Onderzeeboot's Khans of Alara WUBGR Cube

how have you liked
?
Seems like a pretty sweet finisher for a long-game deck in red, and Moltensteel Dragon may be taking a well-deserved retirement. is the ability impactful enough even through removal?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
how have you liked
?
Seems like a pretty sweet finisher for a long-game deck in red, and Moltensteel Dragon may be taking a well-deserved retirement. is the ability impactful enough even through removal?
Sorry, no data on this card yet. It replaced Crater Hellion when I added big Chandra. On paper it looks like a desirable card for control-oriented red decks, and it has been picked on CT in those decks, so I guess I will find out once I get to organizing a new draft :)
 
Out of curiosity, have you ever considered dropping the true colorless theme and just converting the specific Eldrazi cards you like to colored versions? Given that you're so focused on gold cards and obviously okay with running custom cards that your life as a cube manager would be a lot easier if you just took the cool effects you like from true colorless Eldrazi and made them colored custom cards.

They'd probably need to be gold in many cases since they seem to do things outside of normal mono-colored, but again you're already pushing multicolor as a strong theme, so they would be easy to slot in. This would also mean you no longer need to square the circle of making dual lands that also provide colorless. For example, Thought-Knot Seer at {2}{B}{U} would be a sweet card that fits the color pie.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Out of curiosity, have you ever considered dropping the true colorless theme and just converting the specific Eldrazi cards you like to colored versions? Given that you're so focused on gold cards and obviously okay with running custom cards that your life as a cube manager would be a lot easier if you just took the cool effects you like from true colorless Eldrazi and made them colored custom cards.

They'd probably need to be gold in many cases since they seem to do things outside of normal mono-colored, but again you're already pushing multicolor as a strong theme, so they would be easy to slot in. This would also mean you no longer need to square the circle of making dual lands that also provide colorless. For example, Thought-Knot Seer at {2}{B}{U} would be a sweet card that fits the color pie.

May I kindly link you to this post, dated April 4, 2016, and this post, dated April 5, 2016? Fist pump! ;)

In the end, I decided to go the other way, and designed some more colorless cards, like the Bloodbraid Elf for colorless cards.

The very first idea that popped into my head is having a {c} generating land with Land A cycling, and Land B cycling, maybe for 1 hybrid mana A/B

The tricycle lands I designed a few weeks ago played really nice in the few game I have played with them. Definitely happy with them so far, in fact I think I might have "solved" my search for a second colorless land. So, thanks again Sigh for thinking along there!

Bluff Ruins.full.jpg

Also, I have finally made room for the two white "draw smoothers" I made for Chris Taylor, and holy moly is Savvy Trader an AWESOME card! If you run customs, plaaaaaaaay it! (I know you already do Safra, you were way ahead of me! :))

Savvy Trader.full.jpg
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
You get to see the top three before you pick the card from hand, right?
You reveal them at the same time, so I don't think so. This is a really helpful question though, because even if it works as intended (i.e. you choose a card from your hand first), it's easy to avoid the confusion by switching the order of words. I'll reword it to "..., reveal a card from your hand and the top three cards of your library. ..."
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
oh man I misread that.

Now mind you, savannah lions + draw smoothing seems a little good, but I'm willing to give the effect a shot. Check out this post over in the custom cards thread to see what I've come up with :p
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Taking a hard look at insular keywords, because the fewer of those are in a cube, the easier it is on the drafters. I also think the cube will feel more consistent with less keywords and more repeats among supported keywords. So, let's first make a list of undersupported keywords...

Cards in italics are customs, and should almost definitely go if it's only one hit, as I don't think it's worth it to introduce new keywords, and thus complexity, with my own designs. This is a hard one though, because there's definitely some favorites in there, like the white Mogg War Marshal that makes human tokens. It's great with Champion of the Parish and Smokestack, but it's the only creature with echo, a mechanic I don't even like, in the whole cube!

