Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Awesome. I once managed to pull of the ultimate. Didn't lose that game!
Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
AEther adept plays better with nonbasics and reanimation?
Yeah Selkie seems super bad. I appreciate the lifegain that could happen, but I hate that those cards get worse as your mana gets better (Derugar Hedge Mage also suffered from this, despite having a much sweeter upside)
and hey, all is not lost. You might get a new art for man-o-war someday, I mean it's such a limited format staple at this point that we just got this guy!
[/Sarcasm]
Tamiyo isn't the most powerful blue walker ever printed - see Jace, Jace, Jace, and Jace - but if you're looking for a slightly lower power planeswalker to fit into the blue control decks, she's your woman. Her ultimate is tons of fun, especially because your opponent usually won't concede right away; it will feel to them like they still have a shot, until you cast and recast any mediocre spell over and over again.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think I actually like her better than beleran/prep school jace, though prep school jace can be better if the aggro decks in your format go wide instead of tall
in a cube revolved around tapping and untapping. Too strong or just plain unfun?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I'm trying the card now myself, its probably awful. Like, maybe Winter Orb level, but since it actually kills you its probably less frustrating and its counterpurpose to aggro (doesn't deal damage), so its a bit trickier to implement, so I'm hoping its fun by virtue of uniqueness/effort? I'm not sure what exactly a cube that revolves around tapping/untapping means, exactly, but it sounds durdly and durdly decks is what this card was made to destroy.
I like Mesmeric Orb because it creates a potentially amusing "who's-gonna-mill-themselves?" minigame. Assuming you've entered the midgame point, most people are probably tapping and untapping 5+ permanents a turn. Depending on when you play it and how strategically you land it, the card can end the game in 4-5 turns on average unless you're both really playing around it, which is the kind of amusement and tension I look for in card evaluation. If your players don't mind mill effects, I'd run it, though it might actually be too powerful if your cube is really low-powered.
Has anyone here actually tried it? (mesmeric orb that is) Sure it creates a minigame, but what if it's just a really unfun one? I once cast Mouth to Mouth with great expectations of what a fun time we would have and how I was obviously going to win. But actually we both ended up feeling terrible and I lost. Anyway maybe I'll try mesmeric orb. Probably not.
I just placed my order for the rest of my cube today, so I can't speak to how it plays out in a draft environment per se, but a friend of mine used to have one in his casual deck ages ago and it was always really funny when it came down. These were 60 card decks, too, so I imagine it's all the more hilarious at 40, but YMMV. I think CML runs (or ran) Mesmeric Orb, but I may be wrong. He could probably give some insight
I ran it for a little bit, it's really really strong. Sweet card, but if you didn't draft memory's journey or loaming shaman or kozilek then you'd better check yrself b4 u deck yrself
If nobody plays differently as a result it'll probably end the game in four or five turns. If you're okay running a two-mana artifact that does that, and have the interaction density to break the orb at an opportune moment, try it for a couple of drafts.
The thing that excites me about Orb is its HIDDEN POWER as a self-mill engine. Kiora's follower becomes a burrito, and it's maybe the easiest way (vis a vis cube and deck construction) to do weirdo Hermit Druid things where you just flip your library upside down and win. The milling the opponent is an obvious strength but it's also a combo Dredge card.
anyway, all that said, I cut mine for Howling Mine.
If nobody plays differently as a result it'll probably end the game in four or five turns. If you're okay running a two-mana artifact that does that, and have the interaction density to break the orb at an opportune moment, try it for a couple of drafts.
The thing that excites me about Orb is its HIDDEN POWER as a self-mill engine. Kiora's follower becomes a burrito, and it's maybe the easiest way (vis a vis cube and deck construction) to do weirdo Hermit Druid things where you just flip your library upside down and win. The milling the opponent is an obvious strength but it's also a combo Dredge card.
anyway, all that said, I cut mine for Howling Mine.
A few months on, I think almost everyone in the world is in love with delve. Between Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Murderous Cut, Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, and possibly Become Immense, delve has probably been the most impactful keyword mechanic for cube in the last few years. What about Gurmag Angler's slightly less impressive brother, though - is the trade off of +1/+1 for trample worth it?
i like tombstalker and hooting mandrils. a late game burning tree emissary summon one and another creature to recover. the trample is relevant there arnt many creatures w >4 toughness. id put it on serra avengers level good for getting to planewalkers
Let me be honest, I expected it from Mouth to Mouth. After checking that I assumed I was safe.
But then you got me.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I want to put a good word in for this guy:
I wrote him off as a less impressive Figure of Destiny when it was spoiled, but it's been excellent for me. It's awkward that you can't go T1 Warden, T2 level + tapland, but a 3/3 on Turn 2 is impressive and you often don't need to level it after that (or it gets killed, paving the way for something else). The big problem with Figure of Destiny was the demands it placed on your manabase; if you aren't in exactly Mono-R/Mono-W/WR or have any colourless lands in your deck, it can be difficult to get it past Level 1, whereas Warden is so much more lenient. I've had Gx decks where I've cast GSZ for it on T2 and T8+ in different games; it's rare that you want to draw a 1-drop in the late game, but often Warden is the best card in your deck in those situations.
