Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

[vennythekid]

People need to put more effort into their support for big red decks.

For reasons I detailed above, this card does so, so much to support big red decks. I'm not going to go over the utility that it gives decks again. I've done that already. But keep in mind Goggles is a ramp card first and foremost. "Big Red" needs mana, and my cube doesn't run many mana rocks in the first place. Going from 5 mana to 7 is not insignificant in my environment when Battleball, Avenger of Zendikar and Karn are the main ramp targets. FWIW, I don't have Wildfire in my Cube.

Ohhhh so it's a win more card for a very specific deck people don't play every draft because if it's intense Colour requirements?

I don't consider it win more, and in fact it very rarely shows up in Grixis at all. It primarily sees play in spell-based GR decks that play fireball variants as finishers.

"The Dream" is just an exciting prospect for drafters to put together two cards that interact very well together that probably never will see play next to each other in any other format. But that's the spirit of Cube draft, is it not? Is it not enough if just one deck a month (that's like 1 out of 32+ decks) has a blast playing that combo?


What's your idea of "effort" for these Big Red decks?

 

[Lucre]

In a deck that has a lot of trouble fixing it's draws its just hard for me to believe this is the kinda card (that is literally an expensive land without specific support cards) that's gonna fix big reds problems. Just throwing in a gimmicky 5 drop in a sea of attacking small bodied creatures and hellriders doesn't really allay my suspicions.

Great standalone walkers, 3+5 drops and fair sweepers have been what's made red more diverse of late

It kinda reminds me of asking myself, would talrand be better if it only worked with one colour, was lower impact, had less relevant stats and was more expensive? I mean I know it survives wrath a little better but it's also in the wrong colours for finding X matters cards.

Maybe I just haven't given it a big enough chance but it's also just super expensive I dunno I hate cards that table so hard like that and are so low impact when you aren't running so hot.

 

[sigh]

I think it makes a pretty cool target in the "Red Artifacts" deck. Goblin welder also works here. Even turning your Tormenting voice into discard 1 draw 4 isn't half shabby, especially in this scenario where it could happen on T4. On T3, this could turn into Daretti -> sac Sphere -> get off a double bolt/firebolt/burst lightning/pillar of flame/flame slash. An you've got T1 to dump it in the yard with faithless looting! Probably this scenario happens a turn or two later, but still awesome. It's like, if your cube has the Ultimatum, you already have committed one slot to a 1-in-30-decks-the-magic-happened scenario, so why not this one more?
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[Onderzeeboot]

Maybe I just haven't given it a big enough chance but it's also just super expensive I dunno I hate cards that table so hard like that and are so low impact when you aren't running so hot.

It could very well be that our playgroups differ, but since I started cubing with this, it hasn't tabled often, and when it did it still got people talking and they were like "I wished I could have picked that up, but I didn't have enough red spell!"

 

[vennythekid]

In a deck that has a lot of trouble fixing it's draws its just hard for me to believe this is the kinda card (that is literally an expensive land without specific support cards) that's gonna fix big reds problems. Just throwing in a gimmicky 5 drop in a sea of attacking small bodied creatures and hellriders doesn't really allay my suspicions.

Great standalone walkers, 3+5 drops and fair sweepers have been what's made red more diverse of late

It kinda reminds me of asking myself, would talrand be better if it only worked with one colour, was lower impact, had less relevant stats and was more expensive? I mean I know it survives wrath a little better but it's also in the wrong colours for finding X matters cards.

Maybe I just haven't given it a big enough chance but it's also just super expensive I dunno I hate cards that table so hard like that and are so low impact when you aren't running so hot.

The mentality that red is just "a sea of attacking small bodied red drops" is probably why this card falls short for you. Red can be that but it can also be much more than that if we allow it to be.

Outside of Chandra, Pyromaster and Daretti, Scrap Savant, standalone walkers in red are fairly uninteresting, and as sigh has already said Daretti is a reason to include the Goggles. Sarkhan and Koth are just more medium-sized bodies, which are kind of meh.

Sure the floor on this card might be lower than average but I think the ceiling is high enough (in my opinion) and it occupies a unique enough mechanical space to make it worth a slot in my list.

 

[Lucre]

The mentality that red is just "a sea of attacking small bodied red drops" is probably why this card falls short for you. Red can be that but it can also be much more than that if we allow it to be.

Outside of Chandra, Pyromaster and Daretti, Scrap Savant, standalone walkers in red are fairly uninteresting, and as sigh has already said Daretti is a reason to include the Goggles. Sarkhan and Koth are just more medium-sized bodies, which are kind of meh.
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I dunno a artifact based red deck that is reliant on a planes walker it has trouble searching for as well as consistently playing red instants and sorcereries late game always felt like a stretch to me. This card really feels like a more awkward miraris wake to me. Here's your five cost mana thing that has a sorta situation bonus that can be quite impactful, except the mana thing it does is less impactful and the bonus is more narrow.

