Nanonox's 1vs1 cube

[IanGitax]

Oculus takes from your library; it just triggers on your opponent’s turn.

I also found myself cutting a few unnecessary tempo payoffs recently. The deck is often fine playing more generic threats; the critical density of cheap spells/interaction is usually the harder part to draft in most cubes I’ve tried. You could definitely shave iconoclast if necessary. Delve or pseudo-delve cards like the aforementioned Oculus can also serve as spell velocity payoffs that can be played in other decks more easily.

 

[MilesOfficial]

Like Miles, I've found Fire Nation Occupation to slot easily into various tempo or controlling Esper decks and has me asking do I have too many of this effect
...

S tier

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer: The hybrid mana, the artifact tokens, noncreature trigger and the potential nonsense you can pull off with her minus ability means she is a lock.

Monastery Mentor: Noncreature trigger and scaling tokens means you can close out the game real quick. Rare spell velocity payoff in White.

Stormchaser's Talent: Feels like cheating to have it in this category, but late game it technically works as a spell velocity payoff.

A tier

Third Path Iconoclast: This one shines because of the cheap mana value and the artifact tokens it makes.

Shark Typhoon: Also kind of cheating, but if you ever reach 6 mana you go off. Mostly played for the cantripping token though.

B tier

Young Pyromancer: Being restricted to instants and sorceries makes this one a much narrower payoff. The two mana and single color makes it a lot more appealing though.

Toph, Hardheaded Teacher: Two things holding Toph back are the 4 mana and the fact you have a finite amount of lands. However, it triggers off creatures unlike most of the others. It also animates lands for some landfall shenanigans. I think you need a sacrifice outlet to really go off with her since the lands return to the battlefield giving you landfall triggers and bodies to sacrifice.

Geralf, the Fleshwright Triggers off creatures too, but you need two spells to get going and hopefully considerably more.

Fire Nation Occupation: It's a noncreature itself which these decks value and asks you to play at instant speed for pretty big tokens. The restriction isn't too hard to get around and gives Black a unique take.

Right now I value having Saheeli + Young Pyromancer or Saheeli + Geralf to have a decent Red or Blue base for any color pair to latch onto. What that means though is that if you find yourself in Izzet, you have all of these + Third Path + Vivi + Steelcutter + DRC + Planisphere + Talent + Typhoon. At that point it feels overly supported! Not sure what the solution is. As crazy as it sounds, maybe Third Path Iconoclast isn't needed in Izzet because of all the mono-colored options.

Has anyone else felt this way?

I think Izzet is happy to have this "overly-supported", even in a tighter Cube. It's really a key focus of both of those colors, so I guess it's hard to feel bad about cards that instruct your drafters to make sensible decks, and that play out in a fun way.

Stormchaser's Talent is different enough that it doesn't make this feel oppressive.

Monastery Mentor and Fire Nation Occupation fall into a different category simply because of their color. They're fun expansions of the underlying theme.

By the way, one of the cool things about Toph is earthbending the same land over and over!

 

[Erik Twice]

No, you are not alone! I think Izzet spells is a far more difficult archetype to support than we give it credit for. It has this inherent weakness in that it needs a high density of both creatures and spells and the deck doesn't work without either.

My thoughts:

I tried Saheeli, Sublime Artificier once, but I never actually did anything with it. I don't think I truly get the card, you must rely on that second ability for it to be worth the slot, IMHO.

Stormchaser's Talent, Shark Typhoon. Both of these are good choices but you are right in that they are "cheating". They both slot in slower decks, not in the usual spellsingler deck. Stormchaser is weaker and mana-inefficient, but Shark Typhoon is solid enough that it opens up synergetic possibilities without forcing them. Note that both work well with Replenish if you ever want to run it.

Monastery Mentor is interesting in that it's off-colour but it would be too strong if it weren't. That creates an interesting dynamic and, frankly, it's a top-tier design. Its cost forcing you to tap-out, the lack of haste and trample in the tokens, the geometric damage scaling...it's all a great puzzle. The fact that it's in white keeps it a secondary card in my cube, though.

