General New Format: Pioneer
- Thread starter Velrun
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Discussing annoying archetypes > Annoying memes
Un an entirely unrelated note: Has the large influx of MtG games (worldwide) per hour with the release of Arena made MtG discussions more focused towards some minor hate for the top tier Standard deck and less about creativity?
In my opinion these are the ones that are so annoying they'll need to be banned:
Cat Combo
Cards to ban: Saheeli Rai, maybe Oath of Nissa.
Aetherworks Marvel
Cards to ban: Aetherworks Marvel, maybe Emrakul, the Promised End.
Teferi Control
Cards to ban: Teferi, Time Raveler.
And here's some which I think some people will find annoying but I think are really fun and will actually be good for the format:
Abzan Enchantress
Siege Rhino Abzan
Mono-Black Devotion
Mono-Red Devotion
Experimental Frenzy
Ral Combo
I think part of the problem is that all of the standard decks throughout the arena era have had to deal with tons of un-fun garbage cards. Remember, arena was starting beta during the last wave of Kaladesh block standard bans.
The other issue is that standard hasn't been in tip-top shape since before Ravnica Allegiance came out. There was that three month period between GRN and RNA release when standard was really healthy, but things devolved from there. Allegiance brought with it Hydroid Krasis and that annoying gate deck. War of the Spark brought with it 36 planeswalkers, which essentially killed most aggro decks until m20 came along and printed stuff for Aggro Vampires. Once Ixalan rotated out, many of the best answers for Planeswalkers and Lands also left the format, leaving us in a world where Oko, Thief of Crowns and Field of the Dead were able to dominate mostly unopposed.
A large part of this issue is that a lot of arena players are people who switched to playing magic from another online video game like Hearthstone, Overwatch, or Fortnite. In those games, if something is obviously broken, the devs can just adjust the power level with the click of a button. Magic can't do that since the paper element of the game is so huge that errataing cards isn't feasible. Therefore, these people who are used to broken stuff being immediately nerfed get upset when Magic can't reasonably do the same.
TL;DR: Standard hasn't been as good as it could have been since arena came out. Many new arena players are used to games where content can be easily adjusted after launch, so they get upset when WOTC can't deal with stuff immediately.
I'd say start with MTGO if you want to play with cards that are likely to be banned without necessarily risking huge monetary losses, and start with paper if you simply want to play the format. I'm doing the latter, since cards won't be getting cheaper in paper.
It looks like this is the most powerful core in Pioneer at the moment:
Although this is spicy
Although this is spicy
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Those go together in the same deck, if needed...
It looks like this is the most powerful core in Pioneer at the moment:
Although this is spicy
I'd actually be happy if they ban Nykthos because then I wouldn't need to spend an extra 100 bucks to make a green-based ramp deck. Knowing WOTC they'll do something dumb and ban the Llanowar Elves variants or the Leyline.
I still think Teferi, Time Raveler should be banned- he makes control decks too good and all other counterspell decks unplayable.
Update: The mad men banned Leyline of Abundance because they "think Nykthos could help add future diversity to the format."
There goes my 3 dollars
...
Also, Felidar Guardian and Oath of Nissa got banned too. I still want a Teferi ban, but there's always next week!
There goes my 3 dollars
...Also, Felidar Guardian and Oath of Nissa got banned too. I still want a Teferi ban, but there's always next week!
Leyline of Abundance is a shitty design so I won't miss it.
i'm mad about Leyline of Abundance because it doesn't work with Seton, Krosan Protector the way I want it to for EDH. Get it out of here!!!
Sure.
I do not think highly of the whole Leyline mechanic. The whole idea behind it is that you can get a enduring effect for free if you have it in your initial hand. Free spells are already questionable but making them free based on the luck of the draw is kind of dumb.
In practice, they are cards that do not lead to better or more interesting games. If you get them out, you have a pretty big leg-up. If you don't, you have an overpriced piece of cardboard. It's a mechanic that promotes blow-outs and "can't do anything" games.
I mean, if you start with Leyline of Abundance on the board, your Llanowar Elves turn into Sol Ring. You pretty much get twice as much mana from your mana dorks for "free". Or, alternatively, you get a dead card in your hand and hope not to have the board wiped by the time you cast it. Neither is very fun.
And while this isn't true of LoA, the fact that most Leylines are free hate cards leads Magic to a very dull place.
It does, but as a Legacy Storm player, I gotta respect the safety valve they place on formats where all-in combo decks have to have interaction, and you can defend yourself against a glass cannon t1 combo deck like Belcher or SI on the draw. If it weren't for leyline of sanctity, belcher would be a far more annoying deck than it is, which I think is great.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Both sides of this are problems
Belcher is bad game design (Which you're allowed to find fun!) but leylines are also, even if they keep belcher in check.
It might be better, but I kinda just wish WotC would stop messing with free spells altogether. I'm not sure there's a time where it hasn't burned them.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Once Upon a Time and Land Grant are powerful but acceptable free spells, and the Massacre cycle was fine as well.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'd argue once is too powerful.
Also seriously, massacre? A free sweeper?
Also seriously, massacre? A free sweeper?
I didn't play back then, but getting your creatures repeatedly Submerged must have not been very fun. I mean, free hate-spells sounds...painful. Massacre is brutal, dropping a sweeper and keeping a counterspell up must be a hard move!
By the way, playing Stasis and seeing your opponent carefully play his goblins for a lethal win only to tap them all with Ensnare is hilarious. Well, for me it was, but I was the Stasis player.
PD: I love Stasis. And Smokestack. And blowing up lands. If you ever see me complain about combo or oppresive cards is because I've played too much with them to be able to defend them =p
Massacre is only free if two very specific conditions are met. I'd hardly call that too good.
I think once is only too powerful in the context of some constructed formats. It's perfectly reasonable in Cube and EDH.
Eric Twice
You will probably LOVE this Time Sidewalk from Wizards’ testing pile that will be released with the Mythic Boosters
It hasn’t released yet so I won’t spoil in this thread but you can find it on MythicSpoilers by clicking here:
(SPOILER ALERT!)
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/my1/cards/timesidewalk.html
You will probably LOVE this Time Sidewalk from Wizards’ testing pile that will be released with the Mythic Boosters
It hasn’t released yet so I won’t spoil in this thread but you can find it on MythicSpoilers by clicking here:
(SPOILER ALERT!)
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/my1/cards/timesidewalk.html