General (MKM, MKC, CLU) Murders at Karlov Manor Testing/Includes Mega Thread!

[Velrun]

This is interesting, but makes them more desirable for the player that is in the right guild/shard rather than to everybody. Maybe this is also not a downside though

I agree

And the mini game of guessing (and trying to trick your opponent into guessing wrong) is only possible if there are enough disguise cards so that opponent cannot guess correct every time but also few enough disguise cards that it is possible to guess correct sometimes. I’m kind of just repeating what @Onderzeeboot was writing

 

[TrainmasterGT]

If you include only the 10 bicolor ones, there are (near) zero mind games involved if your opponent is on two colors. The only “game” involved then is whether people remember what each disguise card does.

This isn't actually how the common disguise creatures play in limited. At least as far as Karlov Manor is concerned, almost all of the two-color disguise creatures are playable in any deck with at least one of their colors, allowing each card to go into 7/10 possible two-color decks. The power level of the group isn't entirely consistent, with Dog Walker being the best by far and Rakish Scoundrel being pretty mediocre. Let me put it this way– in a Cube with 10 mono-color face-down creatures, any given two-color deck could only have four possible face-down cards. By contrast, a two-color deck in a Cube with the 10 gold disguise creatures could play seven possible face-down cards. That's nearly twice as many potential options!

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I'm curious: at a lower power level (let's say pauper cube style), how many disguise cards do you think is the right number to run? Like, I think that running 2-3 has not much sense since they lose a lot of the surprise effect, but do you think that having 10 in a 360 cube (for example, all 10 the bicoloured ones) could be enough to have some mind games like in MKM retail limited?

I think the ten two-color cards are definitely a good place to start when putting together a disguise package for a low-power Cube. However, I think playing more is usually better for face-down creature environments. You probably want to play as many disguise cards as possible to maximize the "mystery" play patterns. A lot of the Karlov Manor disguise cards are "ability morphs" (like Skirk Marauder) as opposed to "size morphs" (like Wooly Loxodon). This means they tend to have a more diverse range of costs to unmorph, and many of them have nice low costs for hard casting. In my opinion, this also makes them more fun to play with, as the advantage of playing something face down is a cool ability and not simply paying for a big creature in multiple installments.

If you're worried about playing too many disguise creatures, a good rule of thumb is to not play more creatures with disguise than you would three-drops in a given color. Since disguising a creature costs , you want players to have that turn open in order to play their face-down card.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Hey wait a minute, these are just keyword counters! I've been bamboozeled!

 

[Velrun]

Hey wait a minute, these are just keyword counters! I've been bamboozeled!

Explain the joke to me?

 

[Chris Taylor]

I mean, I did like suspect because putting menace + can't block on a creature is interesting. I didn't love a lot of the individual card designs, but the text of suspect did hold some appeal, so I tried goat + reasonable doubt above.

But I don't love "put a lifelink counter on target creature", or whatever. Somehow this bypassed my previous decisions, maybe I just really wanted to perma stun someone's wall of omens.