Are you running a mana base with Fetchlands? If that is the case, you could include the more aggressive landfall cards without the need for any mediocre land ramp spells because you'll already have several natural ways for decks to get landfall triggers.
Sigh, again?
- Thread starter sigh
- Start date
I will be running fetchlands, yes, but I think only 10 or 15 total, maybe up to 20-ish with evolving wilds type cards. Not a double cycle of "true" fetches is what I'm getting at.
I think at least Harrow can make an appearance, as it is quite decent as an instant that brings the lands in untapped. Good for a surprise burst of landfall, and only "costs 1 mana".
Recursive RockNow this is a color pair I love digging into, no pun intended. GB recursive decks have captured my imagination for years across several formats, and are one of the largest inspirations behind building out a GY-themed cube in the first place.
Gameplan: In basic terms, fill the 'yard and then generate lots of value off of it. Self-mill will play a heavy part in the functioning of the deck. Reanimation, counting creatures in 'yards, recurring lands, flashback spells; all will play a part in stitching together a cohesive GY-centric plan, backed up by solid removal and creatures that are beefy in their own right. It is a rock deck, after all, so powerful centerpiece creatures will feature heavily, either as enginer pieces or as juicy targets in the GY.
Components to take from
:- Land recursion, cards like ranumap excavator really shine in this shell
- Creatures that interact directly with the GY. This is a broad category that ranges from cards that nibble on the GY like deathgorge scavenger to beaters with self-recursion built in like honored hydra
- Self mill and other important supporting cards. grapple with the past, eternal witness, and also consistency improvers like finale of devastation
- flashback token makers.
:- Creature recursion. a staple of the deck. dread return, but also recursion to hand like phyrexian reclamation
- more self mill and GY filling. stitcher's supplier was a godsend for GY archetypes, but black also offers nice discard options like collective brutality
- Removal. Pretty self-explanatory. GB is a little slower, so appreciates removal that also give a little life boost, erebos's intervention for instance
- top end reanimation threats.
:- Not much TBH. Crucible of Worlds is a really nice piece, and potentially a good filler creature here or there, but GB's artifact demand isn't really that high.
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Polished Example Deck (40 cards)
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Lands-Matter GrindGameplan: My pet deck, to be perfectly honest with myself. This deck is taking the lands-theme being built into the cube and turns them into raw resources to power effects. Burn spells, repeatable burn effects, draw effects, and so on. The game's end plan is often to land one of the repeatable burn effects and grind down the opponent with recurred lands. This may be where I break into using custom-lite cards. Something like seismic assault but
instead of three red pips. I don't think this fundamentally warps the cards power level, and avoids the issues with getting the triple-red working in decks. Maybe it's not needed. We'll see. I'm likely going to look into a wildfire archetype for this color combo too, as it's deck plan is basically one and the same as a land-recursion's one. At the very least they play off each other very well.Components to take from
- Land recursion, cards like ranumap excavator and life from the loam are designed for this deck. so yeah they are going in lol.
- GY filling effects like Satyr Wayfinder and more tangential effects like Harrow
- Defensive creatures as well as assertive finishers
- land ramp in various forms
Components to take from
- Burn for reach and defense.
- Repeatable land-use effects like Molten Vortex
- hand filtering
- Mana rocks
Raw Example Deck (> 40 cards)
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Sacrifice AggroFinally! Made it through the color wheel. Quite the slog, but I think worth it!
Gameplan: This deck is well known on RTL, and I'm not aiming to making any groundbreaking changes to the formula that's been polished over the years. The deck will be gaining value over time by it's dudes hitting the yard. A similar strategy to how I want the
decks to operate, but less death-and-taxes, and more reckless beatdown. I'm anticipating the two combos will work closely together, and Mardu recursion-aggro will definitely be a thing.Components to take from
- The core of the recursive creatures lives here, and they play a pivotal role of course
- some of the sacrifice effects
- Efficient removal to clear the way
- hand disruption effects to keep the opponent off balance.
