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Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Do not remember withering boon at all, but looks playable. The life loss might make it too narrow, as only BW control is going to be able to offset that really, and it plays into one of the weaknesses of UB control.

Speaking of oddball cards I just stumbled into



While there is an interesting approach to enchantment/artifact destruction.

I thought it was the green shoal being used in the modern deck?
 
safra

safra

okay never mind, i'm mistaken! Green shoal it is.

(modern RUG is so bad unfortunately i can't imagine it's propping up the price either)
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

Even though Mindcensor doesn't "turn off" searching, the fact that you can flash it in response to a tutor when it is likely crucial for your opponent to get a certain card; especially in disruptive weenies vs. Other where a silver bullet is likely employed to handle small creature decks. With something like Leonin Arbiter they can plan around it. Not to mention that it is evasive in addition to being a disruptive weenie. I imagine that for people who can only afford budget-style decks (which is a lot of people) it would seem to be a staple card.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Mindcensor was way more playable when Pod was a thing. I don't think I've actually seen it around much since then.

I've just traded for a copy of:



How sweet is this guy? What are some cool buybacks/sweet plays you've done?
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Grillo_Parlante said:
I think we may be getting lost in a semantics discussion over a slang term, which seems like a pretty poor place to be. Let us simply agree that tutors may still be played while mindcensor is in play.
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Turns out I graduated in natural language processing, so semantics is actually an interesting topic to me! Sorry bro :p I'm still curious. We call Kataki, War's Wage an artifact hoser, but you can still play artifacts while it is in play. You seem to have a very, very strict interpretation of hosing which leaves out a lot of cards that are "commonly" used as answers to certain strategies, play patterns, or card types. Kor Firewalker doesn't shut down red strategies like Melira, Sylvok Outcast shuts down infect, but it sure puts a massive, tortured frown on any red player's face. Anyway, point being that none of these cards prevent you from playing the cards they hose, so Mindcensor not preventing tutors being cast is totally irrelevant imho for purposes of determining whether it hoses tutors. What matters to me is that it has rules text right there on the card that makes (and is designed to make) tutors worse. Also, if a fellow player asked you for a card that hoses tutor effects (because, say, Pod and Scapeshift are popular in your meta (despite Pod being banned yes)), Aven Mindcensor and Shadow of Doubt are the two cards you will probably come up with.

Anyway, If, unlike me, you aren't interested in semantics, sorry for the long winded reply ;)

I do disagree that minscensor ever actually justified its price with performance, as it really isn't that good at what its advertised to do. While I am sure there was a period where it was a strong choice in constructed (evidently in 2013), price memory can be both fickle and frustrating. For example, I just checked the price for disrupting shoal, and that card (non-foil) is going for $16 still; its price riding off of the month long glory that was travis woo's ninja bear delver deck.

Just kind of frustrating the way card prices fall out sometimes.
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Totally. Price memory is indeed annoying, but once again, the supply isn't that big. I fully expect Mindcensor's price to drastically drop if they ever reprint it in a non-limited print run. Same with Disrupting Shoal. It isn't putting up any results, apart from a RUG Delver list here and there, so a reprint should bring the price crashing down.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Its fine. Long bitter history has taught me that once you see a semantics discussion on a web forum, run the other way because a flame war is oncoming. But lets try this and see if it cant be pleasent for once.

First, that isn't just my interpretation, and second, its not that strict. I actually took the hyper technical angle of googling 'hosed' and decisivly defeated was the definition that came up; there is still some wiggle room in that definition--its not total defeat.

This is also an example of where semantics discussions can get annoying, since we are spending time triangulating word meanings: kor firewalker 'shutting down red strategies' , for exsmple, sounds more extreme than what I am going for.

Thankfully, I have an easy cite for how mindcensor is not particularly good at 'hosing tutors': modern is a format dominated by tutors--fetchlands--yet you don't see anyone trying to capitalize on that by running out a turn 3 mindcensor and shutting off their land tutors. This is because you can still hit off of mindcensor a reasonable amount of the time, and people would thus rather look to bloodmoon for their hosing strategy.

