General Riptidelab mostly-custom cube attempt #1

[Onderzeeboot]

what if we had 4 x 11 type packs to limit exposure to too many new cards at the same time (leaves you with 44 to make a deck with instead of 45)

The downside of this is that you don't (hardly) wheel any good or playable cards, so the real card pool is much smaller than 44 cards. Guesstimating that getting a playable card out of the last four cards in a booster pack is lucky, you'll get 3*((3*2)+(5*1)) = 33 playables out of a normal 3*15 draft, and only 4*((7*1)+(1*0)) = 28 playables out of a 4*11 draft. That might not seem like a huge difference, but mono-colored decks will probably not be viable in a 4*11 environment for example. At least, that's my guess.

Edit: Adding hybrids and a greater density of artifacts would help in this case

 

[Chris Taylor]

The downside of this is that you don't (hardly) wheel any good or playable cards, so the real card pool is much smaller than 44 cards. Guesstimating that getting a playable card out of the last four cards in a booster pack is lucky, you'll get 3*((3*2)+(5*1)) = 33 playables out of a normal 3*15 draft, and only 4*((7*1)+(1*0)) = 28 playables out of a 4*11 draft. That might not seem like a huge difference, but mono-colored decks will probably not be viable in a 4*11 environment for example. At least, that's my guess.

Edit: Adding hybrids and a greater density of artifacts would help in this case

This is perfectly acceptable with 6 people in the draft FWIW

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This is perfectly acceptable with 6 people in the draft FWIW

With six people it gets better yes.

 

[GenericZero]

So are we now attempting to design hybrid cards? Cuz that's some tricky business right there...

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Spell Tax
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2. If he or she does, draw a card.

Mindreave
Instant
Target player puts the top 3 cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Then you may cast an instant or sorcery spell from that graveyard without paying its casting cost.

Backlash Bolt
Sorcery
Backlash Bolt deals 4 damage to target creature or player, and 4 damage to you or a creature you control.

Terra Snapper
Creature - Elemental Turtle
Discard a land card: Put a +1/+1 counter on Terra Mauler and it gains haste and trample until end of turn.
2/1

Sundering Wave
Instant
Choose one — Destroy target artifact; or destroy target enchantment; or destroy target artifact and target enchantment.

Leeching Gargoyle
Creature - Gargoyle
Flying, first strike, lifelink
2/1

Mirrorgaze Soul
Creature - Spirit
: Change a target of target instant or sorcery spell to Mirrorgaze Soul. Then copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy. You can't target a spell more than once with this ability.
1/1

Cockroach Overlord
Creature - Insect
You may cast Cockroach Overlord from your graveyard.
Cockroach Overlord enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it if you didn't cast it from your hand.
Counters remain on Cockroach Overlord as it moves to any zone other than a player's hand or library.
2/2

War Spell
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a strife counter on War Spell.
Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0 for each strife counter on War Spell.

Giant Ophidian
Creature - Snake
Whenever Giant Ophidian deals combat damage to an opponent, draw a card.
2/4

How did I do?

 

[GenericZero]

Okay, so here's my review:

Spell Tax: I can dig this for the most part, but I don't like the idea that ANY white deck could have this ability when white should suck at drawing cards and shouldn't have or need access to counterspells unless it is teamed up with blue.

Mindreave: I would never want to play this, personally. The variables are too high and it isn't skill-rewarding. I get that U/B is hard to design for but we can do better than this, can't we?

Backlash Bolt: Upon the first reading of the card, I thought "this is incredibly dumb and I don't want this." But then it hit me that both black and red are getting access to 4 damage for 2 mana, and you can play around the drawback. I can dig this.

Terra Snapper: This needs a bit more going for it. Make it a 2/2 and possibly give it natural haste instead of conditional? Might be fine as is, but I like having 1 more point of toughness, personally.

Sundering Wave: A better Naturalize still has the same issue as Naturalize. Too narrow and while it answers two card types that lack many answers, it needs to do more than that. People like Reclamation Sage and Quasali Pridemage cuz they give you more than a narrow effect. Possibly just make this a 2/1 with flash?

Leeching Gargoyle: Works for me.

Mirrorgaze Soul: Give it flying, maybe make it an elemental since we don't usually see spirits in red.