- Sacrifice effects
- Burn and other staples of aggressive red decks
- hand filtering
- Equipments
- colorless creatures that work in the deckplan (perilous myr for example)
Raw example deck (>40 cards)
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I have been casually facing decks off against eack other as I go to see if there are any glaring issues. Once I round out all 10 polished decks and do some solitaire, I might ask my wife to help in getting some actual person v. person data.
After noting anything intersting that comes out of that, I'll be hacking out a full rough draft cube to flush out each section from it's ~23 cards each, focusing on broadening my scope for each section (I don't want drafting on rails with just 10 archetypes period).
I also have to remember what cards I want from Strixhaven lol. None of my 10 posts consider it.
In parallel I'll be taking the dive into investigating singleton breaking. I've come to see from others that it just makes too much sense not to do it where needed, at least for my design goals.
After that, the draft testing begins and along with it the (never ending?) grind and polish.
Having a bit of a conundrum over my multicolored section; trying to flush it out to 4 cards and currently stuck at like 3, maybe 2.5 (not dead set on Seraph of the Scales). This is what I'm primarily considering at the moment:
Souls and Rites are pretty locked in. They do so much of what I want out of a GY-themed format.
Seraph... is good. Solid top end beater for a WBx deck, but I'm not in love with it. Technically fits into my sacrifice and/or weenie recursion themes via afterlife 2, but it's not a super strong link. Kinda generic overall.
So that leaves 1 or possible 2 slots to fill with something. I want to highlight the recursiveness of the WB section, as well as the sacrifice theme present in RB. I think Souls already ties in pretty well to the flying-tempo themes in UW, and Rites fits well with the GB rock decks.
A shortlist of cards that have piqued my interest:
Some reasons for my interest:
Elenda: Both payoff and input into a recursive and/or sacrifice theme. My hesistation would be that they start extremely weak, and is quite bad as a late game topdeck. They want to be out right away on T4 so the counters can start piling up.
Enforcer: Just a solid 2 drop on it's own, with some randomly non-trinket text, especially in the color pair (Thalia, Tomik, Braids, Bontu, Halvar), and a great mana sink for the later game (plus graveyard hate technically!) that helps recur value on creatures lost over the course of the game.
Lurrus: Just.... perfect ability for what I want the color pair and adjacent colors to be doing. But is it too strong?
Aristocrat: strong tie-in to the RB deck.
Knight: A very interesting effect that would play off of extra bodies entering from recursion and the like, and from things like tokens.
Celebrant: Kinda the same as Knight but the opposite. Basically a redundancy to Blood Artist (but a little worse probably). Not high on this one.
Finale: This one feels pretty distinct to WB, probably by design considering the quadbrid-ness. Doesn't pop off with something like repeated sacrifices, operating instead on the persistent value angle that I want for WB. The token pump isn't super big, but does provide some bonuses (besides making the inklings 3/2s).
Currently I'm thinking to add the General's Enforcer, and then if I don't keep the Seraph, I'm thinking about either Elenda or Finale.
Lurrus is also front in my mind, and if it's not too strong it's probably my pick over Enforcer easily.
Thoughts?
multicolored section; trying to flush it out to 4 cards and currently stuck at like 3, maybe 2.5 (not dead set on Seraph of the Scales). This is what I'm primarily considering at the moment:Souls and Rites are pretty locked in. They do so much of what I want out of a GY-themed format.
Seraph... is good. Solid top end beater for a WBx deck, but I'm not in love with it. Technically fits into my sacrifice and/or weenie recursion themes via afterlife 2, but it's not a super strong link. Kinda generic overall.
So that leaves 1 or possible 2 slots to fill with something. I want to highlight the recursiveness of the WB section, as well as the sacrifice theme present in RB. I think Souls already ties in pretty well to the flying-tempo themes in UW, and Rites fits well with the GB rock decks.
