Yeah, you'd have to have an incredibly high density of high-impact artifacts or enchantments for a straight Disenchant to be worth it.
I know you don't really like other people answering instead of the person you are quoting, but firstly, their list on Cube Cobra at least gives an idea (using the right filter), even though I see Urza's Saga is still a one-off in that list.
Oh, right, I forgot about that! Yeah, that definitely makes Urza's Saga an easy include in any deck, maybe even without any other targets.Don’t forget that everyone has access to 2 of the original Moxen in dbs’s cube! So it’s not too risky to play early, as it replaces itself with another mana source.
Has anyone tried Saga in a lower power, slower environment like mine? I probably wouldn't run it anyway because it's so weird and complicated and gimmicky, but I'm curious.
I've found Saga to be exceptionally powerful. I will maindeck it even with 0 fetchable artifacts, since it's a 2-for-1 on card advantage in the first place (2 creatures in exchange for the tempo of one land drop and the future loss of that land). I usually only cut 0.25-0.5 of a land for it, since I consider it to be "a lotus petal followed by two 2-mana bears with suspend 1 and 2 respectively", so I haven't run into significant mana screw as a result of it dying to its own trigger. And ofc, if you *can* fetch something on Chapter III, it turns into a 3-for-1 which is just bonkers good.
That said, of the tutor targets, Shadowspear and Nihil/Aether/Pyrite Spellbombs are situationally game-winning, while the others you mention above are excellent in a wider variety of game states. No combo pieces necessary IMO.
Don’t forget that everyone has access to 2 of the original Moxen in dbs’s cube! So it’s not too risky to play early, as it replaces itself with another mana source.
With Hardened Scales in the cube, would
Be a decent target if you have more Sagas?
I know you play Arcbound Ravager, but not sure if it’s worth the slot.
Weird, because I thought of this as the floor scenario, with the sole assumption that its owner wants to maximize the value of their game pieces.In best case scenario, above is true.
Weird, because I thought of this as the floor scenario, with the sole assumption that its owner wants to maximize the value of their game pieces.
I have cut your comments in two to make sure we can keep it two seperate discussions. The first comment was about you suggesting that you can get 3-for-1 when you have no artifacts in your deck and with your misunderstanding of 'floor' which is certainly not when you get several mini creatures.I typically play Saga as my 3rd or 4th land, then spend the next turn going "removal+Karnstruct" or "threat+Karnstruct", filling holes in my curve. And then after Saga self-destructs, I use my mana to cast the things I would have cast, had I not been making tokens. So even though I agree that Urza's Saga means a temporary loss of tempo, I think it more than makes up for that in value later on, especially in low-curving formats.
That very much depends on the curve of your cube. landofMordor has a very low average mana value, which means that their decks can function on lower mana counts. Losing a land is thus less problematic (or even unproblematic). Also, importantly, it means you can create a token with the Saga and still have some interaction in your hand that you can play with the 1 or 2 mana you have left over after activating Urza's Saga. In such an environment, while the floor is still no karnstructs and a land lost, it is not a realistic floor. I reckon that in slower cubes such as mine, the floor is much worse for two reasons. One, the interaction is more expensive, and sometimes you need to react to the board, meaning you have to cast a spell and don't have the mana to activate Urza's Saga. Two, there are multiple decks that do want to ramp to 6 or 7 (or even 9) mana, and putting yourself down a land is a losing proposition. In such an environment, you would never run the Urza's Saga without any targets in a significant portion of the draft decks.I have cut your comments in two to make sure we can keep it two seperate discussions. The first comment was about you suggesting that you can get 3-for-1 when you have no artifacts in your deck and with your misunderstanding of 'floor' which is certainly not when you get several mini creatures.
Here is for the second half of your comment.
It's not a 'temporary' loss of tempo. It is a long-term loss of tempo. As in every turn you lose 1 mana. What you gain is a short burst of value. You get two small creatures that you can attack or block with. They will cost you 1 mana each turn in upkeep cost. By the end of the game you could have payed anything from 7 to 15 mana on getting those two tokens.