I think it's really too bad you find the red walkers so uninteresting, I think having more good ubiquitously useful cards that don't pigeon hole you into specific archetypes is probably the way forward for red. That and giving a little more depth to the 4 slot than "haste attacker".

I honestly play a lot of red in decks and things are getting better, I really like basing more of my control and midranged decks on pressure and inevitability but everyone wants the sweet burn spells and ftks but only one doofus wants the RR bear lol so it can still be an uphill battle lol right.

I dunno I used to be such a proponent of including kiki packages (probz without classic twin targets) for a sweet value midgame or late game combo for land destruction decks. And I still love artifact based wildfire decks so I don't know why I hate this welder into 5cc do nothing card deck so much but it really feels flat to me for some reason.

I love the thought of sacrificing an epochrasite or hanger back but the incentive would have to be there and holding my volcanic hammers till I've cast my tinker clone so something actually happens ain't really it.

 

[sigh]

Looks like the card isn't for you then. I personally think it'd be a solid role-player into helping Red stretch into a more controlling color. FWIW, I don't run it either, but certainly wouldn't mind if I had one.

On Daretti, it's my vote for "most interesting red walker", and most certainly doesn't pigeonhole you into one archetype. Just a random sampling of what popped into my head. Just his looting ability alone makes him incredibly strong. We're talking delve, flashback, recursion, lhurgoyfs, artifacts, other card draw. Love the card.

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[vennythekid]

The "red artifact" decks don't have to be reliant on their planeswalker to be strong though. I prefer my "artifact decks" to be fairly incidental outside of a few more narrow cards like Thopter Spy Network and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. FWIW I don't run Deretti but he's another direction you can go.

My four drops in red are far from "red hasty dudes." My current 4-drops in (mono) red are:


But to be fair, my environment rarely produces mono-colored decks (fixing is strong enough and my group is such that 2+ color decks are generally preferred).

I think having more good ubiquitously useful cards that don't pigeon hole you into specific archetypes is probably the way forward for red.

Replace "red" with any other color and this statement sounds like you want decks to be a mash-up of ubiquitously strong midrange cards with no theme or synergy. While this idea isn't wrong in any sense (in fact in many Cube circles this is absolutely correct), it's not the sort of idea I want to prescribe to my design. So maybe our differences in red philosophy stem from difference in this type of thinking, which is also fine.

 

[Lucre]

Yeah it seems okay as an expensive looter if you ain't in the artifact deck, but I gotta wonder, wouldn't mirari be kinda a more ubiquitous than this mono red one? Like let people double their secure the wastes as well as their magma jets etc. What's 3 more mana when you're doubling your volcanic hammer right bros?

 

[sigh]

Yeah, he's more than ok, because it's 2 new cards seen, which is so much more powerful than just 1. The card quality he gives is astounding. Dack fayden is admittedly stronger, but also two colors and much more $$.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I don't really like the goggles, its not what I want from 5 mana. Starfield of Nyx is really where I want to be with do nothing 5 drops.

Daretti, though, is pure awesome. He digs so deep. You don't need to build around him at all and I don't think the red artifact deck relies on him, but he's a strong incentive.

That said, I'm really thinking new Chandra might be the sweetest red walker. I think she slots in at the right power level (ie below inferno titan) and has amazing utility. Its a card that I'll see in pack 2 and will make me contemplate slowing my curve to play her,

 

[Eric Chan]

Yeah, I really have my hopes for Big Red pinned on Chandra, Flamecaller. I don't think she's the most powerful red six drop ever printed, but that category is sorely lacking in playables to begin with. Between her versatility and the fact that she's wildly different from most every other six drop out there, I'm well and thoroughly optimistic about her chances.

 

[Lucre]

The "red artifact" decks don't have to be reliant on their planeswalker to be strong though. I prefer my "artifact decks" to be fairly incidental outside of a few more narrow cards like Thopter Spy Network and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. FWIW I don't run Deretti but he's another direction you can go.

My four drops in red are far from "red hasty dudes." My current 4-drops in (mono) red are:



Replace "red" with any other color and this statement sounds like you want decks to be a mash-up of ubiquitously strong midrange cards with no theme or synergy. While this idea isn't wrong in any sense (in fact in many Cube circles this is absolutely correct), it's not the sort of idea I want to prescribe to my design. So maybe our differences in red philosophy stem from difference in this type of thinking, which is also fine.