A shortlist of cards that have piqued my interest:
Some reasons for my interest:
Elenda: Both payoff and input into a recursive and/or sacrifice theme. My hesistation would be that they start extremely weak, and is quite bad as a late game topdeck. They want to be out right away on T4 so the counters can start piling up.
Enforcer: Just a solid 2 drop on it's own, with some randomly non-trinket text, especially in the color pair (Thalia, Tomik, Braids, Bontu, Halvar), and a great mana sink for the later game (plus graveyard hate technically!) that helps recur value on creatures lost over the course of the game.
Lurrus: Just.... perfect ability for what I want the color pair and adjacent colors to be doing. But is it too strong?
Aristocrat: strong tie-in to the RB deck.
Knight: A very interesting effect that would play off of extra bodies entering from recursion and the like, and from things like tokens.
Celebrant: Kinda the same as Knight but the opposite. Basically a redundancy to Blood Artist (but a little worse probably). Not high on this one.
Finale: This one feels pretty distinct to WB, probably by design considering the quadbrid-ness. Doesn't pop off with something like repeated sacrifices, operating instead on the persistent value angle that I want for WB. The token pump isn't super big, but does provide some bonuses (besides making the inklings 3/2s).
Currently I'm thinking to add the General's Enforcer, and then if I don't keep the Seraph, I'm thinking about either Elenda or Finale.
Lurrus is also front in my mind, and if it's not too strong it's probably my pick over Enforcer easily.
Thoughts?
Have you considered Reanimator?
Otherwise, I like Corpse Knight, but I feel that card really wants to be in some sort of combo deck where it can trigger several times in one turn off of like Rally the Ancestors or something.
I already have reanimation support in white, black, and directly inWB (Unburial Rites). Is there something specific you are thinking for WB that would help support that angle further?
Well, I know you've already seen my post in Erik's thread, so I'd reccomend trying to reach the densities of reanimation effects and targets listed there. To fill out your gold slots, you could use Ashen Rider and Obzedat's Aid, as those are both good cards that support the reanimation strategy (aid can actually bring back Walkers, Artifacts, and Enchantments, too!) I don't know what you're using in terms of self mill/discard, but I would make sure to look at reanimator decks from constructed and other people's cubes to try to figure out what number of those sorts of effects you want in order to make sure you can turn on your reanimation spells on time. I also think Professor of Symbology could be a unique choice as a White Fissure Wizard, even if you end up including no lessons in the cube. If the addative destraction is an issue, you could always just proxy up a version where the lesson text is removed to just say it rummages.
Otherwise, since white is a little weak in terms of getting things into the bin, I would try finding some nice Cycling creatures that work as reanimation targets. Obviously there's Eternal Dragon, but there are also some cool options with Angel of Ruins, Angel of the God-Pharaoh, Archfiend of Ifnir, and Scion of Darkness. Over all, I think you could easily make something work without too much of a slot commitment.
Lurrus is definitely strong. Recurring a small permanent every turn adds up.
What I like about it though is that you can chose the flavor of the engine you are building. It can be aggressive (Luminarch Aspirant) or defensive (Baleful Strix) creatures, cantrip artifacts (chromatic star), a removal spell (executioner's capsule) or something random that got killed.
And while it is strong, it is also very easy to kill both in and out of combat. Where it gets dicey is if you can draft it as a companion, because that is where the "overpoweredness" comes from. However, if you can manage that in a draft format, I feel you deserve it as it is a real challenge and leads to sweet decks (I drafted some WB, WG, WR, BR, BG Lurrus decks as companions and they are all sweet IMO).
What I like about it though is that you can chose the flavor of the engine you are building. It can be aggressive (Luminarch Aspirant) or defensive (Baleful Strix) creatures, cantrip artifacts (chromatic star), a removal spell (executioner's capsule) or something random that got killed.
