Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
My guess is if you do it all on MTGO the spawn/scion thing won't be that bad, since everything's P/T are calculated by the computer, so you don't just have a die sitting on the table and you go "Wait, was that a spawn or a scion?"
I would try
for starters if doubling tokens is something you think you'll want. Doubling Season tends to be GRBS (or a minimum very annoying) with Plansewalkers in my experience.
I'm not into it. Do people really play planeswalkers for their ultimate? Don't you never get there?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I just ultimated Ob Nixilis this very weekend! And it won me the game
I think Nahiri is a swell planeswalker. Powerful without being insurmountable, fun in a multitude of decks. If there are some white reanimation spells in your cube, she is pretty cool in that archetype!
Nahiri gets there relatively often, actually.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've also reached ultimate in Tamiyo and Venser, and been on the receiving end of Koth and old Kiora. Oh! And I actually ultimated Karn once! As obnoxious as Karn is, that was pretty sweet I'ld say it happens often enough!
I'ld say it happens often enough!
I won a game against old Kiora emblem. And Stitcher Geralf of all cards was how. Cube is weird sometimes.
It works with Nahiri b/c it's just two activations and you're already there. Just protect her for two turns and ult for the win, it's the biggest draw to her and why she's Modern playable. You almost never minus unless there's a must deal with threat on the other side of the board.
Cool. It's starting to sound quite interesting.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I ult garruk wildspeaker all the time
Can either of these be fair? Are their cool factors worth the loss of "fairness"?
edit: now with not broken images!
Can either of these be fair? Are their cool factors worth the loss of "fairness"?
edit: now with not broken images!
I think it really depends on your cube, in the case of Show and Tell. It -can- be a fair card, but that all depends on the threats you have to cheat in with it, and the answers you have to those threats. For example, Show and Tell is in my cube, but my cube is heavily specced for answers, almost to the point where Show and tell is a trap. Almost.
Threats to cheat in with show and tell (note that there are smaller value creatures you can throw in, but these are the ones that you really wanna get out there.):
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite,
Angel of Serenity,
Inkwell Leviathan,
Consecrated Sphinx,
Griselbrand,
Sheoldred, Whispering One,
Inferno Titan,
Woodfall Primus,
Terastadon,
Dragonlord Silumgar,
Dragonlord Atarka,
Sphinx of the Steel Wind,
Blightsteel Colossus,
Myr Battlesphere,
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth,
Ulamog, The infinite Gyre,
Emrakul, The Promised End,
Sundering Titan.
Answers to said threats (I will not count counterspelling Show and Tell, as that much is obvious. I am also not including simple 'destroy' removal, as it does not deal with all threats effectively.)
Karakas (some)
Dragonlord Silumgar
Oblivion Ring
Council's Judgement
Banishing Light
Faith's Fetters
Fiend Hunter
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Unexpectedly Absent
Condemn (allows attack, so 2 Eldrazi titans 'get through.')
Control Magic
Treachery
Sower of Temptation
Vapor Snag
Into the Roil
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Song of the Dryads
Crackling Doom
Brutal Expulsion
Dack Fayden (some)
Reflector Mage
Duplicant.
Tl;dr, I think it's fine of the "answers" meet the "threats" fairly. As the threats increase in power, so too must the answers. Answers that you can Show and Tell in (O-ring, Duplicant, etc.) are vastly preferable but even StP can 'negate' the advantage of a Show and Tell.
I think Berserk is fine if you aren't running infect. It's efficiency matters less in draft than in constructed, and I don't think it's so much better than, say, Bloodrushing a Ghor-Clan Rampager. It can get a little dirty, but you -do- need to pump the target first to make it worth it. The destroy clause helps balance it.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Double strike effects in fair formats:
Most safe, doesn't grant evasion, opponent knows it coming, requires setup and careful play. 1cc cost helps offset all of the limitations.
Instant speed, but 3cc cost is a bit constricting (telegraphs its presence somewhat), and doesn't grant evasion. Can still be kind of boring with 4+ power midrange threats, rather than when in a cube comprised primarily of lower cc, lower P/x aggro threats. Ideally you want something of a combo element where this is the second buff being cast in the turn.
Instant speed and grants evasion, but at least costs 3cc, which helps put some limitations on it and telegraphs its present somewhat. Much more boring with 4+ power midrange threats. I would be much more comfortable with this card in cube with more low P/x aggro threats, since while you don't have to setup as much (you already have evasion) it might still have the feeling of a two card combo to hit critical damage.
Least safe. All of the same pros and cons of fatal frenzy, but can operate at a very low mana threshold, which means it doesn't really telegraph at all.
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You can run berserk, its just sometimes going to suck for an opponent much more than the other cards.
Most safe, doesn't grant evasion, opponent knows it coming, requires setup and careful play. 1cc cost helps offset all of the limitations.
