Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

[Jason Waddell]

what turn do your games end at? we're usually around 7-9 which is why I was wondering about the density of targets. The fetch triggers are cute but I'm I guess wondering if it's broadly okay as well as narrowly fantastic. I'll slot it in and see what happens!

Just run an excessive number of Brainstorms so that people can shuffle them away.

I'd say usually it doesn't sit dead in hand the entire game. It's a high-variance card though. Sometimes you do hit their fetch and it doesn't even really affect the course of the game. Sometimes Stifle wins in scenarios where no other card can. It's not really a grand slam card, but my recommendation would be just to try it and see if you like it. My playgroup had a lot of Legacy players who likely overvalued it, and maybe some playgroups won't really want it at all.

 

[CML]

I run it. It's a super fun card, usually finds some target, occasionally is a ridiculously memorable blowout. I think it's a big net fun plus, my players loved drafting it and waiting for the absurd scenarios that would occur.

never worked here. anyone for



(still not i)

 

[Diakonov]

never worked here. anyone for



(still not i)

While we're at it

 

[safra]

Maaaaybe Bind, it fits my design goal of making non-blue colours more like blue and blue more like red

 

[Jason Waddell]

I run all of them (sans Voidslime) in the polycube. The cantripping ones are super playable, especially Shadow of Doubt, which doesn't need to target and blanks a large number of effects in the cube. I haven't counted, but I'd guess more than 10% of cards in my list search libraries, and functionally, a greater percentage when you consider that fetchlands get maindecked nearly 100% of the time.

 

[Aston]

It's been tearing up standard but has anyone tried



Fetchable with Trinket Mage!

 

[Chris Taylor]

It's been tearing up standard but has anyone tried



Fetchable with Trinket Mage!

I'm currently trying it, but I think it's a bit more Epochrasite than the powerhouse it is in standard (I mean, unless ensoul artifact is in your ULD)
But I wouldn't dismiss a decent early creature having quite a bit of value when played late. I've loved Mikaeus, the Lunarch and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden for just randomly showing up as titans every now and again, and this guy trades being smaller for having a death trigger for fliers

 

[Diakonov]

Wow, upon checking my cube I found that a THIRD of it contains activated abilities. Time to test Stifle and Bind.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I never had much success running mindcensor, shadow of doubt, or any of the stile effects. They were always too unreliable, and really are just super narrow disruptive effects. To help put why in perspective, most of us are probably running 8-15% of our cubes as artifacts and enchantments, yet no one really gets excited about disenchant.

Even the LD effect wasn't that impressive: with 20 fetchlands thats only around 5% of a 360, so about 2-3 fetches per person in a draft. The instances where you could stile their fetch and it felt like it mattered was just not that common. To make matters worse, no one likes birthing pod here, so that potentially satisfying target rarely came up.

They are really fun cards in the sense that it is so satisfying to "get" someone with them, but I found that when you ignored the highs, and looked at their average performance, they just weren't very good. They were always underdrafted, and when something like SOD came up, it was usually just cycled away under pressure.

Also, how is mindcensor a $10 card?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Also, how is mindcensor a $10 card?

It's a staple uncommon in multiple formats from an underprinted, old, third set, that has never been reprinted?

Edit: MKM has only 593 Mindcensors on sale, but 2268 Young Pyromancers. It is a pretty rare uncommon. In fact, there are more Tarmogoyfs for sale, now that it has been reprinted twice, than Mindcensors (822 at the moment of writing this post).

 

[ahadabans]

I sold my Mindcensor playset for $10 each. That's a laughable amount of money for that card IMO.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Yeah, I really wouldn't call it a staple. The other $10 uncommons I know of--remand and cabal therepy--are actual great cards. Mindsensor seems very middling.

 

[CML]

Yeah, I really wouldn't call it a staple. The other $10 uncommons I know of--remand and cabal therepy--are actual great cards. Mindsensor seems very middling.

definitely a constructed card and not a very good one at that. demand is kept in check by people who have tried it wanting to offload theirs

 

[Onderzeeboot]

definitely a constructed card and not a very good one at that. demand is kept in check by people who have tried it wanting to offload theirs

It used to be very good though. I think this is a good example of low supply coupled with price memory. It's also pretty good in Commander, where the stats aren't as relevant but the tutor hosing is. That too keeps the price up.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

The thing is mindcensor dosen't actually hose tutors: it just makes them worse cards.

I actually can't remember off hand any tier 1 deck where it was a staple in--it always seems to be a sb card or a hate bears card. Death and taxes maybe? I don't think it was a main decked 4 of there.

It might just be commander inflating the price.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The thing is mindcensor dosen't actually hose tutors: it just makes them worse cards.

Do we have a different interpretation of what constitutes "hosing"? Because to me you're contradicting yourself.

Edit: Also, staples need not be maindeck cards.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Do we have a different interpretation of what constitutes "hosing"? Because to me you're contradicting yourself.