Cockroach Overlord: I like it, but can we make it a 3/3? It feels a lot better as a 3/3. Perhaps another creature-type change as well.

War Spell: It costs 4 mana in a VERY aggressive color combination and doesn't do anything on an empty board or do anything instantly. I DID find myself inspired by it, though....

Helix Trenches: 2 hybrid mana. R/W. Enchantment. Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, choose one: deal 1 damage to target player OR gain 1 life.

2 colorless, Sacrifice a land: Put a 1/1 soldier creature token onto the battlefield.

Giant Ophidian: U/G seems to have enough Scroll Thieves and whatnot...Why not a 3 mana 1/1 dude that gives us explore? Seems fine by me. Or even a 4 mana 2/4 that gets a +1/+1 counter every time we draw a card?


To wrap things up, I think you've got some pretty damn good ideas. I just think they could use a bit more developing. Some of them feel like home-runs, obviously one or two didn't really tickle my fancy. I think there's definitely some discussion to be had on this, so hopefully we can get some opinions from our masses besides my own. Am I wrong in some of my judgments? Have I failed as a critic? Are my own personal designs flawed? Someone talk to me!

 

[silasw]

Polymorphic Amoeba
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
When Polymorphic Amoeba attacks, exile it. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card. Put that card onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Shuffle all other cards revealed this way into your library.
2/2

Animate
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant artifact or land
Enchanted permanent is a 4/4 Golem creature in addition to its other types.

Skirk Avenger
Creature - Goblin Warrior
You can’t cast Skirk Avenger during your first or second turns of the game.
Haste
2/2

Twisted Fate, the Cardmaster
Legendary Creature - Human Rogue
Whenever Twisted Fate, the Cardmaster becomes untapped, you may draw a card.

, Discard a card: If the discarded card was red, Twisted Fate deals 1 damage to target creature or player. If it was blue, the next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn costs less to cast.
1/1

Steadfast Vanguard
Creature - Human Soldier
Indestructible
Whenever Steadfast Vanguard becomes the target of a spell or ability, it loses indestructible until end of turn.
2/1

Dark Advisor
Creature - Human Advisor
When Dark Advisor enters the battlefield, you draw a card and you lose 1 life.
2/1

Arcane Burst
Instant
Cascade
Flashback

Mind Reading
Enchantment
When Mind Reading enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Your opponents play with their hands revealed.

 

[GenericZero]

I got lazy and don't feel like explaining things about each card in a paragraph, so I'll just make small comments and/or edits.

Polymorphic Amoeba
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
When Polymorphic Amoeba attacks, exile it. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card. Put that card onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Shuffle all other cards revealed this way into your library.
2/2

^This is fine^

Animate
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant artifact or land
Enchanted permanent is a 4/4 Golem creature in addition to its other types.

^This is a BLUE card, not a green one. Green doesn't animate artifacts. It also doesn't make Golems^

Skirk Avenger
Creature - Goblin Warrior
You can’t cast Skirk Avenger during your first or second turns of the game.
Haste
2/2

^Seems fair but that drawback just feels so fucking harsh it probably isn't a very high pick...almost ever...^

Twisted Fate, the Cardmaster
Legendary Creature - Human Rogue
Whenever Twisted Fate, the Cardmaster becomes untapped, you may draw a card.

, Discard a card: If the discarded card was red, Twisted Fate deals 1 damage to target creature or player. If it was blue, the next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn costs less to cast.
1/1

^Should probably be a 1/3. The "make your next card cost less" seems like poop. I don't know what to replace it with, though...so maybe it will have to do.^

Steadfast Vanguard
Creature - Human Soldier
Indestructible
Whenever Steadfast Vanguard becomes the target of a spell or ability, it loses indestructible until end of turn.
2/1

^Seems legit^

Dark Advisor
Creature - Human Advisor
When Dark Advisor enters the battlefield, you draw a card and you lose 1 life.
2/1

^Make it 2 life, and we're good.^

Arcane Burst
Instant
Cascade
Flashback

^Okay, now this is just silly. It HAS to do at least SOME small thing. Even just make it deal 1 damage to target player and up to one target creature he or she controls...^

Mind Reading
Enchantment
When Mind Reading enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Your opponents play with their hands revealed.