One instance
level up: Student of Warfare
battle cry: Rooftop Sentry
echo: Thraben War Marshal
outlast: Abzan Falconer
awaken: Clutch of Currents > shit, found another instance...
flip cards: Nezumi Graverobber
exploit: Sidisi, Undead Vizier
split cards: Life // Death
renown: Goblin Glory Chaser > Monastry Swiftspear
unleash: Gore-House Chainwalker > Borderland Marauder
bloodthirst: Stormblood Berserker > Immobilizer Eldrazi
escalate: Collective Defiance
proliferate: Volt Charge
convoke: Stoke the Flames
delirium: Gnarlwood Dryad
bestow: Boon Satyr
affinity: Umoru, the Earth Enraged
shroud: Lightning Greaves
exalted: Qasali Pridemage
persist: Kitchen Finks
retrace: Worm Harvest
dethrone: Dack's Duplicate
cascade: Etherium-Horn Sorcerer

Two instances
bolster: Elite Scaleguard and Dromoka, the Eternal
hideaway: Windbrisk Heights, Shelldock Isle
fading: Parallax Wave, Tangle Wire
delve: Dig Through Time, Tasigur, the Golden Fang
madness: Asylum Visitor, From Under the Floorboards
converge: Painful Truths, Radiant Flames
ferocious: Crater's Claws, Heir of the Wilds
monstrosity: Polukranos, World Eater, Fleecemane Lion
landfall: Undergrowth Champion, Invigorating Overgrowth
fight: Epic Confrontation, Dromoka's Command
scavenge: Dreg Mangler, Varolz, the Scar-Striped
meld: Hanweir Garrison, Hanweir Battlements

Three instances
investigate: Bygone Bishop, Declaration in Stone, Tireless Tracker
evoke: Reveillark, Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw
raid: Bloodsoaked Champion x2, War-Name Aspirant
dredge: Darkblast, Life from the Loam, Shambling Shell
dash: Lightning Berserker, Zurgo Bellstriker, Goblin Heelcutter
living weapon: Spark of Redemption, Mindcarver, Bonehoard

Other
evolve: Cloudfin Raptor x2, Experiment One x2 > keep all four or keep none
hexproof: Sphinx of the Final Word, Fleecemane Lion, Narset, Enlightened Master > none of it spelled out
double strike: four hits, among them the only level up creature Student of Warfare
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I know there's been a lot of talk about elegance round these parts lately, but I think we ought to keep in mind that the main reason to add and remove cards from your cube is to make the format better.
Keywords are mostly irrelevant to this. Exploit doesn't make your format any better or worse, thought Sidisi might :p (I think she makes it better, fwiw). The complexity comes from what the cards actually do, which is barely affected by whatever comes before italicised text.

There is some merit in keywords that aren't spelled out, as you mention with hexproof. No matter how many random one off words are on the cards, if your players can actually take in the information by just reading all the cards, then they'll manage.
There are some exceptions like flying and trample, which I don't think hexproof is on the wotc list of? Those cards just seem to need the space.
I wouldn't worry too much. Give your players the tools to learn and shortcut where they can, and they'll manage.