Third Path Iconoclast. This is what you want Young Pyromancer to be, but it's a UR card so it isn't. Noncreature Pyromancer is what we are all looking for. It goes in and out in my cube. I feel I don't want both and, if push comes to shove, I'll choose the original.

Young Pyromancer is the face of the entire archetype for better or worse. When it works, it's great. When you don't have enough spells or when it gets blown up, it's a waste of cardboard. But it's one of those cards that do work, unlike Third Path Iconoclast, it can feed a BR sacrifice deck, for example.

Haven't played with either Toph or Fire Nation Occupation.

Geralf the Fleshwright feels like a storm win condition, the kind that aren't fully parasitic but still not that useful. Theorically, it can work with creatures, creature Gravecrawler loops or abuse Earthcraft but...I haven't actually used it that way. It seems more of a theorical possibility than a real one.

I think the biggest payoffs you haven't mentioned are the following:



Arcanist is valuable, not just because it's a powerful spell-based card but because it gives you additional triggers for your other creatures. After all, if you run, say, 12 spells, that's only 12 triggers for the entire game! Arcanist gives you more, which is extremely valuable.



Like Arcanist, this is good because it lets you increase that spell density you often lack. It's a cheap creature, too and becomes a 3/3 flyer which is big enough to be a threat with some support.



The original is too weak, but this version is just fun. I like it because it's a pure spells-matter card and with a wholly unique effect, too. It's big enough to justify supporting it. It creates mind games, since it can turn any creature into a 3/3, making it a good early blocker to stave aggro (a bad matchup for Spellslinger decks) or push damage against midrange. It's also great with tokens, which the archetype tends to have around.

it does nothing without you casting spells left and right. But it gives you a unique, powerful payoff for that.

Personally, I think the archetype is increasingly expressed through creatures that invite you to pile up spells but aren't actual "spells matter" cards:

 

[Nanonox]

Oculus takes from your library; it just triggers on your opponent’s turn.

By the way, one of the cool things about Toph is earthbending the same land over and over!

Thanks for the corrections! Reading the card, explains the card still holds true.

I also found myself cutting a few unnecessary tempo payoffs recently. The deck is often fine playing more generic threats;

I’ve noticed this too. An Inti, Gau, Shredder, Kiora, Tersa and others do a good job as long as you have cantrips, removal and counterspells.

Geralf the Fleshwright feels like a storm win condition, the kind that aren't fully parasitic but still not that useful. Theorically, it can work with creatures, creature Gravecrawler loops or abuse Earthcraft but...I haven't actually used it that way. It seems more of a theorical possibility than a real one.

I tend to include Geralf in decks that would want Monastery Mentor. That could be a Storm deck, though that can sometimes be awkward because Geralf is one of your few creatures so is easy to remove. 6 spells in one turn is 20 power worth of zombies, so it can go pretty fast! It can also work in a tempo deck with cheap cantrips where it's basically super Flurry.

I didn’t intend to review all the noncreature payoffs, but Erik’s list looks good. I'm not an Alchemy believer myself, but the Mage is a sweet one if you are. I’ll add this duo of cards that go alongside Stormchaser’s Talent as noncreature threats that scale and trigger your other spells matters payoffs.



These are just perfect. 2 mana is where you want to be with these types of cards as you can easily cast them and follow up with a cheap spell to trigger them immediately. Being equipment goes well with White cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Warden of the Inner Sky, Ethersworn Canonist and Monastery Mentor for a strong tempo shell.

And if you are combo minded, you have to consider



These convert spells into other resources that the right deck/engine can abuse. I personally love these uncapped cards that allow drafters to go nuts in creative ways.

