General (LTR / LTC) Lord of the Rings Testing/Includes Mega Thread!

[TrainmasterGT]

This is a testing/includes thread. Post pictures using /ci or a text list using /c with what cards you plan to include and what cards you plan to test for both LTR and LTC.​

Including:


Including if Accessible


Want to Test:


Ring Cards?


Unstable Cubicorns:


I may or may not be playing the Ring and Monarch Cards from this list. I don't think I need the extra baggage, but I do like a few of these cards.

What are your plans for this set?

 

[japahn]

Printing two of every card and making a cube. If I ever have time again.

For existing cubes, I rarely make changes before the card have had some time to be played in the wild. But it's a pretty safe bet that I'll use something, some day, because this set looks great.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Yeah I think that's about it.
I'm okay with that, there's a ton of super interesting card here, they're just not quite for me.
It reminds me of the 40k decks (though there's like 300 cards here so you get a lot less quality, pound for pound) where I have a ton to say about random cards in this set, even if I'm not running many of them.

Bowmasters might be too much though, if you play this in response to an opt or whatever you get a free forked bolt out of it PLUS 3/3 worth of stats over 2 bodies. That's a lot. One of the premier cantrips in my format is a 1 mana Tormenting Voice, and I'm not sure you win games where you get Arc Lightning'd while trying to hit your land drops...

 

[Seeker]

Yeah I think that's about it.
I'm okay with that, there's a ton of super interesting card here, they're just not quite for me.
It reminds me of the 40k decks (though there's like 300 cards here so you get a lot less quality, pound for pound) where I have a ton to say about random cards in this set, even if I'm not running many of them.

This is really close to both my include list and my opinions about the set. Big fan of it both flavor-wise and design-wise and also I only really want three to four cards of it for my cube.


hits over 2/3 of my creatures so there's no way I'm leaving it out

and maybe also

and finally retire ol' Windbrisk Heights.

 

[Chris Taylor]

This is really close to both my include list and my opinions about the set. Big fan of it both flavor-wise and design-wise and also I only really want three to four cards of it for my cube.


hits over 2/3 of my creatures so there's no way I'm leaving it out

and maybe also

and finally retire ol' Windbrisk Heights.

TBH I was this close to what I was considering. I'm leaving scolding on the wayside because I'm not sure blue needs this in my cube, and I'm not actually convinced Tirith is that good.

Edit fuck it I'm gonna cut some duplicate cantrip for Stern Scolding, it counters snapcaster.
Someone tag me in a month when a normal Minas Tirith is like 30$

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Bowmasters already sitting at €30. Card is cracked!



Plenty of interesting designs. Not sure if I'll ever update my cube again, but if so, here's a shortlist for me!

 

[Seeker]

I'm not actually convinced Tirith is that good.

...
Someone tag me in a month when a normal Minas Tirith is like 30$

I don't think it's that good! But I do think the combo of sometimes coming in untapped and only requiring two attackers outweighs the difference in power between three-mana card draw and a single two-mana free spell. Could easily be wrong. Maybe I just switch back. Definitely like a 1.5 on the luckypaper 1-3 spectrum.

 

[Zoss]

For Minas Tirith, I don't know if it has to be particularly efficient to be good. I see it as a card that aggro decks only activate when they're out of gas and need just another card to close things out, and at that point the efficiency doesn't matter all that much. It also helps disguise a combat trick, which is a feature I'm interested in.

 

[Mown]

Will try to include

Reprieve is in until white gets a more complicated counterspell-suite to play around with.
Fall of Gil-Galad is the only Saga out of the set I care about, very mini-game esque and gives more value to protection spells.
Lotho is another mini-game card that cares about card sequencing, so it's in. I've been looking for another WB card anyway.

Would have liked to include

Elvish Mariner is a very cool design I'll have to remember for later, being able to use scry for tempo is very neat. I don't have anywhere close to enough scry density currently though, so something strange will have to happen for it to be worthwhile.
Galadriel is a mechanically cool five-drop, but it's also a five drop, and I don't have much space for those.

Overall an ok set I guess, had higher hopes of getting more worthwhile sagas and double-spell cards.

 

[ellogeyen]

I'm still not sure if I want to add Universe Beyond cards, mostly because I dislike having two kinds of frames in my cube. Maybe they're visuallt close enough though. Chances are new Universe Beyond sets will come out that I like, which would make the decision easier. For no though, these 14 cards at least peaked my interest for the Jeskai Cube:



This set has the most elegant designs in a long time (if we discount being tempted by the ring). I also really like the scry subtheme in the cube and would be looking for a few more of scry effect, would I add these card to the pile.