I'm looking for another good artifact finisher that isn't Wurmcoil; what do you all think about:
I wrote him off as a less impressive Figure of Destiny when it was spoiled, but it's been excellent for me. It's awkward that you can't go T1 Warden, T2 level + tapland, but a 3/3 on Turn 2 is impressive and you often don't need to level it after that (or it gets killed, paving the way for something else). The big problem with Figure of Destiny was the demands it placed on your manabase; if you aren't in exactly Mono-R/Mono-W/WR or have any colourless lands in your deck, it can be difficult to get it past Level 1, whereas Warden is so much more lenient. I've had Gx decks where I've cast GSZ for it on T2 and T8+ in different games; it's rare that you want to draw a 1-drop in the late game, but often Warden is the best card in your deck in those situations.
I'm looking for another good artifact finisher that isn't Wurmcoil; what do you all think about:
Another vote for Figure of Destiny being overrated in cube, where, with the mana often being as awkward as it is, leveling him to 4/4 is already a momentous feat. I wasn't even going to give Warden of the First Tree a shot at the big time, but with your recommendation, I think I will now.
I was just looking for some excuse to post about Steel Hellkite. He's been very impressive over here, much moreso than I thought he'd be when I threw him in on a whim. I suspect he's always been overlooked because he had the misfortune of being printed in the same standard format as the game-changing Titans and the aforementioned Wurmcoil Engine, while even in limited he was outshone by his peers Sunblast Angel and Carnifex Demon, among others. Cube is where he's finally getting a chance to shine, as his targeted Ratchet Bomb-style activation is a powerful effect on a dragon, yet one that feels intrinsically fair, as your opponent has both a turn to prepare and any number of ways to prevent a six-mana creature from connecting. Hellkite is especially good if you support a token theme in your cube, and are looking for fair, versatile answers to a token swarm; there's nothing better than nugging your opponent for five and then paying zero to eat half their board.
I was just looking for some excuse to post about Steel Hellkite. He's been very impressive over here, much moreso than I thought he'd be when I threw him in on a whim. I suspect he's always been overlooked because he had the misfortune of being printed in the same standard format as the game-changing Titans and the aforementioned Wurmcoil Engine, while even in limited he was outshone by his peers Sunblast Angel and Carnifex Demon, among others. Cube is where he's finally getting a chance to shine, as his targeted Ratchet Bomb-style activation is a powerful effect on a dragon, yet one that feels intrinsically fair, as your opponent has both a turn to prepare and any number of ways to prevent a six-mana creature from connecting. Hellkite is especially good if you support a token theme in your cube, and are looking for fair, versatile answers to a token swarm; there's nothing better than nugging your opponent for five and then paying zero to eat half their board.
Figure is solid, but yeah. I agree with Eric, in testing Warden is better. In fact, in any Gx deck that plays W/B he is my favorite thing to see in an opening hand. A 3/3 (with haste essentially) on turn 2 is a very big problem for many decks. And while his lifelink/trample version is way over costed, the lifelink has come into play a few times. It's interesting how valuable a few points of life are later in the game. I've never seen his last ability happen, but I've never seen Figure turn into an 8/8 flyer either so that seems pretty irrelevant to me. It's really the first upgrade that has the value.
EDIT: I just want to say that the leveler type creatures are hugely impactful to how a game of magic will unfold IMO. And if they print more playable versions, I will run as many as I can. I love how they give aggressive strategies an option besides overextending. Oh, you aren't going to deal with my Student of Warfare? (level up)... What about now? Cool, I'll just keep sinking mana into it until you deal with it 1 for 1 or die from it.
EDIT: I just want to say that the leveler type creatures are hugely impactful to how a game of magic will unfold IMO. And if they print more playable versions, I will run as many as I can. I love how they give aggressive strategies an option besides overextending. Oh, you aren't going to deal with my Student of Warfare? (level up)... What about now? Cool, I'll just keep sinking mana into it until you deal with it 1 for 1 or die from it.
Not sure who still runs Overrun, but Overwhelming Stampede got some action this weekend and it was better actually. It's more splashable as GGG is much harder to hit than GG in multicolored decks.
My friend stole a game out of nowhere with stampede when he had a couple mana elves and a Wolfir Silverheart out and swung for like 40 trampling. I would have had plenty to block and alpha strike him back with had he only had overrun FWIW (I had a sizable force as well and his life total was low - he was dead next turn no matter what). Overrun is really only going to be better with a token army, but I really don't think tokens need more help being good so I'm very happy with this swap in my list.
Might sound like a corner case, but it's not hard to have one dude with 3+ power in a green deck, so the worst case scenario is an easier to cast overrun. BCS is turning out to be very high, like a much cheaper Craterhoof Behemoth high. This same deck resolved a stampede on a Simic Sky Swallower and a Birds of Paradise - swing for 18 flying with trample. I had a kamigawa dragon and a stinkweed imp out to block that. Didn't matter. I died anyway.