I'd say red's historic lack of range has been because people were more interested in building around archetype support than around range. It's weird how easy it is to bring up the boogie monster of "goodstuff" decks and the convenient association between that and "traditional" or "powermax" cubes but you've got to see that is not at all how powermax cubes work. Red is almost always just an aggro deck or support splash in those cubes, the sections come to be built around powerful themes, just as fast mana is something powermax designers actively compliment and support or unequal sweepers like balance or upheaval. It just happens wizards has created more of a ghetto around red than the other colours.

Cards like seeker of the way don't make cubes more stagnant, they make card pools deeper for a greater variety of white decks.

 

[Aston]

If not Pyromancer's Goggles, what about Mirari, a less efficient way to do the same thing.

It's colour agnostic though!

 

[Tzenmoroth]

The fact that I'm posting a card on this thread probably means its complete trash but... Grove of the Burnwillows is a card, red is very capable of dishing out damage in small quantities and if pulled off, its basically the most hilarious thing in the game. But is it maindeckable?

 

[frostymoose]

Combo with Magister Sphinx and Sorin markov!

Is it maindeckable? I think the question is whether it is pickable to begin with. Anyone that is picking it in the first 10 cards of a pack has got to be forcing it.

The most likely way I'd try it would be in a gimmick Lore seeker pack. I can see the possibility of it being fun.

 

[Laz]

The most likely way I'd try it would be in a gimmick Lore seeker pack. I can see the possibility of it being fun.

I recall a thread with random concepts for gimmicky Lore Seeker packs, one full of power, one full of Grizzly Bears...

Did anyone ever do any testing with that?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

The fact that I'm posting a card on this thread probably means its complete trash but... Grove of the Burnwillows is a card, red is very capable of dishing out damage in small quantities and if pulled off, its basically the most hilarious thing in the game. But is it maindeckable?

Its pretty essential in the legacy troll delver archetype

Seriously, its probably not cubeable, but it looks like a great story card.

 

[Lucre]

Include one copy in your bring to light decks lol

 

[Lucre]

On that subject



What does everyone think about having 4 mana deal six in their cubes? Seems kinda bullshit to me but I like the other modes attached.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

On that subject



What does everyone think about having 4 mana deal six in their cubes? Seems kinda bullshit to me but I like the other modes attached.

Well, Lava Axe is a really shitty card, and this is just one damage more for essentially the same cost, what with one colored mana often being replaceable by two colorless in Wizards' design philosophy. I also love that, because of the sweeper mode, it essentially is playable in both aggro and control oriented decks.

 

[safra]

More importantly it's very walker-heavy face burn imo, I've yet to actually lava axe someone but do pick the mode sometimes to finish cleaning up the board

 

[Lucre]

Well, Lava Axe is a really shitty card, and this is just one damage more for essentially the same cost, what with one colored mana often being replaceable by two colorless in Wizards' design philosophy. I also love that, because of the sweeper mode, it essentially is playable in both aggro and control oriented decks.

I'm not sure we are having an in-context discussion right now. I'm talking about in cube magic. We all know it's laughable to consider Axe in cube, but this card is not axe. My cube aggro decks usually aren't going to 5 mana until board for one thing. Have you guys played with the fear of this card because I'm not sure if daze-fear really compares. Especially in this age where every red 2drop is hard to profitably block and has probably done 2-3 to you by the time you can get around to dealing with it without losing something you were trying to cultivate.

If we're gonna cube this thing we should probably figure out some of the black can't block + doesn't know how to gain life well issues it has as well as rethinking trying to make removal all sorcery speed or 3cc to deal with increasingly powerful aggressive 1,2 and 3 drops. Blocking can sometimes look like a great solution but honestly it often makes creature matchups look like a question of which player got to play first.

The card is more than a third of your life total if you've fetched for an untapped shockland lol. I mean I like scary breakneck formats but generally when everyone has the tools. Just keep it in mind as you start seeing players pick it up.

 

[Eric Chan]

I don't like that six to the dome is a possibility with Fiery Confluence, but I also don't see aggro drafters picking this card as highly as their midrange and control counterparts, who are more likely to value the sweeper mode, as well as the flexibility. As safra said, being able to mop up planeswalkers along with all the little critters seems important. Lava Axe shenanigans aside, I think Fiery Confluence is a ways away from Mystic Confluence, and seems safe enough (for now!) in cube.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I'm not sure we are having an in-context discussion right now. I'm talking about in cube magic. We all know it's laughable to consider Axe in cube, but this card is not axe.

Well, yes, I know. What I was trying to get at is that I liked Lava Axe in limited games when it was available as a reach option, but that it is unplayable. This is a playable Lava Axe. 6 is scary, but there is only this one card, and it deals no more damage than a 2 power one drop or a 3 power two drop would have dealt by turn 4.