I've slowly been adding a legendary theme in the cube, and this set feels like it could make it a decent one. In addition to the numerous legendary creatures I could be adding here, Mirror of Galadriel and Great Hall of the Citadel are great signposts for the theme. I like them better than Blackblade Reforged, which feels a little useless without a legendary creature.

 

[ravnic]

As always, I have really trouble to estimate what might actually end up in a sleeve in my cube, but here are some hot takes:



A cool bridge card for tokens, artifacts and lifegain, could very well end up in my cube at some point but no slam dunk include here.



This one ... could actually be a little too good stat-wise? Commander cards often are, but this is cool enough that I want to test it, just maybe not right away.



Well, that fits Rx wildfire/control so incredibly well, I feel like I have to get it in there somehow. The only question is if I cut Starstorm or go up another sweeper.



I love cards and mechanics that can help you comeback and are actually better in some way when you're behind. However, I don't want to increase my mana rock count and I don't want to cut any I have ...

There are more cards that look cool, I love the elegance in many of the designs. However, I was a little harsher on them because of those ugly metallic frames. Aesthetics matter.

 

[MilesOfficial]

Preliminary thoughts so far:

Flowering of the White Tree in for Starnheim Unleashed
Super sweet anthem that both supports my legendary-matters sub-theme (that has a strong core in white aggressive strategies) and token strategies (to a much lesser effect). Starnheim Unleashed is one of two remaining Fortell cards, and both are leaving this cycle. Sadly, no one will miss it but me.

Reprieve in for Recommission
Easy swap, there's a reason this is the favorite card of the set for so many. I like Recommission more than most, which is something I need to be highly picky about in my list.

Minas Tirith in for Cave of the Frost Dragon
Let's get some white card draw going!! Love to support the legendary-matters theme in the color, too.

Rivendell in for Behold the Multiverse
Castle Vantress was always OK but the 4 mana scry was prohibitive enough it never made a difference on the turn you used it. Rivendell's built-in safety valve puts this at a comfortable spot for me.

Stern Scolding in for Ancestral Vision
Hitting 70% of creature cards in a format with a counter is not a bad way to spend one mana.

Rapacious Guest in for Desecration Demon
I think my black section has enough love for sacrificing things and artifacts that this may end up an interesting card. The floor on it isn't embarrassing either.

Orcish Bowmasters in for Sheoldred
Again, not much needs to be said about the Bowmasters. This swap is going to be silly, because the reason I'm cutting Sheoldred is because I haven't actually been able to find her yet for a price I like, an issue that will be much worse with the Bowmasters.

Moria Marauder in for Pyrokenesis
Could be neat. Always a fan of double-strikers at 2 mana, and I've got enough equipments and counters running around for this to be a real beater, even if the double-pip mana cost is unpleasant.

Gimli of the Glittering Caves in for Legion Warboss
Double strikers are always worth consideration, especially when they have a built-in way to grow. I love to support my legendary-matters sub-theme so brazenly, and Gimli will also land you a pair of treasure tokens if unblocked, supporting some neat synergies across archetypes.

The Shire in for Survival of the Fittest
The Shire is just fine, but Survival is above the rate for the cube, and is one of the few remaining tutors around. It might come back in, but it's always been "one of the best cards in cube" and I'm happy to give that title to others for a moment.

Delighted Halfling in for Wall of Roots
Wall of Roots was still in here?

Arwen, Weaver of Hope in for Kazandu Mammoth
Arwen seems legitimately good, and Kazandu Mammoth has never been drafted earlier than 13th.

Entish Restoration in for Nightpack Ambusher
I'll take a better Cultivate, sure!

Many Partings in for Mirri's Guile
One of my favorite cards in the set. Food tokens are such a broad and exciting upgrade to a nearly-playable-on-its-own base card

Meriadoc Brandybuck in for Mayor of Avabruck
I think Meriadoc will generate tokens a heck of a lot more frequently than the Mayor, and the tension of blocking or not blocking will make for good gameplay with this guy. As I continue to find novel ways to support tokens in G, things like this make it easier.

The Balrog of Moria in for Falkenrath Aristocrat
One of the better cards in the set, flavor, art, and mechanic-wise. Takes Gandalf down with him if he dies, is not totally unreasonable to hardcast and worthwhile to do so, and for reanimator decks, he does everything you'd want a finisher to do. A delight.