My friend stole a game out of nowhere with stampede when he had a couple mana elves and a Wolfir Silverheart out and swung for like 40 trampling. I would have had plenty to block and alpha strike him back with had he only had overrun FWIW (I had a sizable force as well and his life total was low - he was dead next turn no matter what). Overrun is really only going to be better with a token army, but I really don't think tokens need more help being good so I'm very happy with this swap in my list.
Might sound like a corner case, but it's not hard to have one dude with 3+ power in a green deck, so the worst case scenario is an easier to cast overrun. BCS is turning out to be very high, like a much cheaper Craterhoof Behemoth high. This same deck resolved a stampede on a Simic Sky Swallower and a Birds of Paradise - swing for 18 flying with trample. I had a kamigawa dragon and a stinkweed imp out to block that. Didn't matter. I died anyway.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Overrun is one of those cards honestly. I do like the better mana, but the higher BCS doesn't really add much for me.
I worry about the weakness to doom blade, since usually whichever creature is leading the charge doesn't have shroud like SSS does.
But then again, I've never been the hugeest fan of overrun in general
I worry about the weakness to doom blade, since usually whichever creature is leading the charge doesn't have shroud like SSS does.
But then again, I've never been the hugeest fan of overrun in general
Here's the thing though, I think stampede makes this situation BETTER for you, not worse. And here's why.
To get maximum effect from that doom blade, you have to do it before Overwhelming Stampede resolves. That means I know about it before the blowout happens in combat. I can abort mission. If you have doom blade and I swing, my overrun is probably not going to get me there in most cases, but it's much worse for me if you kill my wolfir silverheart or whatever after I swing versus before where I can just call off the strike. If you doom blade my wolfir after I land stampede, you still have potentially 2 9/9 trampling elves to deal with.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yes, but you were winning that game anyways, you untapped with a 5 drop named Wolfir Silverheart
It wins harder when you're even and winning, but it's just as useless while you're losing. It's easier to cast, but it's also vulnerable to instant speed removal occasionally (If you're really wide with one big creature, which does happen)
But hey, both cards are either useless, or end the game immediately
It wins harder when you're even and winning, but it's just as useless while you're losing. It's easier to cast, but it's also vulnerable to instant speed removal occasionally (If you're really wide with one big creature, which does happen)
But hey, both cards are either useless, or end the game immediately
In most cases, you are probably winning with an untapped soulbonded wolfir. Fair enough.
But not in every case. Deathtouch dudes on the other side of the fence for example make combat really awkward. That's definitely the exception to the rule, but I assure you my opponent was not winning that particular game without overwhelming stampede that turn. It stole the game for him. I had his board in an unwinnable position outside 40 trampling damage that he conjured out of thin air with this one card. It was literally the only thing in his entire deck that could have beaten me. Overrun would not have been enough.
Maybe this scenario never happens again, but I was thoroughly impressed with that card. Overrun is good, but it never did anything like that before. And he did it to me in two different matches against two different decks (you'd think I would have learned, but I had no way to kill sky swallower in the second match outside combat - which is pretty much impossible against a 12/12 flying creature with trample FWIW).
But not in every case. Deathtouch dudes on the other side of the fence for example make combat really awkward. That's definitely the exception to the rule, but I assure you my opponent was not winning that particular game without overwhelming stampede that turn. It stole the game for him. I had his board in an unwinnable position outside 40 trampling damage that he conjured out of thin air with this one card. It was literally the only thing in his entire deck that could have beaten me. Overrun would not have been enough.
Maybe this scenario never happens again, but I was thoroughly impressed with that card. Overrun is good, but it never did anything like that before. And he did it to me in two different matches against two different decks (you'd think I would have learned, but I had no way to kill sky swallower in the second match outside combat - which is pretty much impossible against a 12/12 flying creature with trample FWIW).
Dom Harvey
Contributor
GRBS, terrible, or somehow something in between?
Inconsistent is how I would rate Orcish Lumberjack. I've been running him for a bit and there are times he's crazy good as you can get 5 mana on turn two. In my cube (with next to no fast mana), that can get you an unrecoverable lead (but doesn't feel like GRBS since it sets you back a turn mana wise which is a very serious drawback). Other times though, you can't afford to sacrifice your only forest and so he's this underwhelming dork that needs equipment to not be utterly useless.
Part of me thinks I should just run Kird Ape instead and get a more consistent dude for Gruul/Naya aggro (or run something else entirely). But the potential on this guy is there and one drops with potential are in short supply. So I keep him in.
Part of me thinks I should just run Kird Ape instead and get a more consistent dude for Gruul/Naya aggro (or run something else entirely). But the potential on this guy is there and one drops with potential are in short supply. So I keep him in.
oh man i remember running him and Tinder Wall together to power out early Shambling Striders and Scaled Wurms. those were the days!
so yeah if you're running 1996 cube i say go all-in
so yeah if you're running 1996 cube i say go all-in