General Non Blue Control in Cube

Title more or less says it all, does anyone have any hot tips for making these sorts of decks work in cube?

I've certainly played my share of real control decks and things that can be equated to control decks in constructed formats that didn't have any blue cards but they seem to show up a lot less in my last year or so of drafting.

By Colour:
Black can certainly be a reasonable substitute with it's access to gas, inevitable threats, sweet removal and ability to interact with spells / the hand.

Green sometimes gets close if you have access to seriously exciting filtering with great use of top or library and it sports a whole host of threats that are sweeper proof. Always having a land drop is also a lot more interesting in control decks than many other types so those bonus basics get a little more value, but god do people fight over the good acceleration and you are almost guaranteed to be leaning on elves in a lot of cubes. It always seemed like greens biggest strength as a control colour was that I felt like exciting 4+ mana spells were more or less green cards. Things like Ajani V seemed like an easy fit. But god does it ever have a hard time interacting outside of hatebears (guh) and bramblecrush type stuff.

White just kills stuff and has impressive plays. I'm not sure this gets you there because wraths are just not a reliable source of card advantage in cube and god do white cards want to be drawn at opportune times, something you have very little control over if you aren't playing blue. White control decks are often forced to rely on the fact that off drop baneslayer (etc) is better than whatever your opponent throws on top the board and that really doesn't make up for how often you are not drawing live.

I play Red in a lot of control decks but I find the cards are pretty contested and many of the ones that are not being scooped up by everyone are the cards that only make their way into one or two decks that aren't control decks. I know wildfire is on the tip of everyone's tongue right now, and it's a good point, but I don't see that deck come together as often as I think I should and it often relies on blue cards to make work or mana rocks, that seem like they get scooped up like the lightning bolts I was complaining about earlier. It's a little more interactive though, but mainly in that red spells are great at taking time away from your opponent, be that removing his mana or killing him with your removal. How is everyone finding their Chandras?

Thanks Mates!
 

CML

Contributor
probably just add more fixing to see how the colors mix and match in a control shell?
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Thanks for the input guys!
Anotak, what do your non blue control decks usually look like though? What do you find they hinge on?
I know every colour has great removal and access to extra cards in a broader sense, but I'm really looking for draw fixing, cards that keep you ahead on relevant cards and ways to interact that are not mainly creature removal and are kinda value / tempo advantageous.

Wrath proof cards that generate advantage over time are also a plus.

OCPunisher's post was great! Thanks for the input.
 
in my old cube i 3-0'd with

Rb Control










this deck 2-1'd but only lost in finals because of a misplay, i was thinking his rakdos cackler could block my lethal swing. the blue source is for fire // ice and turn // burn and some sideboard cards i cant remember

monored control










edit: i wrote this before i saw lucres post hmmm
 
Staff and kite are some of the most interesting cards I'm seeing. I think most Cube Curators (TM) would find those a little too durdly though.

On the subject of non blue control and the subject of faithless looting:
Looting cards + loam or crucible are one of my favourite ways of accomplishing this.
Scroll Rack also is up there for me.
 
I like staff of nin! It is a little durdly but I like it. A fair tinker target if you run it.
I like icy manipulator effects (including maze of ith) in on blue control as you're usually trying to get card advantage from wrath effects.
Worthwhile looking at your non blue finishers as well and seeing how control they are. Obzedat was pretty mean in my last black white control deck.
 
i'm waiting on someone to meet me so i'm just going to type and then hit post as soon as he gets here so this may not be the most cohesive post
kite and staff are strong and perhaps they are durdly but i think it is worth it if you want to support this kind of archetype.
for reference the deck i almost beat with the 2-1 deck was