And while it is strong, it is also very easy to kill both in and out of combat. Where it gets dicey is if you can draft it as a companion, because that is where the "overpoweredness" comes from. However, if you can manage that in a draft format, I feel you deserve it as it is a real challenge and leads to sweet decks (I drafted some WB, WG, WR, BR, BG Lurrus decks as companions and they are all sweet IMO).
Ashen rider is a potential inclusion if I do really want to signpost reanimation in WB, but I'm not certain I want to do that over something in a monocolor slot. For example
or maybe another cycling option
I do like Ashen Rider to be sure; it's caused some story moments over the years in EDH from my Teneb deck. Honestly I'm amazed at how overall unappealing the monoblack fatty section is. Basically a bunch of big boring demons, and then Griselbrand. Razaketh is pretty good too, but not sure I want to run him again.
Archfiend of Spite has madness, that's pretty neat. Gives another angle to cheating it out.
hmm..
Reanimation is definitely centralized in B(gu) for me, so WB reanimation isn't necessarily something that needs full in-color support from things like Professor of Symoblogy, but if I did want to get some discard support I'd probably go with seasoned hallowblade
Thanks for the input! Since it is so perfect for what I want that seciton of the cube to be doing, I'll probably try it out and then evaluate it again if it goes off the rails a bit.
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I'd agree that it's not usually worth a multicolor slot for a reanimator target. I'm a fan of going colorless so that ramp, reanimator, sneak, or whatever else can share the same pool of cards that most decks aren't interested in. I keep most of mine in black, which is practically the same as colorless for me. I'm eyeing Baleful Force as a non-demon target.
I always really like Obzedat's Aid conceptually, but I never find my list supporting many noncreature permanents I'm looking to get back and end up not running it. I keep popping Debtors' Knell in and out of my list as a target for it, but then cut both at some point. If you can get some noncreature targets, it seems sweet. Definitely a signpost, either way.
I've recently been eyeing WB tokens with Teysa, Orzhov Scion's color concerns pairing nicely with Inklings and Afterlife. I'm not sure if a normal color pie could support this or if it's even a good idea for me. Could try something like Teysa, Seraph, Finale, Souls. I'm always conflicted on the WB-ness of Souls and Rites, especially Rites, as it's totally fine to just cast the front half of the card, but it's kind of personal preference.
I always really like Obzedat's Aid conceptually, but I never find my list supporting many noncreature permanents I'm looking to get back and end up not running it. I keep popping Debtors' Knell in and out of my list as a target for it, but then cut both at some point. If you can get some noncreature targets, it seems sweet. Definitely a signpost, either way.
I've recently been eyeing WB tokens with Teysa, Orzhov Scion's color concerns pairing nicely with Inklings and Afterlife. I'm not sure if a normal color pie could support this or if it's even a good idea for me. Could try something like Teysa, Seraph, Finale, Souls. I'm always conflicted on the WB-ness of Souls and Rites, especially Rites, as it's totally fine to just cast the front half of the card, but it's kind of personal preference.
Just drafted this on CC (*insert obligatory bot hate here*) and I feel like this is both a perfect example of the careful color management I'm aiming for in decks, and also a good chance to reflect on the density of some effects.
This deck started as a Feldon deck, and quickly moved into GR when I saw the great target of Titanoth Rex come up. I speculated on Seismic Assault a few picks later and was quickly rewarded with a life from the loam. At this point I'm split on deck plan, with a Feldon wanting a reanimation theme, and an assault package wanting a lands-grind theme. The Gitrog Monster was the epiphany moment, as it really melds the two together beautifully. A big beater that can benefit from being recurred, that also works wonders with a lands theme. I picked up a couple reanimation spells as redundancy on that theme, and a living twister offered itself up as consistency for the lands side of things. This is close to a perfect example of how I want colors to be treated in my drafts. The black inclusion is very carefully thought out to provide an important service to the deck, which is in this case providing redundancy to the reanimation theme while melding it to the lands theme well.