Now that all said, let me offer my thoughts:
One instance
  • level up: Student of Warfare ---> Totally fine. If there's one thing gamers grok, it's leveling
  • battle cry: Rooftop Sentry ---> Should be alright, battle cry is simple. Doesn't this guy have batallion as well? :p
  • echo: Thraben War Marshal ---> I'm just not a huge fan of this effect to be honest. Theres other ways to make 2 dudes, and given this is custom already, I think you can do better than middling time spiral commons. May I suggust "Get em Boys" from my cube? :D
  • outlast: Abzan Falconer ---> Honestly I think this card has outlasted ones of times in my cube, but I still think it's better to run this than a more elegant custom. The power level's basically where I want it to be (Which may or not be true for you) and customs kinda inherently have a bit of inelegance to them, since no matter how amazing your design is, it can't be as natural to even middling cards from a recent-ish set, since people are familiar with those.
  • awaken: Clutch of Currents > shit, found another instance... ---> Yeah fuck awaken. This is blue haste (Which I don't have a problem with where I think it's needed, but this is mostly just power level concerns), unsatisfying kicker because decks here probably aren't 18 land affairs, and the unkicked version of this spell is REALLY bad. Toss em.
  • flip cards: Nezumi Graverobber ---> Eh, I think he's had his time in the sun. It's graveyard hate, but more often then not this is a level up creature where you don't know how many activations you'll need, and the frame is super aggravating. I'd toss it.
  • exploit: Sidisi, Undead Vizier ---> This card is rather unique in what it does, the body, and it's also on the short list of good black 5s. Sure, exploit is barely even a mechanic, but don't let that stand in the way of you adding a great magic card to your cube.
  • split cards: Life // Death ---> I personally don't like this card because all life does is kill people, so it's essentially like adding a lava spike // reanimate split card, and I don't have a huge love for reanimate either. That being said, there's basically no mechanic more intuitive than split cards. It's just two cards, but in one card :p I think the only question you'll ever get on these is "Can I play both?" where anyone at the table says no, and after those 5 words are exchanged everything is smooth.
  • renown: Goblin Glory Chaser > Monastry Swiftspear ---> Renown is a fine mechanic. People get it, and it does answer the one question people usually have right there (Does it keep getting bigger?). That being said, I don't love this card, and I'd add Stromkirk Noble instead anyday, since he's A) a cool little check on sometimes lesser known creature types ("Oh man mutavault is a human, dang!") and B) actually represents a dream for your players. He's about the only successful "protect a threat" creature I've run that has actually panned out, so I'd do that instead (or double up on it, like I have)
  • unleash: Gore-House Chainwalker > Borderland Marauder ---> Again, unleash is really short and sweet, and these are the kind of cuts I disagree with. Unleash is fine, offers a bit of flexibility, and isn't as easily replaced with say, a second copy of War-Name Aspirant (who has the dumbest name ever).
  • bloodthirst: Stormblood Berserker > Immobilizer Eldrazi ---> Much like unleash, this is a pretty simple thing here that makes sense, gives your drafter a plan, and performs well. Now, you might actually want immobilizer eldrazi for other reasons, but I'd cut something else :p
  • escalate: Collective Defiance ---> No reason to cut this for complexity. Kicker --> Choose another is basically the lovechild of half of all magic spell mechanics, your drafters will be fine with this :p
  • proliferate: Volt Charge ---> This one is a bit more contentious. The mechanic itself is simple, and it does let your drafters go on a quest (Kinda like seeing goblin king in a pack, you know?) But on the other hand, it's pretty clearly the only playable proliferate spell, and a lot of the creatures that involve +1/+1 counters (the easiest possible synergy) aren't that interesting on their own (Nothing like Thalia, Snapcaster, or even imposing sovereign ever has +1/+1 counters on it since just setting their power/toughness takes up so much of the text box already). I've reacted to this by making more proliferate spells and more +1/+1 counter dudes, but maybe that tax isn't worth it, and cool as it is ole 'chargy here should stay on the bench. That kind of depends on what your format wants, and how deep people expect volt charge to be. If their expectations and your intention are that they can draft a deck where EVERY creature has counters on it and volt charge is absolutly amazing, that's obviously very different than it being added as a 23rd card quality burn spell that occasionally interacts in cool ways with 3-4 creatures in your deck.
  • convoke: Stoke the Flames ---> Convoke is a bit odd, and does give drafters some pause. This could go, especially since I'm not sure how purely necessary an instant speed 4 damage burn spell is.
  • delirium: Gnarlwood Dryad ---> I've tried delirium in my format and I didn't like it. This might be a candidate for removal just given how much of an environmental change it takes to make this a reasonable goal. I do like the 1/1 deathtouch with lategame value as an attacker idea though, so maybe there's a custom idea there? (For reference, I don't think nimble mongoose is at all a card)
  • bestow: Boon Satyr ---> Bestow has it's fair share of rules headaches (Can I negate this guy?) which can mostly be easily avoided (Negate not being in the cube), and since this is technically kicker, it plays well. Not a huge ammount of gain, but green 3s being as anemic as they are, you might feel the hit cutting this guy. I have, but I wouldn't fault you for going either way.
  • affinity: Umoru, the Earth Enraged ---> Just change it to costs 1 less for blah blah blah. Realistically you aren't adding any more affinity cards anyways :p However, if your drafters are usually longtime players that don't know new mechanics rather than the reverse, I'd actually keep it, since affinity has kind of entered the magic lingo despite being on 0 relevant cards now, much like hellbent
  • shroud: Lightning Greaves ---> Shroud is fine, but lightning greaves is uninteractive and swingy, so there's better reasons to cut it than keyword nonsense :p
  • exalted: Qasali Pridemage ---> Exalted might not be in a lot of places, but people love it. Another simple thing that adds a decent amount. Keep him!
  • persist: Kitchen Finks ---> Finks does a good batterskull impression in terms of powerful cards that leave you open to a large number of decks, but persist is not a reason. Even in a format where +1/+1 counters are a big part, people get persist. There's reasons to cut it, but keywords aren't a concern here.
  • retrace: Worm Harvest ---> I've got other concerns with this card, but I'll actually give it a pass since it feeds to well into itself.
  • dethrone: Dack's Duplicate ---> Cool card, love it, but there's not much reason to keep it around. Not like UR are the creature colors anyways, so I don't think anyone will really mourn the loss. Also, given how this card plays in comparison to the +1/+1 counters aggro deck, it doesn't really count as support, which can confuse your drafters, who pick this card up to go alongside a pile of Stromkirk Nobles and Abzan Falconers, where it actually never gets a counter :p
  • cascade: Etherium-Horn Sorcerer ---> Eh, cascade is fun enough that drafters will put in the work :p That being said, unless this card is a fan favorite, I'm not actually a huge fan, given how expensive it is and the weird ways it contorts your blue deckbuilding (No counterspells, x spells, etc)

