Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

Chriskool

Chriskool

I am tempted to play this as a reward for red-based control but am concerned that Rolling Thunder is feel bad:


Does anyone have experience playing against it? What none-blue cards would have good counterpart at lower power levels? My goto at the moment is:
 
shamizy

shamizy

I remember when I first began cubing that Elspeth, Knight-Errant was one of the more powerful walkers available in the format and could straight up dominate games in multiple archetypes.



With current design, do you think she's still at that same power level or that the competition around her and the tools that we've gotten have lessened the gap? We've had such an influx of pushed design and powerful walkers over the years that I'm not quite sure where I'd put this without actual testing, but that's not possible in the short term. I haven't tried the card in years, would love to hear any experiences/thoughts.

I like the new Elspeth from THB and think it plays interestingly enough across various archetypes, but I've had a copy of this one sitting around for years and I miss it. Elspeth is my favorite character from the game and Knight-Errant has some of my favorite art in the entire game so I'd like to see it in a cube pack sometime :p
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

shamizy said:
I remember when I first began cubing that Elspeth, Knight-Errant was one of the more powerful walkers available in the format and could straight up dominate games in multiple archetypes.



With current design, do you think she's still at that same power level or that the competition around her and the tools that we've gotten have lessened the gap? We've had such an influx of pushed design and powerful walkers over the years that I'm not quite sure where I'd put this without actual testing, but that's not possible in the short term. I haven't tried the card in years, would love to hear any experiences/thoughts.

I like the new Elspeth from THB and think it plays interestingly enough across various archetypes, but I've had a copy of this one sitting around for years and I miss it. Elspeth is my favorite character from the game and Knight-Errant has some of my favorite art in the entire game so I'd like to see it in a cube pack sometime :p
Click to expand...

I think the workable power band for a Riptide style cube is far higher than it used to be thanks to some of the more recent cards produced by WOTC. Although I think Elspeth, Knight-Errant is a very powerful card, I think it's not unreasonably strong in today's cubes. Elspeth is my favorite character as well, so I'd advocate her inclusion if you're into her.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb


Has anyone of you had any experience with this guy? I'm looking for another monoblue ninja in addition to Ninja of the Deep Hours, and this seems the most exciting one, but also the one that can get rampantly out of control. It has been reasonable in testing so far, because it is really fragile, but getting a hit in twice is damn sweet.
 
Velrun

Velrun

There is a watered down version if you are afraid it will run rampant:



Same ninjutsu cost. Bigger body. But only creates 1/1 flyers instead of duplicating itself.

I would go for Mist-Syndicate Naga as the mono-blue ninja. I mean, who are we kidding? :) People will be excited to try and break it.

A final option is to include an additional Ninja of the Deep Hours and run duplicates. I personally don't mind doing stuff like that.
 
inscho

inscho



How are we feeling about this card these days? Looking for some anchor cards for Selesnya....and I like the way Archangel ties in Convoke and Tokens with Double-Strike creatures like Adorned Pouncer and Solemn Recruit as well as other effects that want to use your creatures for something other than combat like Cryptolith Rite or Battle Screech.

My hunch is it's still a little too powerful for what I'm trying to do....I wish there was something in between this and Angelic Exaltation in terms of power....Appeal // Authority maybe?
 
japahn

japahn

inscho said:


How are we feeling about this card these days? Looking for some anchor cards for Selesnya....and I like the way Archangel ties in Convoke and Tokens with Double-Strike creatures like Adorned Pouncer and Solemn Recruit as well as other effects that want to use your creatures for something other than combat like Cryptolith Rite or Battle Screech.

My hunch is it's still a little too powerful for what I'm trying to do....I wish there was something in between this and Angelic Exaltation in terms of power....Appeal // Authority maybe?
Click to expand...

It doesn't look that strong, as it's not so good when you're behind. I've never run it, though.




On a completely unrelated note, here's a card I found in my binder that I removed for being too good (in my cube, slow and all), and that I've never seen mentioned anywhere else, ever.