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I am looking once again at my wrath suite in White

Balance
Cataclysm
Spectacular Pileup

While the first two cards are staple level, I am not in love with Pileup. I wanted a simple wrath you can run without having to build around it and the Cycling ability meant you could main deck it more freely. It's purely a control card though and 5 mana isn't always fast enough.

I am looking at these two "wraths" as replacements. Since they aren't hard wraths and have some appeal for aggro, I would like to slot both of them to slightly boost the density.



Avatar's Wrath is the shiny new toy and I think it looks great. In aggressive decks, you can clear blockers for your one big creature, like a worse Parallax Wave. You can also trigger your ETBs, like a worse Parallax Wave. For slower decks, it's either a way to get more ETB triggers or clear the board for a couple of turns. There is talk of combining this with Aven Interrupter in Standard. I was thinking Sphere of Resistance is much more my speed if I wanted to punish Airbending.

A big upside for my cube is the temporary nature of this wrath. I want to have interaction, but not always a Path or STP that exiles something forever. That way you can break up or delay engines getting online, but not permanently answer them.

Split Up is a card I've never played, but seems interesting as getting the most out of it probably takes some planning ahead and setup. It seems tough for the card to be a full wrath effect, but maybe you can surprise an opponent the first time. Barring vehicles/Earthcraft, it's likely a full wrath on a board stall. In a race, you can likely manage to get a one-sided wrath. It's also plenty fine as a cheap two for one in the early game.

Aggro can definitely use wraths (see Parallax Wave in the Vintage cube), but does it need them? I think it's nice to have ways to break board stalls personally, but could be convinced otherwise.

Has anyone tested Split Up?

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Drafted a fun Sultai artifact + counters deck thanks to Proft's and the newly added Pursuit. Lonis and Tracker provide you with a bunch of clues which can fuel both enchantments nicely. Yawgmoth is also a card that helps you get both enchantments going leading to some potential explosive combats. I love these aggro-combo decks that now have new toys to play with.



Erik drafted this Obsessive Pursuit deck which can use Zuran Orb (+ Crucible) and Balance (!!) to sacrifice permanents and grow a creature. Having Nethergoyf, Bloodghast, Lingering Souls and Timeless Dragon as creatures that can "survive" a wrath and then receive the counters is perfect and find extremely cool. That hadn't occurred to me and I think it shows that the card lets drafters get creative in how they want to maximize it.

 

[Erik Twice]

Cori-Steel Cutter is fantastic, I tried it because you included it and it's a fantastic inclusion.

1) Triggers with any spell, not just instant or sorceries.
2) It has a great baseline as a 2/2 Haste, Prowess creature
3) It can trigger two turns in a row to attack with two monks, a 3/3 and a 2/2 with haste.
4) It's not a creature, so it doesn't die too easily. It stays on the table and can create more monks.
5) It has useful minor synergies: It's an artifact, a fetchable equipment,

I would rank it in the top tier over second rate cards like Monastery Swiftspear, Soul-Scar Mage, Harmonic Prodigy, Direfleet Daredevil or Abbot of Keral Keep. In fact, I think it's more solid than Young Pyromancer.

--

I also run Spectacular Pileup, but it is bland. Compared to cards like Cataclysm, Balance or Parallax Wave, it is a complete bore. Sure, it works, but I wonder if there's a better card for the slot.

Like you, I avoid Wrath of God because it's a touch too cheap and overly inconditional. We both run Balance and cheap interaction so it's not a good idea to give white another cheap wipe. But there are fewer options at 5 mana that I like. Many of them don't "work", are too weak or are just anti-synergetic in some way (Exiles creatures, destroys equipment etc.). Fumigate is fine, but it pushes control into safety a bit more often than I would like.

Avatar's Wrath seems awful, to be honest. It's a more complex, less versatile Parallax Wave. Against some decks it will be fine, but, against others, it will just feel terrible. Split Up will act like a Diabolic Edict way too often for my taste.