Two instances
  • bolster: Elite Scaleguard and Dromoka, the Eternal ---> Again, people get it. I think scaleguard is either horrible or wins you the game, so it can go for other reasons (I'm cutting it when I get around to patching)
  • hideaway: Windbrisk Heights, Shelldock Isle ---> The cons here are how swingy these cards are, and that the part where they ETB tapped is PART OF THE HIDEAWAY RULES TEXT WHY WIZARDS. The pros are that these are really appealing lands that give you a goal and card advantage in a sweet way. I could go either way.
  • fading: Parallax Wave, Tangle Wire ---> I don't think I've ever seen a tangle wire game where someone wasn't absolutely miserable, but hey, that could be your jam :p Wave is fine, and another decent thing to proliferate, and plays well. The only complaint I have with the thing is that Vanishing (See Calciderm) makes WAY more sense.
  • delve: Dig Through Time, Tasigur, the Golden Fang ---> Assuming you're okay with the power level of these cards, keep em! Delve is something where you really don't want there to be 30 cards in your cube that have this mechanic.
  • madness: Asylum Visitor, From Under the Floorboards ---> Floorboards seems a little loose, given how much of the card is madness bound, but visitor is fine. even if it never comes up, the focus of the card is on the later half anyways, so people usually gloss over the madness anyways.
  • converge: Painful Truths, Radiant Flames ---> Eh, up to you. If these become Read the bones and anger of the gods I don't think people would mind, scaling aside
  • ferocious: Crater's Claws, Heir of the Wilds ---> It makes sense and it's not hiding any rules text at all, it's just there to connect things like landfall. totally fine.
  • monstrosity: Polukranos, World Eater, Fleecemane Lion ---> Monstrosity is one of those odd ones. It's the only creature ability you can actually counter with doom blade, but on the other hand there's really nothing like polukranos. They'll probably come back to this mechanic eventually, and other than the doom blade issue it plays well (Post Hoc Kicker). Not a huge fan of lion in concept though.
  • landfall: Undergrowth Champion, Invigorating Overgrowth ---> Eh, up to you. Landfall is another magic lexography thing now, so people will understand.
  • fight: Epic Confrontation, Dromoka's Command ---> How friggin dare you :p Fight? FIGHT? This is as intuitive as it gets, is hardly a keyword, and we were screaming for it to actually be a keyword for so long!
  • scavenge: Dreg Mangler, Varolz, the Scar-Striped ---> Eh, I've never really found this mechanic to be that great, but people understand it: Creature flashback as an aura. I'm closer on dreg mangler, but I wouldn't be sad.
  • meld: Hanweir Garrison, Hanweir Battlements ---> hotly debated :p certainly keep it in for the dream if battlements is actually good enough, but if you're only running one of them, then I might make a custom. Garrison is such an odd creature: it's a building, but it can attack, and it makes dudes, all on top of the weird meld text which might actually be distracting.

Three instances
investigate: Bygone Bishop, Declaration in Stone, Tireless Tracker ---> Investigate plays too well in small numbers to be trimmed. Again, like delve this isn't a mechanic you want 30 cards with, since you'll end the game with clues uncracked.
evoke: Reveillark, Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw ---> Maybe lark, but these all play too well and are too intuitive to let go on.
raid: Bloodsoaked Champion x2, War-Name Aspirant ---> "Have you attacked". Yeah you're fine.
dredge: Darkblast, Life from the Loam, Shambling Shell ---> If loam was the only card I'd still say it was fine since it feeds into itself so well so you understand it. Personally I think the other two are just a bit weak :p
dash: Lightning Berserker, Zurgo Bellstriker, Goblin Heelcutter ---> Again, this plays into a pretty core red idea of temp benefit. Keep em.
living weapon: Spark of Redemption, Mindcarver, Bonehoard ---> god I wish this was easier. Living weapon is so bloody complicated, and you get so little room to have any rules text on the card once you've got the reminder text there that I kind of hate it. But creature --> equipment is a line that really feels right, and players love em. It depends on what you're letting in here. The only living weapon in my environment is +2/+2 and flying, so I don't think it's worth it. But if you have something that's really jumping out at you design wise, keep em.

