Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers

RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Tzenmoroth said:
I'm not sure how I feel about Deathblade. He's not Nighthawk and black's three drops are decently stacked, but the ceiling feels high on this guy and I love graveyard shenanigans.... Just not sold yet.

Hallowed-Moonlight.png


I don't run Containment Priest because I've never been comfortable running a hate card that completely hoses so many interesting strategies, but a cantriping one shot version sounds a lot more appealing. This counters any reanimator spell, token making spell, any variety of Natural Order effect, an activation of Pack Rat, this actually feels maindeckable because even RDW makes tokens sometimes, even Ux control occasionally drops a Battlesphere, minuses an Ashiok or casts a Bribery. The more I think about it, the more I want to be drafting it right now.
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I hate hosers like this. If you want to hose people, use a counterspell or removal spell instead. I see no reason to punish some of the hardest-to-assemble decks (Reanimator & Kiki-combo in particular) for a lousy cantrip effect, and if tokens are an actual threat in your cube worth maindecking this jank and holding up 2 mana for a T2 Raise the Alarm, you have severe balance issues that this won't band-aid for. I already run few tokens myself because most of them are so boring, and if Pack Rat needs policing (hard to fathom given how slow it is in most cubes), give white another solid removal spell that comes down earlier. When I see cards like this in cube, I don't bother trying to assemble something already delicate like Kiki-combo or Reanimator, because someone who last-picked the hoser is going to eat my ass in the most unfun way possible. Either decrease your tutor effects (I'm a big advocate of going tutor-light) or increase removal/counterspells, but please, do NOT put hosers like this in your cube unless you want to severely harm the more exciting, hard-to-craft decks available for the sake of a cantrip that does not interact effectively with the majority of the decks that get made in cube.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
RavebornMuse said:
[...] I already run few tokens myself because most of them are so boring [...] a cantrip that does not interact effectively with the majority of the decks that get made in cube.
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Now see, this is pretty subjective, and obviously it doesn't interact with the majority of the decks that get made in your cube because you don't run a lot of token makers. This card reminds me a lot of Pithing Needle in a way, because does have broad applications in my cube. It "hoses" a wide ranges of strategies, blink, reanimator, pod, and tokens being the most important ones in my cube, in all colors! Much like Pithing Needle, almost any deck will have a few targets, and it cycles in a pinch, so it's never a dead card.

Also it's just a one shot effect and only one player will end up with it (giving you a less than 50% chance to encounter the player running it in an 8-man, a player who isn't even guaranteed to hold it, with mana up, at the right time). If this card is holding you back from drafting Twin or something, you're doing it wrong. Do you not draft creatures when there's a Go for the Throat in your first pack? Because if there's answers like that, you might as well not bother, right?
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Onderzeeboot said:
Now see, this is pretty subjective, and obviously it doesn't interact with the majority of the decks that get made in your cube because you don't run a lot of token makers. This card reminds me a lot of Pithing Needle in a way, because does have broad applications in my cube. It "hoses" a wide ranges of strategies, blink, reanimator, pod, and tokens being the most important ones in my cube, in all colors! Much like Pithing Needle, almost any deck will have a few targets, and it cycles in a pinch, so it's never a dead card.