Merry, Esquire of Rohan in for Jor Kadeen, First Goldwarden
"Legends-matter!" I shout from a rooftop.

Riders of Rohan in for Ajani Vengeant
Forth Eorlingas! may be the better RW card from this set, but I'm not terribly interested in the Monarch mechanic these days, and Riders of Rohan seems sweet. Ajani's getting a bit old for cube, and his typical turn is a kind of mana disruption I'd rather you have to build your deck around to exploit.

Samwise Gamgee in for Shalai, Voice of Plenty
Samwise is probably below the typical power-level of my cube, but I love any experiment that lowers overall CMC, and it's a neat card that works with several supported strategies, curving nicely into Chatterfang, Squirrel General or Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second.

Flame of Anor in for Electrolyze
I just think it's neat!

Relic of Sauron in for Emiel the Blessed
The first in a series of replacing colored cards with colorless, since I'd like to shift the balance slightly. Emiel is too expensive and too uninteresting to my players, and the Relic of Sauron is the best variation of a 4-mana rock we've gotten for my kind of cube.

Horn of Gondor in for Opposition
Opposition is understood and respected by some of the playgroup, but not enough for it to make up for the feelbad the first time you go against it unawares. It's a power-outlier as well, so no harm. The Horn of Gondor is sweet, and may end up being a 3 mana 1/1 too frequently, but that's a floor I can live with for the story equity potential.

Horn of the Mark in for Ashnod's Harvester
Ashnod's Harvester wasn't strong enough in its own draft format (it was fine) but I thought it'd work better for me. It didn't.

Palantir of Orthanc in for Fireblast
Palantir of Orthanc is the kind of punisher card that's win/win enough that it makes for a fun mini-game rather than wasting your mana. Its biggest issue is the number of times people will have to read it to make sense of it in draft prior to playing with it. Fireblast was a bit too much reach for the red decks IMO. They're already the best thing to play.

Great Hall of the Citadel in for Atraxa's Fall
Weakest inclusion of the list, I know I'd be better with Hero's Plaza anyways but this is a test for if people dig this strategy.

Shire Terrace in for Sword of Light and Shadow
Always need more fair fixing and fewer swords.

Mount Doom in for Lavaclaw Reaches
Now that's a bingo!

My top 3 cards of the set:


Top cards I'm watching:


Overall, a lovely set. Interesting mechanics, cards, and flavor. I've got some quarrels with the art direction, the overly-literal references (see the kill count cards), and a few other things, but for a Lord of the Rings set, it delivers pretty well.

Going to drain my bank account on a few of the box toppers, and will be picking up a dozen or so "art upgrades" from the commander decks as well.

 

[inscho]

Certain:
Reprieve: Not much to add here. Just a great card. My favorite of the set.

Near Certain:
None

Uncertain but Interested:
Minas Tirith: White utility lands are a competitive slot with Cave of the Frost Dragon and Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire. Not sure if this nudges either out, but I do like that it incentivizes aggro in a way the others don't. I used to run Windbrisk Heights for years.
Stern Scolding: Really good card. Counters 78.3% of my cube's creatures which is 40.6% of my cube's spells for one mana. I haven't really felt like my counter suite needed improvement so I need to think on this more.
Orcish Bowmasters: Obviously super strong. Just not sure whether it's a productive strong for my environment.
Prince Imrahil the Fair: I'm not in love with my Azorius section, and could see this making the cut. 2cmc token producers are much better than 3cmc ones, and I'm always looking for excuses to cut Monastery Mentor.
Cast into the Fire: Contemplating this over Abrade. Exile is super relevant in my format.

Interested but Doubtful:
Many Partings
Barrow-Blade
Rise of the Witch-King
The Shire
Frodo, Determined Hero
The Balrog of Moria
Horn of the Mark

 

[Nanonox]

For my MP cube

Including



I like so many of these White cards!
Reprieve is a great tempo spell that can be even more effective than Remand in a color with aggressive starts.

I like the play patterns of Minas Tirith. Either you commit two creatures to the board and activate it so as to not overextend or you use it when your hand is depleted and draw cards. Two creatures shouldn't be too difficult in White with all the token producers running around. It will be replacing Emeria's Call which rarely got played at 7 mana. It's not as good of a fit for controlling decks, but they don't need the help as much.

My cube is all about making use of random game pieces and boy do both Samwise Gamgee and Farmer Cotton deliver! Foods aren't the most exciting artifacts, but they still buff Urza's Saga constructs and Cranial Plating just fine. They also fit nicely into the GW grindy decks by virtue of gaining life and Samwise also recurring specific targets. Getting back the aforementioned Urza's Saga is my new goal!
This might be the final push I needed to add Academy Manufactor, since now decks of all colors (minus Black) can hope to abuse it.