It would seem so. "Hosing" is a euphemism meaning "screwed" or "decisively defeated." You can still hit off a mindscensored tutor and get value from it, which may or may not win you the game. Thats the weakness of the card.

 

[shamizy]

Sees zero play in commander, I've never seen in once in my life. It was a sideboard card in Modern a while back, not as good anymore. I think it's just price memory right now and the fact that the only printing was in Future Sight.

 

[Lucre]

I would be happy with more than one epochrasite going around.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

It would seem so. "Hosing" is a euphemism meaning "screwed" or "decisively defeated." You can still hit off a mindscensored tutor and get value from it, which may or may not win you the game. Thats the weakness of the card.

We use hosing as "screws over X", and Mindcensor does screw over tutors. It makes them a lot less reliable, making them whiff or finding weaker targets. So even if it doesn't work a 100% of the time, I would still call it a tutor hoser.

Anyway, it sees/saw play in the mainboards of mainly Death & Taxes and various Pod decks, and in the sideboard of various white decks. It saw play in a number of high finishes, though almost never a four of, it still is/was an popular and effective tool at foiling certain strategies. Of course its effectiveness as a mainboard or sideboard card depends on the metagame. When Scapeshift and Pod decks were all the rage, it was a pretty solid card against either strategy.

Accolades:
GP Boston 2014- Junk
GP Prague 2014 - UWr Midrange
GP Detroit 2013- Birthing Pod
GP Kansas City 2013 - Birthing Pod
GP Portland 2013 - Birthing Pod
GP Strassbourg 2013 - Death & Tax
GP Bilbao 2013 - UWr Midrange

And then some results before 2014

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I think we may be getting lost in a semantics discussion over a slang term, which seems like a pretty poor place to be. Let us simply agree that tutors may still be played while mindcensor is in play.

I do disagree that minscensor ever actually justified its price with performance, as it really isn't that good at what its advertised to do. While I am sure there was a period where it was a strong choice in constructed (evidently in 2013), price memory can be both fickle and frustrating. For example, I just checked the price for disrupting shoal, and that card (non-foil) is going for $16 still; its price riding off of the month long glory that was travis woo's ninja bear delver deck.

Just kind of frustrating the way card prices fall out sometimes.

 

[Dom Harvey]

 

[safra]

I never had much success running mindcensor, shadow of doubt, or any of the stile effects. They were always too unreliable, and really are just super narrow disruptive effects. To help put why in perspective, most of us are probably running 8-15% of our cubes as artifacts and enchantments, yet no one really gets excited about disenchant.

Even the LD effect wasn't that impressive: with 20 fetchlands thats only around 5% of a 360, so about 2-3 fetches per person in a draft. The instances where you could stile their fetch and it felt like it mattered was just not that common. To make matters worse, no one likes birthing pod here, so that potentially satisfying target rarely came up.

They are really fun cards in the sense that it is so satisfying to "get" someone with them, but I found that when you ignored the highs, and looked at their average performance, they just weren't very good. They were always underdrafted, and when something like SOD came up, it was usually just cycled away under pressure.

Also, how is mindcensor a $10 card?

disenchant is really good here and went 6-8th pick consistently while I had it, FYI. Much more appealing than Revoke Existence, counterintuitively.

I think maybe I'll try Bind over Stifle, can tripping raises the floor a lil. Don't like the split second on trickbind or I'd choose that but I think Bind will have some interesting utility as a Swiss Army knife. Maybe I need more flash dudes, too (always)

I've tried SOD and Stifle in constructed and liked them (canadian thresh is legacy's most sublime deck) but without running four it's just hard to know you'll cast it when you need to. A third brainstorm sounds like another good choice. The number of creatures with ETBs that are basically spells pushes against the viability of my Negate / Remove Soul distinction, too, so maybe I should avoid Stifle for, uh, some other creature counterspell.

Has anyone tried ? Black might like countering creatures it can't kill.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

re Gemblades

That's a weird card. 2 mana for 4 power is a ridiculous deal, but the condition is hard to trigger in a timely manner. It even says "combat damage" so you can't get it from a fireslinger or epic confrontation. And if they have a doom blade in there hand, they probably don't even care about triggering it. Even though its not exactly the same, I'd prefer Hunger of the Howlpack basically always and I'm totally in love with shoving cards with enchantment type in where ever possible.

 

[safra]

I think we may be getting lost in a semantics discussion over a slang term, which seems like a pretty poor place to be. Let us simply agree that tutors may still be played while mindcensor is in play.

I do disagree that minscensor ever actually justified its price with performance, as it really isn't that good at what its advertised to do. While I am sure there was a period where it was a strong choice in constructed (evidently in 2013), price memory can be both fickle and frustrating. For example, I just checked the price for disrupting shoal, and that card (non-foil) is going for $16 still; its price riding off of the month long glory that was travis woo's ninja bear delver deck.

Just kind of frustrating the way card prices fall out sometimes.

oh shoot also shoal is powering two cool modern decks, Grishoalbrand and shitty RUG Delver