 

[Dom Harvey]

Split Up is interesting/unique to an extent but it doesn't reliably fill the role you want a sweeper to fill especially in a slow/control deck. I agree that Pileup is uninspiring but there are plenty of options at 5 mana - maybe What Must Be Done?

So many of the good spellslinger payoffs were printed recently and I agree that it's fine to have 'too many' of these since they all have their own quirks and other decks will want them too. I'll echo that any spell >> noncreature spell >>> instant/sorcery when it comes to how well these all coexist; Cutter and Cosmogrand Zenith are all-timers IMO, while Young Pyromancer is clean/iconic but is much harder to support than it looks these days.

 

[Erik Twice]

Wait, you AREN'T running Parallax Wave? You absolutely should, it's a banger. It's not a replacement for a normal wrath, but it's an absolute staple. It's good in aggro, midrange and control, it has a ton of synergies and is both fun to play against and with.

 

[N0oh]

If you don't Parallax your creatures and play Upheaval afterward, why are you even cubing ?

 

[Nanonox]

I also run Spectacular Pileup, but it is bland. [...] But there are fewer options at 5 mana that I like. Many of them don't "work", are too weak or are just anti-synergetic in some way (Exiles creatures, destroys equipment etc.). Fumigate is fine, but it pushes control into safety a bit more often than I would like.

I agree that Pileup is uninspiring but there are plenty of options at 5 mana - maybe What Must Be Done?

Alright, time to go digging for good 5+ mana wraths I guess?



This is actually a really cool suggestion, that I run in another project, but haven't considered for this cube for whatever reason. The actual wrath mode is tricky to maximize because many of the slower decks use artifacts themselves. So it's not just a thoughtless addition. At the same time, the other mode is perfect alongside a Tinker cheat package with stuff like Angel of the Ruins or Bolas's Citadel. The first place my mind went to though if I am being honest is Memory Jar for a White mill win condition.



Similar to the above, minus the artifact destruction. For decks that want a wrath, I think it's easier to have a creature in the GY than in play in the cube. It's also nice to be able to recur an noncreature artifact with What Must be Done.



These two are sweet wraths I'll be avoiding because of the aristocrats deck. Sacrifice is a big part of the cube and having these wipe the board only to die to their Mayhem Devil triggers or whatever is silly. Cataclysm and Balance already sacrifice a lot of permanents, I'd like this slot to avoid doing so if possible.



Removing recursive threats or the option to recur a creature is brutal, as most decks have some GY component. I think the aggro-control matchup is more fun with targeted exile removal and wraths that destroy creatures so there is some possible counterplay on both sides.



Clean wrath, but a little underwhelming.



Instant speed is really nice, but 6 mana isn’t reliable. The other modes aren't relevant enough that I am comfortable adding this.



A one mana sweeper that denies the GY is extremely potent. I love that it gives Scroll Rack and Top more uses. Costing one mana allows you to deploy a threat of your own, but it also risks invalidating aggressive decks too early for too little with no hope of rebuilding.

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So I think Dom hit the nail on the head with his suggestion for a cool 5 mana wrath.

Wait, you AREN'T running Parallax Wave?

If you don't Parallax your creatures and play Upheaval afterward, why are you even cubing ?

I definitely was, but cut it because I think it’s too good. White aggressive decks are already among the best in the cube and Wave invalidates any sort of race. Like not even close (like a suped up Phelia). Then against control, you casually protect your board and nullify wraths or spot removal. I think it’s a sweet card outside of aggressive decks with stuff like Cataclysm and Upheaval as you mention, but aggro can just snowball to victory easily (which is why I was looking at Avatar’s Wrath as an alternative.

Maybe I am overvaluing it though. Or not, but it's fine to have non-threat power outliers to build around. Has the snowballing been an issue for any of you? If not, I'd love to slot it in again (even without the fading reminder text which bothers me).

 

[N0oh]

Well, I love the card but it's indeed either cute in deck that try to do stuff, or utterly broken in the already good wheenie white.