Forth Eorlingas! fills a role I've been wanting for a while: a Boros card that pushes people into the color combination. It's not that Boros decks aren't good, it's that guild cards aren't splashy enough to attract a drafter. Scalable tokens with haste and card advantage via the Monarch mechanic is a slam dunk for my cube.

Testing

Many Partings: Decent little card that reduces variance, but not sure I like it better than Traverse the Ulvenwald or Abundant Harvest.

Denethor, Stone Seer: Cheap Monarch card, but not really in the color that I want. Blue has enough card draw via other means.

Lotho, Corrupt Shirriff: Cheap ramp spell that rewards play patterns I enjoy. The downside of having 3 other players that will try to trigger it probably makes it too dangerous. Still, if that Manufactor is coming in, then maybe Lotho should accompany it!

Prince Imrahil the Fair: Speaking of play patterns I enjoy. 2 mana is a great spot for these cards and churning out tokens isn't too difficult. I am considering a human archetype and this might just make it in. I'd like more Brainstorm effects to trigger it more reliably on my opponents turns.

Rise of the Witch-king: I really like the open-endedness of the card. Any permanent is really sweet and affecting the whole board is powerful too. The issue is that I have so many Golgari cards that I want to run. This might not be unique enough despite being there on power level.

Wizard's Rockets: I already break singleton on Chromatic Star (3 copies), this is nice because I could run singleton again if I chose alongside Terrarion.

I left out a bunch of archetype dependent cards that are really good IMO (Théoden, King of Rohan and Flowering of the White Tree for example), but I am not sure if I will include them just yet.

 

[Mown]

The Balrog of Moria in for Falkenrath Aristocrat
One of the better cards in the set, flavor, art, and mechanic-wise. Takes Gandalf down with him if he dies, is not totally unreasonable to hardcast and worthwhile to do so, and for reanimator decks, he does everything you'd want a finisher to do. A delight.

Don't remember this card getting revealed. I'm still looking for the perfect cheat target (artifact creature that doesn't end the game if it untaps while still offering meaningful board impact, and still feels somewhat worth the setup if immediately answered), and this doesn't hit all of those boxes, but it's also a big-turn enabler, so it gets some leeway there, and I like the haste. Wish it didn't exile itself though.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Don't remember this card getting revealed. I'm still looking for the perfect cheat target (artifact creature that doesn't end the game if it untaps while still offering meaningful board impact, and still feels somewhat worth the setup if immediately answered), and this doesn't hit all of those boxes, but it's also a big-turn enabler, so it gets some leeway there, and I like the haste. Wish it didn't exile itself though.

A little off-topic, but have you considered Phyrexian Fleshgorger? To remove it immediately, the opponent has to pay 7 life, which is a pretty substantial cost. It also has both lifelink and menace, meaning that it creates a big life swing when it connects and usually kills multiple creatures even if was blocked. Plus, it can also just be a 3/3 for which is a fine rate if you need to stabilize your board quickly.

 

[Mown]

I can assure you I have considered every creature with a mana value of at least 6 or higher. Fleshgorger and other Ward threats are pretty awkward, since I have double Animate Dead. And the reason I do like Animate Dead is that it gives a broader range of answer if you power out a threat early (like Prismatic Ending or Cankerbloom), plus it's also kind of broken mana-wise, which makes it more viable to use fairly, but it does also create some strict limitations on what the upper limit can look like.

And while I really like prototype as a keyword and had high hopes for it, I think Fleshgorger would also too often be played just as an aggressively costed french vanilla, and the blink interaction seems generally very low-commitment with extremely high reward to boot considering how efficient of a creature it is.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Also you get a little minigame of trying to flicker it to unlock ITS TRUE POTENTIAL
This has legit become a subtheme in white for me

 

[shamizy]

Just 2 cards going into the main cube along with 1 land for the ULD pile. Reprieve and Stern Scolding have obvious homes as supplemental support for existing archetypes with clean designs while Minas Tirith is an interesting land option in W for the ULD that has additional play to it. I'm not sure how good it is, but it's going to be a neat option to have available with the vertical growth I've got in my cube allowing for W/x to pressure without going too wide. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for alternate arts for both Scolding and Reprieve in future printings moving forward because I am just not a fan of either.