In play I might switch out the Dread Return with a Persist I left in the sideboard if the dread return is a little too greedy on mana, even if Persist cuts me off from some of the targets I want to reanimate. Finale of Devastation could still come in later game and recur a legend from the grave if needed.
The big thing I'm noticing though, and I've noticed before, is... I think I actually have too much support directly in the "lands" theme. Like cards that directly care about discarding lands.
Borborygmos Enraged probably doesn't really count. It's more in the list as a really creative reanimation target, but besides that, that is quite the redundancy. And this is besides all the other ways that lands can already be discarded or otherwise interacted with that don't directly say "discard a land card" like faithless looting, Dismissive Pyromancer, Noose Constrictor (which is in the above deck!) etc.
So I'm currently thinking that 2, maybe just 1, but right now I'm thinking 2 of these can be cuts. Maybe one cut to something that is still relevant but not "discard a land" relevant. One top of my meh list are
Tectonic Reformation just plays a little awkwardly for me. Maybe it would be a good idea to move an effect like it into blue with Trade Routes, as inscho has included. But I think this sort of effect in general plays a little awkwardly. I also offer free cycling lands in the BLB, so it's value can get a bit diminished by just including a couple of those cyclers in the mana without any draft space taken.
Ayula's Influence I really want to like, but so far haven't seen it do as much as I would want it to do. I think something like a slightly more mana efficient savage conception is more what I'm looking for. Now that I think on it, I highly doubt that any of my drafters would even notice if I made a custom version that is for a 4/4.... like who plays savage conception lol.
Worm Harvest has been in and out of my list over the years. I just... I don't know if it's ever good enough, or if it kinda runs away with the game without really needing the retrace ability more than once or twice. No real exciting in between.
I'm currently unsure exactly what I would swap in... A second dismissive pyromancer? I really do like that effect... I do like the idea of a custom SC... thoughts?
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This deck started as a Feldon deck, and quickly moved into GR when I saw the great target of Titanoth Rex come up. I speculated on Seismic Assault a few picks later and was quickly rewarded with a life from the loam. At this point I'm split on deck plan, with a Feldon wanting a reanimation theme, and an assault package wanting a lands-grind theme. The Gitrog Monster was the epiphany moment, as it really melds the two together beautifully. A big beater that can benefit from being recurred, that also works wonders with a lands theme. I picked up a couple reanimation spells as redundancy on that theme, and a living twister offered itself up as consistency for the lands side of things. This is close to a perfect example of how I want colors to be treated in my drafts. The black inclusion is very carefully thought out to provide an important service to the deck, which is in this case providing redundancy to the reanimation theme while melding it to the lands theme well.
In play I might switch out the Dread Return with a Persist I left in the sideboard if the dread return is a little too greedy on mana, even if Persist cuts me off from some of the targets I want to reanimate. Finale of Devastation could still come in later game and recur a legend from the grave if needed.
The big thing I'm noticing though, and I've noticed before, is... I think I actually have too much support directly in the "lands" theme. Like cards that directly care about discarding lands.
Borborygmos Enraged probably doesn't really count. It's more in the list as a really creative reanimation target, but besides that, that is quite the redundancy. And this is besides all the other ways that lands can already be discarded or otherwise interacted with that don't directly say "discard a land card" like faithless looting, Dismissive Pyromancer, Noose Constrictor (which is in the above deck!) etc.
So I'm currently thinking that 2, maybe just 1, but right now I'm thinking 2 of these can be cuts. Maybe one cut to something that is still relevant but not "discard a land" relevant. One top of my meh list are
Tectonic Reformation just plays a little awkwardly for me. Maybe it would be a good idea to move an effect like it into blue with Trade Routes, as inscho has included. But I think this sort of effect in general plays a little awkwardly. I also offer free cycling lands in the BLB, so it's value can get a bit diminished by just including a couple of those cyclers in the mana without any draft space taken.