Just wanted to be the first and make sure I didn't make it up or anything.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Thoughts on...



I'm trying to find more cross archetype overlap cards for my cube and I've had this one on the sidelines for a few years now. Never got around to testing it in cube for some reason. How does she actually play? Too slow?
 
shamizy

shamizy

Erik Twice said:
Depending on your power level, consider:



Which I've liked a lot as crossarchetype support.
Click to expand...


Oh dude, Retrofitter Foundry is actually insane. When it's part of a deck that can take full advantage it generates so much play. I successfully ran it in a U/R Artifacts shell and another one of my buddies had success with in a kind of B/W tokens deck. It's just a really really good card in general. Like a super Trading Post that actually impacts the board. In a U/x shell at least, it gives you a great mana-sink if you're holding up interaction but don't run into anything relevant that you want to deal with. It gives you a means of rebuilding after a board wipe for minimal investment. And in the late game? Oh man it's a blast to upgrade those artifacts at EOT.

I love the card, but I actually have it on my watch list in case it's too strong in the long run.
 
safra

safra

shamizy said:
Oh dude, Retrofitter Foundry is actually insane. When it's part of a deck that can take full advantage it generates so much play. I successfully ran it in a U/R Artifacts shell and another one of my buddies had success with in a kind of B/W tokens deck. It's just a really really good card in general. Like a super Trading Post that actually impacts the board. In a U/x shell at least, it gives you a great mana-sink if you're holding up interaction but don't run into anything relevant that you want to deal with. It gives you a means of rebuilding after a board wipe for minimal investment. And in the late game? Oh man it's a blast to upgrade those artifacts at EOT.

I love the card, but I actually have it on my watch list in case it's too strong in the long run.
Click to expand...

this endorsement + pia+kiran sounds awesome! adding
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Peter LaCara said:
Anybody have experience with this chonky boy? How much of an issue is 2GGGG?
Click to expand...

It all depends on your mana base. I remember Cloudthresher being played in Standard, with Cruel Ultimatum and Wrath of God in the same list :') When that list got refined though, the Cloudthresher was dropped for being too difficult on the mana.

https://www.channelfireball.com/all...matum-10-years-of-world-championships-part-3/
https://articles.starcitygames.com/premium/reflecting-ruel-impressions-of-kyoto/
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

shamizy said:
Thoughts on...



I'm trying to find more cross archetype overlap cards for my cube and I've had this one on the sidelines for a few years now. Never got around to testing it in cube for some reason. How does she actually play? Too slow?
Click to expand...


I actually think this is too slow. 3 mana for a 1/1 is rough. I would probably play Rhys the Redeemed before this guy as a token payoff that can also go into more decks. Sure, you lose the artifact synergies, but I think the hybrid mana makes up for it.
 
Velrun

Velrun

Onderzeeboot said:
It all depends on your mana base. I remember Cloudthresher being played in Standard, with Cruel Ultimatum and Wrath of God in the same list :') When that list got refined though, the Cloudthresher was dropped for being too difficult on the mana.

https://www.channelfireball.com/all...matum-10-years-of-world-championships-part-3/
https://articles.starcitygames.com/premium/reflecting-ruel-impressions-of-kyoto/
Click to expand...

Can confirm. I played Nationals with that deck.
I didn’t cut it for being difficult on the mana though but simply because better cards got released into Standard. Cloudthresher was only part of the 5-Color Cruel Control during a ‘small’ Standard.

For cube..
100 % depends on your mana base. This is not a card for a 3-colored deck. Could maybe go into a 2-colored with a strong mana base.
 