Instant speed, but 3cc cost is a bit constricting (telegraphs its presence somewhat), and doesn't grant evasion. Can still be kind of boring with 4+ power midrange threats, rather than when in a cube comprised primarily of lower cc, lower P/x aggro threats. Ideally you want something of a combo element where this is the second buff being cast in the turn.
Instant speed and grants evasion, but at least costs 3cc, which helps put some limitations on it and telegraphs its present somewhat. Much more boring with 4+ power midrange threats. I would be much more comfortable with this card in cube with more low P/x aggro threats, since while you don't have to setup as much (you already have evasion) it might still have the feeling of a two card combo to hit critical damage.
Least safe. All of the same pros and cons of fatal frenzy, but can operate at a very low mana threshold, which means it doesn't really telegraph at all.
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You can run berserk, its just sometimes going to suck for an opponent much more than the other cards.
Double strike effects in fair formats:
Most safe, doesn't grant evasion, opponent knows it coming, requires setup and careful play. 1cc cost helps offset all of the limitations.
Instant speed, but 3cc cost is a bit constricting (telegraphs its presence somewhat), and doesn't grant evasion. Can still be kind of boring with 4+ power midrange threats, rather than when in a cube comprised primarily of lower cc, lower P/x aggro threats. Ideally you want something of a combo element where this is the second buff being cast in the turn.
Instant speed and grants evasion, but at least costs 3cc, which helps put some limitations on it and telegraphs its present somewhat. Much more boring with 4+ power midrange threats. I would be much more comfortable with this card in cube with more low P/x aggro threats, since while you don't have to setup as much (you already have evasion) it might still have the feeling of a two card combo to hit critical damage.
Least safe. All of the same pros and cons of fatal frenzy, but can operate at a very low mana threshold, which means it doesn't really telegraph at all.
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You can run berserk, its just sometimes going to suck for an opponent much more than the other cards.
You're forgetting the most brutal of them all: temur battle rage.
What makes battlerage worse (as in less fair) than berserk?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its debatable, but the fact you get to keep the creature with battlerage is pretty great, and I don't like how the formidable clause suggests its best paired with midrange threats.
Though I suppose zerks raw efficiency makes it more "unfair"?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Better: Your creature gets to attack again next turn.
Worse:
Remember that the rule of combat tricks holds true for Berserk as well as the rest of these cards: The better/more efficient instant speed removal your format has, the worse these tricks become.
Show and Tell looks... difficult to balance, at best. Just looking through my list, some of my payoff cards for stuff like reanimator and Daretti break S&T right in half. Biggest Offenders I can see in my list are:
griselbrand
myr battlesphere
with a lot of close contenders like
sphinx of uthuun
linvala, the preserver
angel of serenity
soul of shandalar
sould of innistrad
It's just... some of those aren't insane with S&T, but they still are huge bodies that are great when ramped out early. One hand disruption spell to scout ahead and maybe clear the way, and BAM. Huge threat ahead of time. But like... Griselbrand.... Come on. One would have to flatten and lower the CMC curve quite a good amount, to make it more of a value proposition than a cheaty one, but it still favors midrange and control greatly as it punishes the low curve of fast aggro. And it's not optimal to use removal efficiency as a safety valve. Legacy has access to the most efficient remoal in the game, but a S&T or reanimated threat can still be game ending. This is the classic argument for allowing cheaty stuff: "well, it can just be removed/blocked/etc". Yeah, maybe... or it could just stampede the game to a close. It's very swingy, is what I'm getting at. Very all or nothing, kinda.
griselbrand
myr battlesphere
with a lot of close contenders like
sphinx of uthuun
linvala, the preserver
angel of serenity
soul of shandalar
sould of innistrad
It's just... some of those aren't insane with S&T, but they still are huge bodies that are great when ramped out early. One hand disruption spell to scout ahead and maybe clear the way, and BAM. Huge threat ahead of time. But like... Griselbrand.... Come on. One would have to flatten and lower the CMC curve quite a good amount, to make it more of a value proposition than a cheaty one, but it still favors midrange and control greatly as it punishes the low curve of fast aggro. And it's not optimal to use removal efficiency as a safety valve. Legacy has access to the most efficient remoal in the game, but a S&T or reanimated threat can still be game ending. This is the classic argument for allowing cheaty stuff: "well, it can just be removed/blocked/etc". Yeah, maybe... or it could just stampede the game to a close. It's very swingy, is what I'm getting at. Very all or nothing, kinda.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
You would never run it in a normal list. The cards would have to be powered back to when sneak attack was whipping out weatherseed treefolk or verdant force was the fatty of choice. Something like show and tell -> arcanis the omnipotent: just a very old, and alien, slice of magic's history compared to how we generally build around today.
It would be kind of interesting too as a way to cast CCC spells.
I think this becomes an interesting example of high power spells low power creatures, which ahabhdans been trying out for a bit.
As Grillo illustrates, the impact level of a card like show and tell can be capped by lowering the efficiency of your creatures.
As Grillo illustrates, the impact level of a card like show and tell can be capped by lowering the efficiency of your creatures.