Other
evolve: Cloudfin Raptor x2, Experiment One x2 > keep all four or keep none. ---> I vote keep. I like giving drafters direction, and evolve certainly does that. It's a solid growth mechanic, which is also nice, and rewards good sequencing. The only weird things are creatures that ETB with counters (The old Reverent Hunter vs Cytoplast root-kin oddity from when I was bitching about experiment two) and clones (which actually makes sense, since clones would die if they ever were actually a 0/0, so clearly they evolve with their new P/T)
hexproof: Sphinx of the Final Word, Fleecemane Lion, Narset, Enlightened Master > none of it spelled out ---> Eh fuck hexproof anyways. None of these cards even seem worth the gameplay downsides, let alone the complexity ones :p
double strike: four hits, among them the only level up creature Student of Warfare ---> People understand this. there might be some issues where they're like "when does the damage happen?" but like split cards, with that one issue out of the way these cards are totally fine.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Suh-weet! I wasn't actually expecting anyone to go through the whole list, but this is great, great feedback Chris! Thanks! I agree with your evaluations for the most part as well. I still think there's merit in reducing the number of one-off keywords to make the cube feel more cohesive and to reduce complexity a bit. One of my groups is full of people who used to play back in the day, so landfall having entered modern Magic lingo doesn't mean much for them. I think it's worth it on splashy cards like Sidisi, but unlike you I don't feel unleash is such a good mechanic that I'ld keep the single common that uses it in the cube. Borderland Marauder is certainly a less exciting card on a micro-level, but won't make the interactions in the cube less interesting on a macro-level as they both adequately fill the same role off aggressive red two drop.

I'll return with a more in depth reply when I have more time in a few days :)
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
The reason I like chainwalker is it's a solid creature with +1/+1 counters on it without a novel of rules text. I've doubled up on it, but I know I lean harder on the volt charges than you do :p
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
The reason I like chainwalker is it's a solid creature with +1/+1 counters on it without a novel of rules text. I've doubled up on it, but I know I lean harder on the volt charges than you do :p

Oh, I totally like how Chainwalker plays, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's worth the extra keyword when there are good alternatives available.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Lets put my counter-thoughts on the one instance thoughts in a spoiler :)