As long as The One Ring isn't suddenly found within a few days of release, I expect the foils for this set to end up dirt cheap with the amount of Collector product that's going to be opened. I'll likely play the prerelease, maybe a Collector Booster as a lottery ticket, but then just wait for super cheap singles a month after release. I'm MUCH more excited for various singles in EDH and maybe getting around to building a themed Sauron deck, but for cube it's pretty slim pickings this time around. There's just not a whole lot that really adds anything to my environment.

 

[Zoss]

Certain adds:


I genuinely like all the lands. Bard-Dur stands out as being potentially problematic and Rivendell and The Shire might be too weak. I'm curious to see if Mines of Moria might be shockingly good as a twist on Castle Garenbrig, another land that ramps you by a tiny bit and was thought of as terrible when it first dropped.

Reprieve and Rockets are site favorites for obvious reasons.

Theoden is a fun twist on WR and synergizes well with a bunch of things WR already wants to be doing like equipping critters or making tokens. I'm also not in love with many of the other options; maybe he'll round out Angelfire Ignition, Adult Gold Dragon, and Baird, Argivian Recruiter?

Certain trials:


Trickery is especially nice for me because I waffle between wanting my main cube to be a 2-MV counter cube and a 3-MV counter cube. I've settled on keeping the 2-MV counters either crappy, 1-mana tax spells (Jwari Disruption, Censor) or hard to cast (Counterspell, Narset's Reversal) and with the 3-MV counters having a little juice (Mirrorshell Crab, Disallow), but there aren't as many of the latter as I'd like. Saruman's Trickery should help address that while keeping my creature count up.

Arwen is a sweet GW card that directly promotes aggressive strategies and has an on-board trick. She might be too much, but I'm happy to try her out until proven otherwise.

Denethor provides really good role compression of enabler and payoff, though I'm worried about how defensive his stat line is.

I like anthems and I like CC cards, so Flowering is a must for me. It's interesting that this sparks joy but Sylvan Anthem does not. If I enjoy how this card plays out, I'll likely try the latter, it just seems rough for an anthem to pull its weight without additional effects a la Wedding Invitation or Benalish Marshal.

Rally is a nice sidegrade to any of the token makers and haste probably puts it over the top. I don't know if this will stay, but I've been considering stuff like this and Mogg War Marshal for a while.

Looking for an excuse to try:


Merry has both the Partner text and leads to very stalled games, both of which are negatives--the former is simply a distraction and the latter is something I need to guard against as I'll tend towards very large, stall-prone environments if given free reign. However, he'd guide drafters towards an entirely new deck, GW artifacts, which would be a plus.

Samwise falls in a similar camp, but I like his gameplay a lot better as it involves net subtraction of permanents from the board. He also doesn't have Partner, so I'm overall a lot closer to testing him than Merry.

Fall of Gil-Galad might be fun, incredibly mediocre, or overwhelmingly powerful, and I can't tell which. It reads like a kicked Inscription of Abundance, whcih I've nixed from my environment for being too strong. I'll wait to see if this sees play anywhere else to judge.

If Gandalf had more targets in legendary creatures or artifacts I'd rate him more highly, but as it stands I think people won't evaluate him correctly (i.e. as being a weird Restoration Angel rather than as Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines).

Gimli, like Merry, hints at a new kind of deck in his color combo, I'm just not sure if GR sac/reckless aggro is any good. If there were more Ball Lightnings in Green I'd rate him more highly.

Legolas is, again, a chance to make a Green deck a Heroic deck in very short order. He probably takes way too long to set up, but I'd love to be surprised.

King of the Oathbreakers is very resilient while still allowing some counterplay, which I love.

Watchdogs have really funny art--they're just good dogs!--and can act as weird Green aggro pieces that give drafters something to do with the food tokens that can pop up randomly and don't have much use outside of combo and control decks.


Art upgrades:


Dunno why Night's Whisper isn't showing the requested art, but it's much better than the previous one.

 

[ravnic]

Will the commander deck cards be available in foil? Because then I would make this art upgrade:

 

[Zoss]

I love the quality of light in that one, but is it just me or does she look uncomfortably like Taylor Swift?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I love the quality of light in that one, but is it just me or does she look uncomfortably like Taylor Swift?

I don't know if it's just you, but I don't see it.

 

[LadyMapi]

Nah, I can see it too — turns out Taylor Swift is a) blonde and b) had a similar haircut at one point (2019-ish?). If you look at the elf more closely, though, the similarity disappears, and the face just looks like Ye Olde Generic Fantasy Elf Lady.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

She looks more like Zelda to me.