Ayula's Influence I really want to like, but so far haven't seen it do as much as I would want it to do. I think something like a slightly more mana efficient savage conception is more what I'm looking for. Now that I think on it, I highly doubt that any of my drafters would even notice if I made a custom version that is
for a 4/4.... like who plays savage conception lol.Worm Harvest has been in and out of my list over the years. I just... I don't know if it's ever good enough, or if it kinda runs away with the game without really needing the retrace ability more than once or twice. No real exciting in between.
I'm currently unsure exactly what I would swap in... A second dismissive pyromancer? I really do like that effect... I do like the idea of a custom SC... thoughts?
I'm not really a fan of Worm Harvest at your power level. I also think Spitting Image is a little on the slow side for your environment.
Why Seismic Assault over Molten Vortex btw?
Tectonic Reformation can probably go. It's pretty narrow in your list, and doesn't stand on its own. You would need to run more cards like:
Drake Haven
Astral Drift
Glint-Horn Buccaneer
Splendid Reclamation
World Shaper
Surly Badgersaur
Improbable Alliance
to make it worthwhile imo.
I'm not sure I would recommend Trade Routes for the same reasons. They are pretty low floor cards in most contexts. I think that 95% of the time they won't be better for you than the free cycle lands you offer.
In my cube, I particularly like these enchantments with the mass land resurrection spells in green: World Shaper & Splendid Reclamation. Which both tie into red's wildfires as well as blue's self-mill. Then you add the cycle creatures in RUG like Titanoth Rex, Yidaro, Wandering Monster, Waker of Waves and you suddenly have a unique ramp option as a plan B/C.
Random Example:
This deck also pivots really well into other simic strategies like dredge and lab man.
Why Seismic Assault over Molten Vortex btw?
Tectonic Reformation can probably go. It's pretty narrow in your list, and doesn't stand on its own. You would need to run more cards like:
Drake Haven
Astral Drift
Glint-Horn Buccaneer
Splendid Reclamation
World Shaper
Surly Badgersaur
Improbable Alliance
to make it worthwhile imo.
I'm not sure I would recommend Trade Routes for the same reasons. They are pretty low floor cards in most contexts. I think that 95% of the time they won't be better for you than the free cycle lands you offer.
In my cube, I particularly like these enchantments with the mass land resurrection spells in green: World Shaper & Splendid Reclamation. Which both tie into red's wildfires as well as blue's self-mill. Then you add the cycle creatures in RUG like Titanoth Rex, Yidaro, Wandering Monster, Waker of Waves and you suddenly have a unique ramp option as a plan B/C.
Random Example:
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This deck also pivots really well into other simic strategies like dredge and lab man.
I realized that in the decks that want/need it, it doesn't need to come down on turn 1, or even turn 3. I think my mana can support it; I've done things like supply relevant colors with filter lands and I think game pacing is down-tempo enough that even if it takes an extra turn or two to assemble the third R, it's not the end of the world. I also do have Flame Jab, which operates in a very similar space as Vortex, obviously less efficient, but more flexible in usage.
Surly Badgersaur is a splendid option for this sort of deck. I've been feeling meh about Tectonic Giant in the red 4 slot for a while now, and that is just the ticket.
Spitting Image I can see taking out, Worm Harvest I can easily see taking out. Just not sure yet what I would want in their places. Tatyova was a card I remember being interested in. Still plays around in the lands space. Fiend Artisan attracts my attention, but I worry that it can really take off with a game if you can search out the right creatures, or if the GY gets stacked. Maybe I just go back to Grim Flayer, which I do like well enough.