Also it's just a one shot effect and only one player will end up with it (giving you a less than 50% chance to encounter the player running it in an 8-man, a player who isn't even guaranteed to hold it, with mana up, at the right time). If this card is holding you back from drafting Twin or something, you're doing it wrong. Do you not draft creatures when there's a Go for the Throat in your first pack? Because if there's answers like that, you might as well not bother, right?
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Except I already said to run creature removal or counterspells in place of Hallowed Moonlight? Save your straw men for the corn field. I also find it pretty disrespectful to, in your first sentence, say it's a subjective call (which it is) and then say I'm drafting Twin "wrong" if "this card is holding you back". In the first place, I don't care for Twin and didn't reference it - I was referring to Kiki-Combo and Reanimator. Second, and most importantly, I never said this card was holding me back. I said "cards like this", ie, your more typical powered environment where there can be any number of Relic of Progenitus, Containment Priest, Stonecloaker, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Ground Seal, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Nezumi Graverobber, etc, in addition to oodles of removal and counterspells, all waiting to crap on your cute little combo deck. When there are a variety of cards that could hose a niche, hard-to-assemble, and rarely fully-optimal strategy like Reanimator, I don't try to assemble Reanimator. And, yes, the same goes for Kiki-Combo; a Containment Priest alone is plenty to make me skeptical of if I want to try to fish for the pieces, and two such effects would definitely make me pretty shy, especially since both cards do offer enough flexibility that they can be reasonably picked and hose multiple things. The way I see it, there are counterspells, creature removal effects, and relatively fair graveyard hate cards out there, and it's great to have those - no sacred cows or anything, no "do NOT hate my graveyard bro", none of that. But really narrow cards like this feel like hosers out to disrupt one specific kind of shenanigan, and that's what makes them frustrating, to me, subjectively, yes, and what makes me, someone who rarely drafts a very tutor-riffic cube, shy away from "Twin or something", yes. "Wrong"? Maybe. But that's subjective little ol' me.

I'd be quite curious to know, though, how many cards this actually responds to profitably in your cube. Or anyone's, for that matter. Because if you're looking for cheap white cantrips, Shelter is a fine place to start, and "cycles" much more profitably.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
No disrespect meant man, sorry if I came across, well, cross. Anyway, you say this is a narrow card which hoses one specific kind of shenanigan, and I content that it's not narrow. Also, this isn't easily replaced by a counterspell, since those are blue, not white, and removal hits different things than this.

Got to go see the GP, and prepare for D&D afterwards, but I'll see if I can make a tally.

Edit: Ok, targets. At the moment, though my cube is in flux a.t.m.

White
Two customs plus Blade Splicer, Flickerwisp, Monastery Mentor, Ojutai Exemplars, Reveillark, Lightform, Midnight Haunting, Battle Screech, Parallax Wave, Sigil of the Empty Throne, Martial Coup.

Red
Young Pyromancer (x2), Feldon of the Third Path, Goblin Rabblemaster, Flamerush Rider, Siege-Gang Commander, Hordeling Outburst.

Blue
Chasm Skulker, Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Sharding Sphinx, Mirror Mockery, Supplant Form.

Black
Two customs plus Gravecrawler (x2), Nezumi Graverobber, Sultai Emissary, Cemetery Reaper, Flesh Carver, Xathrid Necromancer, Risen Executioner, Rakshasa Gravecaller, Overseer of the Damned, Life//Death, Corpseweft, Curse of Shallow Graves, Necromancy, Makeshift Mannequin, Vigor Mortis, Living Death.

Green
One custom plus Kessig Cagebreakers, Call of the Herd, Birthing Pod (x2), Garruk Wildspeaker, Grizzly Fate, Spider Spawning.

Gold
Twelve customs plus Firemane Angel, Assemble the Legion, Necromaster Dragon, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Worm Harvest, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage, Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Loxodon Smiter, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Armada Wurm, Selesnya Charm, Sundering Growth, Advent of the Wurm, Marchesa, the Black Rose, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant.

Colorless
Epochrasite, Mimic Vat, Bonehoard.

So... 83 out of 450, or ~18%. So, on average, about 5-6 cards per opponent's deck, though obviously those will not be equally distributed.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
deathbladepredator.jpg

I'm actually kinda excited about this guy. You know how I like my boneyard wurms? being perfectly respectible with a single dead creature.
Really solid defensive body that is probably fine swining for 2, but scales into the lategame and acts as a reward card?

Every other graveyard incentive card has been narrow as hell, and this card is probably the self mill kitchen finks

Goldenpineapple said:
thegreataurora.jpg
infiniteobliteration.jpg
embermawmonstrosity.jpg



Red card has trample and "whenever a red source you control would deal damage, it deals that much plus one instead"
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I enjoy that the Red Guy is essentially a RR3 5/5, but since it makes red things do 1 more damage it doesn't survive wildfire :p

Also INFINITE OBLITERATION sounds like a Yu Gi Oh card and/or something the boss of Final Fantasy (N/2 +3y) would say before going into a 5 minute cutscene move
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
en_GiNSBDZCEr.png


Not bad!