Dom Harvey

Dom Harvey

Contributor
Cloudthresher is a cool card but relies on the Evoke mode being useful. If the aggro decks in your Cube are fast the self-damage on the ETB is likely a deal-breaker
 
shamizy

shamizy

Nanonox said:
I actually think this is too slow. 3 mana for a 1/1 is rough. I would probably play Rhys the Redeemed before this guy as a token payoff that can also go into more decks. Sure, you lose the artifact synergies, but I think the hybrid mana makes up for it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that was the initial conclusion I had when the card was spoiled. I'm mostly looking for cross-archetype pollination with more ways to generate artifacts in green but there aren't really a whole lot of good options for me. I'll just wait for Green to get some more higher powered artifact buddies to give Verdurous Gearhulk some company.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

I’ve liked playing Verdurous Gearhulk alongside The Great Henge. They give you just enough Daretti/Welder targets to make a RG midrange/GY/counters a subtheme. Add Gilded Goose instead of an elf to help. The great thing is, they are all solid on their own.
Tireless Tracker fits there too.

The 2 big green artifacts also open up UG a little with Urza or Emry shenanigans. Highly recommend them!
 
inscho

inscho

Nanonox said:
I’ve liked playing Verdurous Gearhulk alongside The Great Henge. They give you just enough Daretti/Welder targets to make a RG midrange/GY/counters a subtheme. Add Gilded Goose instead of an elf to help. The great thing is, they are all solid on their own.
Tireless Tracker fits there too.

The 2 big green artifacts also open up UG a little with Urza or Emry shenanigans. Highly recommend them!
Click to expand...


Verdurous Gearhulk checks so many boxes for me, but at the end of the day its efficiency and power has always felt like too much for my cubes.
 
shamizy

shamizy

inscho said:
On the topic of simic artifacts:



With Tireless Tracker alongside Urza, Lord High Artificer and Earthcraft / Cryptolith Rite / Song of Freyalise overlap to create a pretty interesting ramp deck
Click to expand...

I don't know if you've had more success with it, but this card has always been a trap to me. I haven't tried it in cube but I've desperately tried to make it work in EDH after it came out for months and it was always just awkward. The dream is being able to use multiple artifacts to power out threats ahead of the curve, especially with the plethora of haymakers in EDH, but the reality is you often end up with stranded artifacts in your hand that you can't power out. Unless you have a critical mass of creatures that also incidentally make artifacts, you need to include some number of artifacts to get there which only dilutes your deck and lessens the chance of a "hit" where you can curve into a worthy payoff ahead of schedule.

It really depends on your environment and offerings, but most environments housing both Tracker and Urza would probably want to look elsewhere for consistency. When it goes off it's a blast, but it just feels really REALLY bad when you get stuck.
 
dbs

dbs

shamizy said:
I don't know if you've had more success with it, but this card has always been a trap to me...
Click to expand...

I've kept it in for a long time now because it feels like the potential for something fun is so high but it's only ever been a trap for us so far. Usually either doesn't do anything or you would have won without it. Only cool board I saw was together with Sai, Master Thopterist and a bunch of cantrips, Frantic Search's stuff like that. I think he lost his matches but it looked like he was having fun lol.

These days my power level keeps going up and decks go off with something like Mystic Forge and/or Urza instead.
 
inscho

inscho

Well, I think first off your cube needs to be at a power level in which a baseline 3cmc mana rock is serviceable. Which I'm guessing is the easiest trapping for Inspiring Statuary in other's cubes. It's going to be closer to the baseline or maybe a worn powerstone fairly frequently...if that's worth the hurdle for your cube, then it could be worth it. I wouldn't run worn powerstone in my cube because it supplies too much mana too quickly for my needs...so Statuary is a real option as a restrictive mana rock that you can actually build around. Whenever an ancillary card can offer buildaround potential, I get pretty excited.

Once you're good with the baseline, you obviously want to run some density of clue, servo, treasure generating cards:

etc

The non artifact spells are obviously great to cast off improvise and fuel it. Improvise is a fairly awkward mechanic imo and these cards are pretty important to increasing its utility

as well as a fairly healthy artifact section in general.

Equally important is that you include a suite of curve toppers that either scale or can be pitched if you don't reach that critical mass of mana:



or cards that can be binned and used later



I like statuary quite a bit and think it's worth exploring if you temper your expectations and have an accommodating power level
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top