^This seems fun but I feel like it should already exist. It should also DEFINITELY BE U/B.^

 

[anotak]

so jason suggested dethrone for this environ the other day on skype maybe

challenge: can you guys make some sweet landstorm, life payment, or top of the library related cards. lets move in a direction here

The downside of this is that you don't (hardly) wheel any good or playable cards, so the real card pool is much smaller than 44 cards. Guesstimating that getting a playable card out of the last four cards in a booster pack is lucky, you'll get 3*((3*2)+(5*1)) = 33 playables out of a normal 3*15 draft, and only 4*((7*1)+(1*0)) = 28 playables out of a 4*11 draft. That might not seem like a huge difference, but mono-colored decks will probably not be viable in a 4*11 environment for example. At least, that's my guess.

Edit: Adding hybrids and a greater density of artifacts would help in this case

true, maybe 4x12 (48) or something then

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I don't know about landstorm guys, I think the counterspell example isn't even a card I would want in my cube. I mean, I guess I'll use my non-landstorm instant first? Since mana burn isn't a thing anymore, you have to be really careful with the bonus as well, since really, is tapping out that much of a drawback? I believe we just had a bout of "blue white tap out control" being the best deck in Standard last year (though I don't play constructed anymore, so that could be longer ago).

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Thanks for the review GenericZero, that's some decent input!

Okay, so here's my review:

Spell Tax: I can dig this for the most part, but I don't like the idea that ANY white deck could have this ability when white should suck at drawing cards and shouldn't have or need access to counterspells unless it is teamed up with blue.

Cantripping is fine in white, and mana taxing is in flavor as well (though usually affecting permanents). I think this card is sweet obviously

Mindreave: I would never want to play this, personally. The variables are too high and it isn't skill-rewarding. I get that U/B is hard to design for but we can do better than this, can't we?

Alright, how about this?

Alter Memory
Sorcery
Look at target player's hand. You may choose two nonland cards from it. If you do, that player reveals the chosen cards, puts them on the bottom of his or her library in any order, then draws two cards.

Terra Snapper: This needs a bit more going for it. Make it a 2/2 and possibly give it natural haste instead of conditional? Might be fine as is, but I like having 1 more point of toughness, personally.

Yeah, +1 toughness seems fine. I like the tension on conditional haste though. Do I pitch this land or wait until I'm sure I got excess lands?

Terra Snapper
Creature - Elemental Turtle
Discard a land card: Put a +1/+1 counter on Terra Mauler and it gains haste and trample until end of turn.
2/2

Sundering Wave: A better Naturalize still has the same issue as Naturalize. Too narrow and while it answers two card types that lack many answers, it needs to do more than that. People like Reclamation Sage and Quasali Pridemage cuz they give you more than a narrow effect. Possibly just make this a 2/1 with flash?

I don't know, Disenchant is a legit card in cube as far as I'm concerned. Though if you really want to make it better...

Sundering Wave
Instant
Choose one — Destroy target artifact; or destroy target enchantment; or destroy target artifact and target enchantment. You gain 4 life.

Incidental life gain is the shiznit!

Mirrorgaze Soul: Give it flying, maybe make it an elemental since we don't usually see spirits in red.

Then again, we don't see a lot of flying in red either, do we? Also, the ability is pretty pushed anyway, I want to follow this up with Cone of Flame!

Cockroach Overlord: I like it, but can we make it a 3/3? It feels a lot better as a 3/3. Perhaps another creature-type change as well.

Yeah, the creature type is silly. Could easily be a Zombie or something to make for better type support. Though, picture it, Cockroach Overlord, COCKROACH OVERLORD DAMNIT!

Zombie Cockroach Overlord
Creature - Insect Zombie
You may cast Zombie Cockroach Overlord from your graveyard.
Zombie Cockroach Overlord enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it if you didn't cast it from your hand.
Counters remain on Zombie Cockroach Overlord as it moves to any zone other than a player's hand or library.
3/3

War Spell: It costs 4 mana in a VERY aggressive color combination and doesn't do anything on an empty board or do anything instantly. I DID find myself inspired by it, though....

Helix Trenches: 2 hybrid mana. R/W. Enchantment. Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, choose one: deal 1 damage to target player OR gain 1 life.

2 colorless, Sacrifice a land: Put a 1/1 soldier creature token onto the battlefield.