Bloodmoon, being a card that may not completly shut off a deck from casting spells, but is impactful enough where I would call it a hoser. Far more impactfull than mindcensor.

And that is the ultimate problem with the card: it operates on a bell curve. At one end, a certain percentage of the time the op will hit off of mindcensor and the card will just be an over costed flyer. At the other end, it will completly wreak the op who will miss completly. In the middle, the op will still hit, and get something off of the tutor.

This is reflected in its play history as well, where its moment of glory is disrupting a super narrow tutor effect in birthing pod.

Don't get me wrong, the card is disruptive, it just has consistancy problems as a hoser, which is why I can't defend a 10$ price tag regardless of the size of its print run.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Grillo_Parlante said:
Its fine. Long bitter history has taught me that once you see a semantics discussion on a web forum, run the other way because a flame war is oncoming. But lets try this and see if it cant be pleasent for once.

[relevant wall of text :)]

Don't get me wrong, the card is disruptive, it just has consistancy problems as a hoser, which is why I can't defend a 10$ price tag regardless of the size of its print run.
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I don't like flame wars, but I do enjoy a good discussion! Given the number of fetchable lands a typical deck runs, it's not surprising that people aren't running Mindcensors to hose that strategy. It's really only good against narrow tutors like Birthing Pod, or mass tutors like Scapeshift. So, let's just compromise and say it hoses narrow tutors and mass tutors! ;)
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

ahadabans said:
Speaking of angels... is anyone still running the original? That was such a devastating card back in the day and nostalgia almost demands I run her. But boy does she look bogus next to Baneslayer (not that I run that card).
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I'd actually think it'd be sweet if we get an updated serra angel. A 4/4 vigilance beater but with some smart upside that makes it a bit more exciting and gives it more play. Not sure what, maybe a tithe or some way to manipulate the game in the control players favor?
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Rasmus Källqvist said:
I'd actually think it'd be sweet if we get an updated serra angel. A 4/4 vigilance beater but with some smart upside that makes it a bit more exciting and gives it more play. Not sure what, maybe a tithe or some way to manipulate the game in the control players favor?
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Extort?
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

They could easily just make a 3/5 Serra Angel with Lifelink and it'd be adored for about a month by everyone here until it got inevitably dubbed "slightly worse but still too annoying baneslayer"
 
Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth



Alesha, Who Smiles at Death has been insane and this guy feels like he could be similarly powerful for white decks. The ability costs a third mana but he has vigilance and 4 toughness making him a great wall and about as good as surviving combat as a 3/2 first strike. He doesn't combo with Hornet Queen but there are a lot of powerful 3 drops in cube that Alesha can't bring back and can be really sweet to repeatedly recur. I'm not really sure how much I would to include him though so, thoughts?
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Tzenmoroth said:


Alesha, Who Smiles at Death has been insane and this guy feels like he could be similarly powerful for white decks. The ability costs a third mana but he has vigilance and 4 toughness making him a great wall and about as good as surviving combat as a 3/2 first strike. He doesn't combo with Hornet Queen but there are a lot of powerful 3 drops in cube that Alesha can't bring back and can be really sweet to repeatedly recur. I'm not really sure how much I would to include him though so, thoughts?
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Alesha is a solid body to attack with; a 3/2 first striker is solid for 3, and is a friendly build-around that can do some pretty cray-cray things. She also holds equipment like a champ. This Whiteclay fellow? I hate untap cards, and his 1/4 body is pathetic to be swinging with, guaranteeing that he probably won't kill anything and will easily be double-blocked and killed himself. That he has types that are generally irrelevant is another kicker. Also, I hate kithkin and usually have a strong desire to punch them. I'd say pass.
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist



I drafted a really sweet GB control deck using this and a languish among other things. Is it worth running in cube? I'm really not sure if its on the strong or weak side. During the draft I got a good 4-5 bodies out of it and plays nicely with ramp cards, so I think it does good things in terms of making the top of the deck feel good for the pilot. I'm unsure how it feels for the opposing player though, but probably it's fine since you can pressure it pretty easily?
 
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