One instance
  • level up: Student of Warfare ---> Totally fine. If there's one thing gamers grok, it's leveling
    >> I'm fine with letting this one go, really. It's a very good card, but between +1/+1 counters and the repeated {W} activation inducing awkward mana progression in a three-color cube, I think it's time to look for another card.
  • battle cry: Rooftop Sentry ---> Should be alright, battle cry is simple. Doesn't this guy have batallion as well? :p
    >> This card is plenty stronk, being part of some ridiculously fast kills in testing (against an admittedly anemic AI). Sporting 2 unique keywords, this is definitely a custom that does not need to exist.
  • echo: Thraben War Marshal ---> I'm just not a huge fan of this effect to be honest. Theres other ways to make 2 dudes, and given this is custom already, I think you can do better than middling time spiral commons. May I suggust "Get em Boys" from my cube? :D
    >> I echo your sentiments. Well, not really, but that pun was too hard to resist :D This card is a doozy, interacting so, so favorably with Champion of the Parish. Also, I love the flavor in combination with that art! That said, it's not so vital that it needs to be in the cube, and echo honestly is a bad mechanic in my opinion, so I suppose I can let it go. I do in fact already run a variant on Get 'em Boys, except that it makes humans, costs {R}{W}, and has flashback {3}{R}{W}.
  • outlast: Abzan Falconer ---> Honestly I think this card has outlasted ones of times in my cube, but I still think it's better to run this than a more elegant custom. The power level's basically where I want it to be (Which may or not be true for you) and customs kinda inherently have a bit of inelegance to them, since no matter how amazing your design is, it can't be as natural to even middling cards from a recent-ish set, since people are familiar with those.
    >> Falconer fills a nice little role in that it allows your team to push through damage. There's other ways to do that however, and it's gotten a little less reliable as some +1/+1 counter cards got swapped out in favor of new stuff. I think it's time to bench the counter theme for a while and cut the scattered support cards left in the cube.
  • awaken: Clutch of Currents > shit, found another instance... ---> Yeah fuck awaken. This is blue haste (Which I don't have a problem with where I think it's needed, but this is mostly just power level concerns), unsatisfying kicker because decks here probably aren't 18 land affairs, and the unkicked version of this spell is REALLY bad. Toss em.
    >> Agreed .
  • flip cards: Nezumi Graverobber ---> Eh, I think he's had his time in the sun. It's graveyard hate, but more often then not this is a level up creature where you don't know how many activations you'll need, and the frame is super aggravating. I'd toss it.
    >> Agreed.
  • exploit: Sidisi, Undead Vizier ---> This card is rather unique in what it does, the body, and it's also on the short list of good black 5s. Sure, exploit is barely even a mechanic, but don't let that stand in the way of you adding a great magic card to your cube.
    >> Agreed.
  • split cards: Life // Death ---> I personally don't like this card because all life does is kill people, so it's essentially like adding a lava spike // reanimate split card, and I don't have a huge love for reanimate either. That being said, there's basically no mechanic more intuitive than split cards. It's just two cards, but in one card :p I think the only question you'll ever get on these is "Can I play both?" where anyone at the table says no, and after those 5 words are exchanged everything is smooth.
    >> Agreed.
  • renown: Goblin Glory Chaser > Monastry Swiftspear ---> Renown is a fine mechanic. People get it, and it does answer the one question people usually have right there (Does it keep getting bigger?). That being said, I don't love this card, and I'd add Stromkirk Noble instead anyday, since he's A) a cool little check on sometimes lesser known creature types ("Oh man mutavault is a human, dang!") and B) actually represents a dream for your players. He's about the only successful "protect a threat" creature I've run that has actually panned out, so I'd do that instead (or double up on it, like I have)
    >> I already run Stromkirk Noble, but as you can see I swapped it out for Monastery Swiftspear.
  • unleash: Gore-House Chainwalker > Borderland Marauder ---> Again, unleash is really short and sweet, and these are the kind of cuts I disagree with. Unleash is fine, offers a bit of flexibility, and isn't as easily replaced with say, a second copy of War-Name Aspirant (who has the dumbest name ever).
    >> We went over this :) With the +1/+1 counter theme possibly on its way out there's even less reason to keep it around.
  • bloodthirst: Stormblood Berserker > Immobilizer Eldrazi ---> Much like unleash, this is a pretty simple thing here that makes sense, gives your drafter a plan, and performs well. Now, you might actually want immobilizer eldrazi for other reasons, but I'd cut something else :p
    >> See Gore-House Chainwalker
  • escalate: Collective Defiance ---> No reason to cut this for complexity. Kicker --> Choose another is basically the lovechild of half of all magic spell mechanics, your drafters will be fine with this :p
    >> Agreed. Maybe I can add more escalate spells though, possibly custom, I love modal spells after all!
  • proliferate: Volt Charge ---> This one is a bit more contentious. The mechanic itself is simple, and it does let your drafters go on a quest (Kinda like seeing goblin king in a pack, you know?) But on the other hand, it's pretty clearly the only playable proliferate spell, and a lot of the creatures that involve +1/+1 counters (the easiest possible synergy) aren't that interesting on their own (Nothing like Thalia, Snapcaster, or even imposing sovereign ever has +1/+1 counters on it since just setting their power/toughness takes up so much of the text box already). I've reacted to this by making more proliferate spells and more +1/+1 counter dudes, but maybe that tax isn't worth it, and cool as it is ole 'chargy here should stay on the bench. That kind of depends on what your format wants, and how deep people expect volt charge to be. If their expectations and your intention are that they can draft a deck where EVERY creature has counters on it and volt charge is absolutly amazing, that's obviously very different than it being added as a 23rd card quality burn spell that occasionally interacts in cool ways with 3-4 creatures in your deck.
    >> Yeah, there's a million spells I can run in its place. I've been itching to find room for Char. One thing I find annoying about proliferate is that it makes planeswalkers much better, and those really don't need the help.
  • convoke: Stoke the Flames ---> Convoke is a bit odd, and does give drafters some pause. This could go, especially since I'm not sure how purely necessary an instant speed 4 damage burn spell is.
    >> Agreed.
  • delirium: Gnarlwood Dryad ---> I've tried delirium in my format and I didn't like it. This might be a candidate for removal just given how much of an environmental change it takes to make this a reasonable goal. I do like the 1/1 deathtouch with lategame value as an attacker idea though, so maybe there's a custom idea there? (For reference, I don't think nimble mongoose is at all a card)
    >> With a heavy enchantment theme and a lot of custom lands that hit the gy I think it's easier to achieve delirium in my cube than in an average cube. I'm tempted to put in more of this mechanic.
  • bestow: Boon Satyr ---> Bestow has it's fair share of rules headaches (Can I negate this guy?) which can mostly be easily avoided (Negate not being in the cube), and since this is technically kicker, it plays well. Not a huge ammount of gain, but green 3s being as anemic as they are, you might feel the hit cutting this guy. I have, but I wouldn't fault you for going either way.
    >> See above. I'm tempted to add a few more bestow cards, rather than cut Boon Satyr.
  • affinity: Umoru, the Earth Enraged ---> Just change it to costs 1 less for blah blah blah. Realistically you aren't adding any more affinity cards anyways :p However, if your drafters are usually longtime players that don't know new mechanics rather than the reverse, I'd actually keep it, since affinity has kind of entered the magic lingo despite being on 0 relevant cards now, much like hellbent
    >> Eh. It's a custom. I can spell it out or I can cut it.
  • shroud: Lightning Greaves ---> Shroud is fine, but lightning greaves is uninteractive and swingy, so there's better reasons to cut it than keyword nonsense :p
    >> Agreed.
  • exalted: Qasali Pridemage ---> Exalted might not be in a lot of places, but people love it. Another simple thing that adds a decent amount. Keep him!
    >> Agreed.
  • persist: Kitchen Finks ---> Finks does a good batterskull impression in terms of powerful cards that leave you open to a large number of decks, but persist is not a reason. Even in a format where +1/+1 counters are a big part, people get persist. There's reasons to cut it, but keywords aren't a concern here.
    >> Agreed.
  • retrace: Worm Harvest ---> I've got other concerns with this card, but I'll actually give it a pass since it feeds to well into itself.
    >> Agreed.
  • dethrone: Dack's Duplicate ---> Cool card, love it, but there's not much reason to keep it around. Not like UR are the creature colors anyways, so I don't think anyone will really mourn the loss. Also, given how this card plays in comparison to the +1/+1 counters aggro deck, it doesn't really count as support, which can confuse your drafters, who pick this card up to go alongside a pile of Stromkirk Nobles and Abzan Falconers, where it actually never gets a counter :p
    >> Agreed.
  • cascade: Etherium-Horn Sorcerer ---> Eh, cascade is fun enough that drafters will put in the work :p That being said, unless this card is a fan favorite, I'm not actually a huge fan, given how expensive it is and the weird ways it contorts your blue deckbuilding (No counterspells, x spells, etc)
    >> The Sorcerer is actually a fairly popular card. I've seen people play it over cards I considered superior. It also plays nicely with the "two spells a turn" subtheme in {U/R}, so maybe I should just keep it. It's a pity that the good cascade cards are in colors I don't support as a guild/shard.
 