Also, HOLY BALLS! THEY CHANGED THE OFFICIAL MULLIGAN RULE! THIS IS WHY SCRY BECAME EVERGREEN! PROPS TO CML!

103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.

Emphasis mine, source: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/changes-starting-pro-tour-magic-origins-2015-06-29
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Adding an activation to cards is usually its death knell - see Barrage of Expendables vs. Goblin Bombardment - but in this case, I feel like Molten Vortex is actually perfectly built for cube use, whereas Seismic Assault is difficult to justify running. (Also, is having Vortex in the name a codename that Wizards is seeding cards specifically for cube?)

In that thread where we were brainstorming Gruul land decks, possibly with a Life from the Loam engine, Vortex would be an excellent fit. Between this and Hammer of Purphoros, I think there's good reasons to put a land-based engine into RG. As a matter of fact, I'm probably going to immediately start overhauling my current theme of land destruction into one of land amassing.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

OK. Now we are getting some interesting cards. Loving the one mana Seismic Assault card. That is begging to go into my Naya land matters theme.

And Thopter Spy Network looks freakin' awesome. I don't know if it's too narrow or where I put that, but I'm going to start looking right now.
 
Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth

I understand that Hallowed Moonlight can feel bad, but if you get out Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite, Hallowed Moonlight only stops it for that turn, it still lets you untap and win next turn. Against reanimator its a counterspell in white stapled to a cremate. Against Natural Order or similar 'put a creature into play' effects, its just a counterspell. So I disagree that this is a more oppressive hate card than a counterspell would be. Those decks should be able to recover from Moonlight as easily as they would have recovered from a counterspell. If anything, it forces the 'cheat into play' archetypes to try again. Reanimator still has cards like Feldon and Whip to pretty much get around this (countering a single tap can feel meh) so its presence can make an interesting sub-game.

Molten Vortex feels like a slam dunk, I've been wanting Assault 2 for Loam so badly.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Pretty heavy on the "red cards that only work with red cards" theme here? The two chandra-related cards, plus the Hellion?

I forgot what Hallowed Moonlight did three seconds after I read it. Its a situational counter with basically no proactive use, so its get in the weird place where if the situation is rare, why are you running a card to counter it and if the situation is common, do you want a hate card for it?
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

Kind of wish the new one drop already had Menace, as getting in for 1 in order to "turn it on" seems pretty weak. Molten Vortex seems cool even without a land theme. Thopter Spy Network is a cool tool for anyone into artifacts stuff.

I predict that MtG: Origins is actually stealing some of Future Sight's ideas and showing us glimpses of what's to come. Vryn and Kaladesh seem just a little too fleshed out to not be sets in the near future. Kaladesh being "steampunk world" and vryn possibly being the "post apocalypse world" that MaRo seems to think isn't worth doing "cuz dat was teh time spiral block!" I hope to see Kaladesh soon. But if it is an artifact world, it will be competing with the return to new phyrexia for its spot.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Yeah, not to pile on the hate wagon for the hate card, but these are the kinds of cards that work better in constructed than in limited (including cube draft). It doesn't really matter if your very narrow hate card replaces itself - see Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, or Slice in Twain - it's that, unless your cube is made up primarily of the archetype that the card targets, it's really hard to justify picking up this card in a draft over one that proactively works toward your strategy, or picking it over non-basic fixing.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Onderzeeboot said:
I think Hallowed Moonlight hits a lot more targets than Shadow of Doubt, without accidentally stunting one player's fetch-based mana development.
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I meant more in the sense that they are both situational hate cards that cantrip for those times when they are dead. I just felt that it was a better argument by analogy than pithing needle; but you're certaintly free to run it if you like those types of cards.

Anyways though, this set has some nice niche fillers. Molten Vortex should put a big smile on everyones face that has been itching to run seismic assault, or wants to see loam more viable in cube. Thopter spy network is another really cool card, that helps fill out the U/R artifacts theme, though I realize these cards may be too low power to really shine in a lot of cubes.
 
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