But direct damage isn't white and life gain isn't red, so this doesn't feel like a hybrid card at all to me I put War Spell at four mana, so that you can follow up your early drops with a curve topper. I think you could change the trigger to start of combat though to make it have an immediate impact. How's this?

War Spell
Enchantment
At the beginning of your combat step, put a strife counter on War Spell.
Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0 for each strife counter on War Spell.

Giant Ophidian: U/G seems to have enough Scroll Thieves and whatnot...Why not a 3 mana 1/1 dude that gives us explore? Seems fine by me. Or even a 4 mana 2/4 that gets a +1/+1 counter every time we draw a card?

3 mana? We can do better to improve upon the almost playable Coiling Oracle!

Coiled Explorer
Creature - Elf Snake Scout
When Coiled Explorer enters the battlefield, draw a card, then you may put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield tapped.

That's not really a mono-blue ability though, so this ability is skirting the borders of what hybrid cards should do as far as I'm concerned. There is that blue Harrow on a stick though from Time Spiral block...

 

[Jason Waddell]

Hmmm... hybrid. Did we move into this direction because of the comment about pack size? Because I don't really think, statistically, that the number of playables you get is greatly influenced by pack size. And I certainly wouldn't want it to drive the high-level design for that reason only.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Hmmm... hybrid. Did we move into this direction because of the comment about pack size? Because I don't really think, statistically, that the number of playables you get is greatly influenced by pack size. And I certainly wouldn't want it to drive the high-level design for that reason only.

Any excuse to put in hybrid cards is a good excuse! Hybrid rocks!

Hmm... Hybrid rocks?

...

...

Mystic Rock
Artifact
, : Add , , or to your mana pool.

And just because I like the name of it, even though these colors don't need the effect...

Rugged Rock
Artifact
, : Add , , or to your mana pool.

 

[GenericZero]

Hybrid rocks don't sit well with me for obvious reasons...

ANYWHO:

-The NEW U/B card still smells of elderberries.
-I REALLY think we should just make a 1/1 with Flash for the G/W card. G/W has had flash before, and a 1/1 with that ability isn't terrible or amazing, so it seems fine.
-The NEW trigger at the beginning of combat makes war spell feel a bit better. I wish it had an activated ability to make 1/1s at a bit of a hefty cost, though.
-The Izzet hybrid can totally have flying. Flying is seen in red enough where I don't think a flying 1/1 is scaring anyone out of their trousers.
-Couldn't Coiled Explorer possibly give us a choice? Like "when x enters play, choose one: You may play an extra land this turn; or draw a card." Maybe make it a 2/1? This seems more than fine.

EDIT: My idea for a U/B hybrid card.

2 hybrid mana, sorcery: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You may choose one noncreature card from their hand and exile it. If the exiled card is an instant or sorcery, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.

The fair discard black wants. The ability to copy a spell like blue wants. It feels fine in either color and can either be half decent or amazing, which I personally like. Thoughts?

 

[silasw]

EDIT: My idea for a U/B hybrid card.

2 hybrid mana, sorcery: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You may choose one noncreature card from their hand and exile it. If the exiled card is an instant or sorcery, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.

The fair discard black wants. The ability to copy a spell like blue wants. It feels fine in either color and can either be half decent or amazing, which I personally like. Thoughts?

Sounds broken as hell.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Sacrifice ~: Copy an instant or sorcery you control
2/1

 

[Eric Chan]

Those hybrid rocks rock.

 

[Jonas]

Those hybrid rocks are filter lands.

 

[GenericZero]

Sounds broken as hell.

Nah, it's fine. I mean, you could add a colorless or 2 to the cost I guess? But hey, I like the effect. Now we just need a reasonable cost.

Sacrifice ~: Copy an instant or sorcery you control
2/1

Make it FLY!!! ;D

Those hybrid rocks rock.

Am I missing something, here? Cuz they look near-identical to the signets and I know I'm not the only one who thinks the signets are just dumb.

 

[silasw]

Nah, it's fine. I mean, you could add a colorless or 2 to the cost I guess? But hey, I like the effect. Now we just need a reasonable cost.

I didn't realize it before, but it's pretty much a more versatile Mindclaw Shaman. Should we just let red have the effect then? Without the 2/2 body I would cost it at 4 mana, at the very least.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Technically the hybrid lands are a bit different. No splashing vindicate in a UR deck with them, since they require colored mana to activate.