Totally try out some more delirium! If the format can support incidental types like enchantments and stuff, it becomes much easier to have active. I experienced this in EMN sealed this past weekend. My first deck was more "typical", and I'm not sure I ever had Delirium, but my second deck had some aura removal, a vessel, 2 PW's, and an artifact creature, and it was fairly easy to get there.

Also determined that having ample discard outlets is super important, so players can get that random 4th type out of their hand.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Totally try out some more delirium! If the format can support incidental types like enchantments and stuff, it becomes much easier to have active. I experienced this in EMN sealed this past weekend. My first deck was more "typical", and I'm not sure I ever had Delirium, but my second deck had some aura removal, a vessel, 2 PW's, and an artifact creature, and it was fairly easy to get there.

Also determined that having ample discard outlets is super important, so players can get that random 4th type out of their hand.

Yeah, I was pretty impressed by Inexorable Blob, and Tooth Collector would have been very annoying against me had my opponent reached delirum. There are a few more delirium spells that look really interesting. I think it's a really good fit for the color wheel as well. Abzan runs an enchantment theme, so it's easier to get four types into the yard, and Sultai runs a self-mill theme, so it's... Well, you get the idea. By putting delirium in {B/G} I can create a mechanical identity in that color combination that gells well with both of the shards the guild falls in.
 
Yeah, I was pretty impressed by Inexorable Blob, and Tooth Collector would have been very annoying against me had my opponent reached delirum. There are a few more delirium spells that look really interesting. I think it's a really good fit for the color wheel as well. Abzan runs an enchantment theme, so it's easier to get four types into the yard, and Sultai runs a self-mill theme, so it's... Well, you get the idea. By putting delirium in {B/G} I can create a mechanical identity in that color combination that gells well with both of the shards the guild falls in.
This was exactly why I am focusing some on Delirium in GB :). And for basically the same reasons too (but also RG in my format)! Directly in GB support can be found from black discard outlets, and green gravepulses, so I just think it's a beautifully designed and fun mechanic for that color pairing.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Like I mentioned in the elegance thread, I did an extensive count of keywords in my cube. It's fun looking at the low end and muse whether certain keywords are worth keeping in, but it's also worth looking at the top end. Ignoring flying, first strike, haste, and cycling (which is on a custom land cycle I run doubles of) there are only three keywords that appear on 10 or more cards!