naya zoo







which is not a durdly slow deck in any sense

trading post is one of the most important cards for an archetype like this because when you dont have filtering as good as blue you can turn excess cards into "gain 4 life" or whatever, trading post is sick. a lot of making the red control in particular work comes from making traditionally aggro cards function in a different role, like discarding chandra's phoenix to faithless or post and then pinging w/ chandra. using the phoenix as a repeating blocker. shard phoenix is similarly powerful except its also a sweeper, which is sort of ridiculous. pre-damage on the stack it was a monstrosity. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/rb63 ctrl-f for "forbidden phoenix" if you want to see a sweet constructed deck. but yeah, oblivion stone and chaos warp and beast within and other things like that help a lot for the cards you won't have a normal answer to. the thing is that the durdling mentioned is sort of needed and its decision dense because you have to decide to search for a land w/ kite or play your things and etc. and in lategame like i said its good inevitability. you're going to be getting a lot of your card advantage from 2-for-1s from arc trail and friends too. the thing that makes playing it with red pretty uniquely strong is that in many matchups you'll spend some time durdling with card advantage and pingers then suddenly your opponent eats 10 points of burn from your hand. trading post helps w/ getting back shrine of burning rage too for this. i ended up cutting shrine from that cube for being too good, it and precursor golem were the best first pick cards hands down. ok gotta go
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Only partially on topic (someone did ask about Chandra), but I don't think of Chandra, Pyromaster as a control card. Since putting this card in the +0 has never been used. The +1 pushes damage through like a fiend and people need to deal with that or they just lose, either to the damage or if they remove your creature, the ult. Even the +0 seems better for aggressive decks to get a new threat their current one gets dealt with before the ult is attainable. I don't know how she plays in constructed, but I wouldn't include her as a card for supporting control. She messes with control by neutralizing the Incidental Blockers and doing damage at the same time.

Maybe she is good in control and its just never happened, but other decks will be wanting the card for more nefarious purposes.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I'll read this later, but I have used Chandra's +0 a ton in cube, and it's a pretty enjoyable ability. I do agree that it doesn't slot very cleanly into a control shell.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Speaking of durdly cards...



I added this to my cube recently, after Goldenpineapple reported it was too durdly for him and was among his least favourite cards ever. MUST DURDLE HARDER

I know every colour has great removal and access to extra cards in a broader sense, but I'm really looking for draw fixing, cards that keep you ahead on relevant cards and ways to interact that are not mainly creature removal and are kinda value / tempo advantageous.

Wrath proof cards that generate advantage over time are also a plus.

Planeswalkers?
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I'll read this later, but I have used Chandra's +0 a ton in cube, and it's a pretty enjoyable ability. I do agree that it doesn't slot very cleanly into a control shell.

I agree it probably is, but literally every situation when she has come down this has been the thought process

"I can stun his blocker and get in 4 from my creatures, plus one more from Chandra while ticking towards the ult, or I could look at a card. A card could be anything! If its the right one, it might even do 5 dam. . . wait a second. . . +1 and swing."
 
Yeah I'm kinda interested in alternate sources of gas and proactive control decks.
I think if you are gonna not be blue, you need to have a certain amount of removal that can do more than one job and you need to have pretty consistent access to whatever it is you do well.

Faithless Looting + Journeyer's Kite sounds like a lot of fun.
 

CML

Contributor
Lucas: again, Forbid + Loam; (one-sided) joy

Sculler is about as far from an aggro card as it gets, the Orzhov sections can be tough to build because they also suffer from the whole "Gravecrawler-Griselbrand" thing. Lingering Souls is just awesome all the time, though
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
For another example of WBR Control in my cube, there was this list that one guy ran a month or two back. (Just.. ignore the Venser.) Maybe not a shining exemplar of the strategy, but this shows that it's possible here, and someone will try this archetype every now and again.

I Like Planewalkers and Removal, What, Do You Have a Problem With That







 
what does green control look like

what could green control look like

edit:
i also have to say i activated chandra's 0 quite a bit, i think it goes badly in counterspell control but in other control its quite good
 
what does green control look like

what could green control look like

edit:
i also have to say i activated chandra's 0 quite a bit, i think it goes badly in counterspell control but in other control its quite good

I like your questions Anotak! I'd love to explore this more closely! It's also finding controlling synergies between colours too!

I just had an awful idea! Why don't we throw Crystal Ball's ability onto journyer's kite and make life really easy for everyone!?
 
how bad is ulvenwald tracker

well, i knew of all 3 of these decks, i played quite a bit of jund in that standard actually. I always thought of it just being a very slight support color mostly for farseek and multicolor removal spells that border on being able to be completely non-green. i guess thragtusk helped too. i notice flash creatures are a big deal in this too i guess.

lifegain and ramp and flash creatures are nice and all but im sure theres more that could be done w/ greens slice of the pie to form control strategies

I just had an awful idea! Why don't we throw Crystal Ball's ability onto journyer's kite and make life really easy for everyone!?
just both abilities separately? that'd be sweet
 

CML

Contributor
what about primal hunter that dude has 3 symbols

i think green control just makes some mana for you to control people with
 
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