Flame Jab, Seismic Assault, Living Twister, and to a lesser extent Borbo is a lot of operational redundancy for one archetype. I think one could go, and Seismic is the least useful of these imo. It might be helpful to explore cards that can take advantage of the mechanic of discarding of lands/cards in a different way or profit off of them being in the graveyard? This is why I like a card like Glint-Horn Buccaneer as it shifts the discard mechanic towards an aggressive context, and then you add in things like Magus of the Wheel and Wild Mongrels and you have a viable aggro-loam strategy (Molten Vortex is better here). There's also Turntimber Sower or we can also flip it back to the mass land recursion cards I mentioned earlier...both of which are fun with Greater Gargadon...which is great in Wildfire....ahhhh I could go on and on and on
Seismic is the most bursty of them (except I suppose BorBo technically counts as being burstier). Trying to close out a game with a Flame Jab can be an excruciating experience. I also like that it's such a clear signal into the deck; it's basically the namesake of the archetype. I'm really loathe to remove it given those features, especially the signal it provides. My drafters didn't readily understand the upsides of Vortex.
That said I'm not married to it. I would just really want a card that could work as a clear signal. I think taking out Reformation is a good step in reducing clutter, and I'm not convinced three pieces is too much redundancy. After all, some people were/are running like 4 gravecrawlers right?
I could see taking out BorBo for another high end in that slot to reduce some of the clutter on that effect. You recent swapped in Pylath. I could see that as a valid swap for me too, and it would tie into my GW landfall/counters theme...
Yeah, Flame Jab is not a game-closer. I like it best as a marginal trigger for other things....which probably has a little less weight in your cube without Young Pyromancer and prowess/magecraft dudes.
I think Living Twister is a very clear signal in Gruul. Do you see the assault effects being very useful outside of Gruul? Like Meloku is cool with Seismic Assault, but how often does the Meloku deck want to actually run Assault over something more dependable?
By running multiple assault effects you definitely create a clearer identity for an archetype which can be a positive.
The difference in comparing multiple "assaults" to running multiple gravecrawlers is that crawler has a higher baseline and greater flexibility due to their usefulness in generic aggro, dredge, tribal, and sacrifice strategies. Seismic effects rely on specific support cards a lot more since they often aren't that good on their own.
Definitely a true statement. For me it plays quite decently as a recurrable removal spell against a lot of what my aggressive decks are doing. Double strikers usually only have 1 or 2 toughness for example. Same reason that Darkblast can actually pull some decent weight.
Living Twister is definitely a clear signal, I just like giving more than one piece if possible. I suppose I could literally double up on twister and call it a day, but that seems pretty on the nose. Assault is basically relegated to Gruul overall. Meloku would be making an appearance in a Gruul deck, generally speaking, not the other way around.
definitely valid, they aren't directly comparable. But in general archetypes are given redundancy on some effects, and this is an important effect for the deck, so I think it's fair to offer some options.
if you are looking for redundancy and perhaps also a different angle for your Flame Jab/Assault deck, perhaps consider Burning Vengeance? i currently run it in a Naya Loam/KOTR/Jab casual deck and it is much better than i expected, turning your Jabs and Flootings and such into very relevant damage.
This definitely has me going
I'm not certain it would have the consistency I want with the cube as it is, but I do run quite a bit of flashback etc...
Also potential concern is none of my drafters would know what in tarnation to do with it.
Also not quite as clear a signal for any one thing lol. Still an intriguing thought.
yeah, just something to consider if you have that kind of stuff going on already… it’s a pretty sweet value grinder / control wincon.
consider also
Yawgwill
Gaeas will
Underworld Breach
consider also
Yawgwill
Gaeas will
Underworld Breach
Underworld Breach I totally forgot about... it's an interesting variant of that type of effect. I am really unfamiliar with playing with that type of card, so I would have to jam it into something to see what it actually does in the format. I can potentially see it being wanted in several different decks to punch out a couple spells in a final turn. And it gives red creature recursion, which is unique to say the least.
I also just realized that it doesn't make cards entering a GY go into exile like the others do, so you can just windmill one spell for as many times as you have either mana or spare cards. Huh.