Wait... shit. I should have headlined this post with

Number two will surprise you!!!

Trample appears 10 times. None of the cards contain reminder text, but trample has been there from the start, a true evergreen (ha! see what I did there?!), so everybody will know how it works. I'm fine with this.
Deathtouch appears 13 times. Now this worries me! I haven't been monitoring my keyword includes thoroughly before, but secretly a lot of deathtouch snuck into the cube. Almost 3% of the cards in the environment has deathtouch! That can't be healthy, can it?
Prowess appears 15 times. This is also a bit much, but unlike deathtouch, I don't really mind. Prowess is an awesome keyword!

Anyway, I am going to look at the as-fan of keywords in recent sets and see if that tells anything about where I stand with the as-fan of keywords in my cube!
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Pff... this is time-consuming work! I stopped at calculating the as-fan of my cube and two recent sets: Oath of the Gatewatch and Magic Origins, but already there are some obvious differences between my environment and retail draft.

keywords.jpg

Origins had quite a bit of deathtouch, thanks to two common creatures and a common combat trick with the keyword. Surprisingly, the amount of haste and first strike is off by an even larger amount though, and prowess might be a bit too prevalent as well after all. At the other end of the scale it seems like I need to add some reach and vigilance, because those numbers are really low in the cube at the moment. Now, I'm not saying I want to recreate a retail draft limited environment, but this comparison did offer a refreshing perspective!
 
To me it seems like as-fan matching has its limits, because I'd wager every set is different depending on the needs/wants of that format. For instance, in cube a lot of designers try to focus a little more than normal on non-creature stuff. This would make prowess a better fit for a bigger chunk of creatures, so a higher as-fan probably isn't bad, or is actively good.

Aka: what does your format want? Compare, for instance, your enchantment as-fans. I doubt they are very close to many Wotc sets (but I could be wrong). What changes would make your format more what you envision for it?

Excellent little experiment. Gives a lot of food for thought.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Oh, for sure! That's why I only compared the as-fan of evergreen keywords so far. Block-specific keywords are next, so I can, for example, compare the as-fan of enchantments and enchantment matters cards in Magic Origins and Journey into Nyx!
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
So, this site is awesome! Lots of useful as-fan information.

In Khans of Alara, each of the five wedge mechanics had an as-fan of just under 0.6. The as-fan of 4-power creatures (to support Temur's ferocious keyword) was 1.8, so three times as high.
In Magic Origins the as-fan of the enchantments matter mechanic was 0.3, the as-fan of enchantments was 1.29, or roughly four times as high. The as-fan of artifacts matter was 0.32, the as-fan of artifacts 1.37. This ratio is just a bit higher than the enchantments matter mechanic, but artifacts go into every deck, so I think that's understandable.
In Battle for Zendikar the as-fan of processors was 0.69, the as-fan of exile effects was 1.62, a ratio of around 2.35.
In Return to Ravnica, three of the five guild mechanics clock in at an as-fan of just under 0.7. Populate sits at 0.77, and detain much lower at 0.48. The as-fan of token makers is 1.02, though there is an overlap with populate cards.
In Gatecrash, each of the five guild mechanics has an as-fan of exactly 0.66.

So, around 0.6 to 0.7 seems like a nice target for a set with five core identity-defining mechanics? Interestingly though, Shadows over Innistrad was much denser with its mechanics! Delirium at 1.15, investigate at 1.29, madness at 1.01, DFC's at 1.13, the various tribes (if we combine werewolves and wolves) all sit around 1, except humans, which is at a stellar 2.48. Discard outlets, for madness, sit at 1.35. Then in Eldritch Moon, all of this normalizes again with a lot of the mechanics falling just short of 0.6.

Anyway, translating some as-fans to cube numbers (assuming a 450 cube, since my cube has that many cards):

cards > as-fan
9 > 0.3
18 > 0.6
21 > 0.7 (2.35 x 0.3)
30 > 1.0
36 > 1.2 (4 x 0.3)
42 > 1.4 (2.35 x 0.6)
48 > 1.6 (2.35 x 0.7)

Edit: There was an error in my calculations! I accidentally calculated the as-fan for a 360 cube. Numbers now adjusted for a 450 cube!
 
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