Still nutz though

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Those hybrid rocks rock.

Yeah, it should be obvious from the names alone that I had the filter lands in mind It's an old adage that you can put a mana fixing land ability on a -cost mana rock, though upon further inspection they only did that five times so far (see below, sometimes the other way around). I think the filter land rocks are probably less harmful than the signets, but to be honest the suggestion of them was a bit tongue in cheek. I honestly wouldn't want ten mana rocks in my cube unless I was running a slow, heavy-gold environment (like Ravnica for example!), and not running all ten invokes OCD!



Hmm... Less then I thought, but anyway.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

-I REALLY think we should just make a 1/1 with Flash for the G/W card. G/W has had flash before, and a 1/1 with that ability isn't terrible or amazing, so it seems fine.

Dude, everyone just put a 3-mana monocolored card that can hit only one artifact or enchantment in their cube. A 1/1 flash that destroys an artifact and/or an enchantment is not okay at two mana. Either way, not everything has to be a creature, and I don't mind a very good sideboard card. I think with the four lifegain and the amount of artifacts and enchantments that gets played in a typical cube it might even be maindeckable.

-The NEW trigger at the beginning of combat makes war spell feel a bit better. I wish it had an activated ability to make 1/1s at a bit of a hefty cost, though.

Wait, wait! I know!

War Spell
Enchantment
At the beginning of your combat step, put a strife counter on War Spell
Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0 for each strife counter on War Spell.
Remove a strife counter from War Spell: Put a 1/1 white and red Soldier creature token with first strike onto the battlefield.

-The Izzet hybrid can totally have flying. Flying is seen in red enough where I don't think a flying 1/1 is scaring anyone out of their trousers.

On dragons and very inefficient flyers, or as a 1-time effect. I mean, I guess it couldn't hurt too much

-Couldn't Coiled Explorer possibly give us a choice? Like "when x enters play, choose one: You may play an extra land this turn; or draw a card." Maybe make it a 2/1? This seems more than fine.

Say it with me: "Why not both?" You do have an unhealthy aversion to 1/1's. Elvish Visionary is plenty playable, and we are adding hybrid mana and a land drop to that card.

EDIT: My idea for a U/B hybrid card.

2 hybrid mana, sorcery: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You may choose one noncreature card from their hand and exile it. If the exiled card is an instant or sorcery, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.

The fair discard black wants. The ability to copy a spell like blue wants. It feels fine in either color and can either be half decent or amazing, which I personally like. Thoughts?

Seems like a 3-mana effect, two mana is too brutal if you hit an expensive spell. Also should be nonland as well to avoid nastiness.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Hybrid kicker on playable mono-colored cards could be interesting. I was thinking along the lines of...

Vigilant Seeker
Creature - Human Scout
Kicker
Vigilance
If Vigilant Seeker was kicked, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it and it has ": Untap another target permanent".
2/2

Screeching Seagull
Creature - Bird
Kicker
Flying
If Screaming Seagull was kicked, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it and it has lifelink.
2/3

Coiling Venomfang
Creature - Snake
Kicker
Deathtouch
If Coiling Venomfang was kicked, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it and it has ": Switch Coiling Venomfang's power and toughness until end of turn".
1/3

Undying Berserker
Creature - Human Berserker
Kicker
Haste
If Undying Berserker was kicked, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it and it has ": Regenerate Undying Berserker".
2/1

Lurking Venomfang
Creature - Beast
Kicker
Trample
If Lurking Venomfang was kicked, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it and it has first strike.
5/3

Maybe not balanced yet, but I kind of like the idea of these.
Edit: Tweaked the costs a bit so the kicker is an upside but the baseline is attractive even if you play the kicker color(s). Tension is good

 

[GenericZero]

I didn't realize it before, but it's pretty much a more versatile Mindclaw Shaman. Should we just let red have the effect then? Without the 2/2 body I would cost it at 4 mana, at the very least.

I realized this point might be made, but my counter-argument is the following:

-You can choose a NONCREATURE card, so you don't need to hit an instant or sorcery.
-You aren't forced to cast it, so there's less worries about wiping your own board or overpaying for a 2/2 that probes them.
-It could be re-written to also allow you hit artifacts. At that point, if it also hits artifacts, I could see it possibly costing 4.