Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

[inscho]

Not trying to argue that it's bad, but I genuinely don't understand why it feels like people regard it as a staple when it only seems to excel in corner cases vs the ETB blinkers.

Definitely not a staple, but I’m not sure we can call any card a staple anymore on this forum. It depends on your design goals and power level. I don’t like skyfisher because it’s the best blink card. I like it because of it offers a unique set of applications and versatility. I don’t run optimized blink in my cube. It’s efficiency overwhelms other strategies I’m trying to support, and it’s just not that interesting to me tbh. Instead of flickerwisp, parallax wave, and resto angel I’m running shepherd of the flock, kor skyfisher and felidar guardian. So yeah, it very well could not line up with your goals

 

[inscho]

Anybody have any experience with:

This is pretty interesting. I didn't know it existed....I like how it incentivizes dredge and discard mechanics in tempo/aggro strategies. It can also be a pseudo Ophidian in a slower deck. A little too clunky for my uses, but it feels like it could find a home in your cube.

 

[Rowan_CB]

Can people relay any experiences with:



For context, it would join Languish and Death Cloud in black's pseudo-wrath suite, so a power-level comparison to those cards would be relevant.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Can people relay any experiences with:



For context, it would join Languish and Death Cloud in black's pseudo-wrath suite, so a power-level comparison to those cards would be relevant.

It's been a long time since I ran Black Sun's or Death Cloud. I think Languish is the strongest, followed by BSZ, followed by Death Cloud. Death Cloud never really came together in my cube.

 

[ravnic]

I think it's slightly weaker than Languish. You can't really save your x toughness guys, mostly, as they will get much weaker as a result. It's still a very nice wrath that can cripple a small aggro horde as well as a board of large fatties. It's probably my favorite black board wipe after Bane of the Living. Also, it combos nicley with Dusk Urchins.

I second Death Cloud being kinda hard to enable.

 

[Rowan_CB]

Anybody have any experience with:

I also completely missed that this card existed. The middle line of text is super interesting and would have a lot of play within most riptide cubes. The first line makes the card better because it guarantees that it connects or trades, but is not very intuitive or elegant. And of course the last line is pure blasphemy.

 

[inscho]

Can people relay any experiences with:



For context, it would join Languish and Death Cloud in black's pseudo-wrath suite, so a power-level comparison to those cards would be relevant.

It's definitely within the same ballpark as languish and death cloud in terms of power. I've never really cared for it, because it's both mana intensive and doesn't allow for many interesting ways of breaking its symmetry (outside of recursive creatures and blink?).....which is a combination I don't particularly care for. The shuffling effect is interesting in a Baron style deck. It's good as a non-fussy lower powered symmetrical board wipe.

I agree that Languish is the strongest of the three. Death Cloud is useful in fewer instances as it is more of a buildaround but has a significantly higher ceiling than BSZ in my experience.

 

[SirFunchalot]

The only context I've ever been genuinely impressed by Kor Skyfisher in was when Arcum's Astrolabe was legal in pauper and you could rebuy it on turn 2. The general lack of 1 mana etb value cards makes the Skyfisher often play much more like a 3 or 4 drop than its mana cost would have you believe and by that stage of the game its stats to mana cost ratio looks a lot less impressive. I don't think its necessarily an awful card but it's much further from the top of the power band of white's cheap creatures in current year.

As far as Ghost of Ramirez DePietro is concerned the card looks like it asks for a lot of work to be more than Hurloon Minotaur and while the payoff can certainly be there in a retail limited esque power level format I don't think it can really break into anything above that.

 

[sigh]

You're almost never casting Skyfisher on curve if you are looking to rebuy an effect, and that's fine for it. You are still only spending the 2 mana on it, and the rest can go to recasting the ETB etc. It doesn't gain mana cost by being cast off curve and is still an above parity P/T on a flier for only 2 mana.
Rebuying a 1 drop to get the 2/3 flier on T2 is relevant sometimes.

It's not the impressive card, necessarily. It's flexibility with all the other things that it can do is (and at 2 mana). Flickerwisp is much less efficient at self-recursion of your effects ( is >>>> than )

 

[shamizy]

Skyfisher is solid. It can enable neat synergies with rebuying effects, especially non-creature permanents ala History of Benalia, and is a solid body for its cost, but it's mostly just a 2 mana 2/3 flyer. I'm not really to excited with it as a T5+ play in most games. However, the flexibility in either being a 2/3 beater or a mid-range bounce card makes it a good inclusion in most cubes around here. It's been in and out of mine over the years, and there are just way too many good options at 2 CMC in white nowadays that fit in with other themes I'm running.

It's kind of nitpicky, but if this was a human I'd probably be running it right now. I just needed that extra bit of synergy with stuff like Champion of the Parish or Thalia's Lieutenant to earn its slot. For now though, the 2 CMC competition is tough:



EDIT: Nevermind derped the format

 

[sigh]

You can. Something funky happened with your formatting.

 

[SirFunchalot]

You're almost never casting Skyfisher on curve if you are looking to rebuy an effect, and that's fine for it. You are still only spending the 2 mana on it, and the rest can go to recasting the ETB etc. It doesn't gain mana cost by being cast off curve and is still an above parity P/T on a flier for only 2 mana.
Rebuying a 1 drop to get the 2/3 flier on T2 is relevant sometimes.

It's not the impressive card, necessarily. It's flexibility with all the other things that it can do is (and at 2 mana). Flickerwisp is much less efficient at self-recursion of your effects ( is >>>> than )

not being good on curve is kind of a big problem for a cheap baneslayer, the stats fall off strongly in relevance the longer the game goes on and the etb is very often a downside as even if you're rebuying an etb shitter for value you're losing board position, which can easily get you blown out if your opponent Ulcerate's your duder. I think Fwisp has a substantially higher floor rate as not only does it lack a downside and have a stronger etb but it also has a better body, considering how they're both mostly relevant from turn 3 onwards I've gotta give it the medal here.

 

[sigh]

I think you overuse the term cheap baneslayer lmao.

I do get your points, but for a lot of cubes the two simply don't compete, and both are very effective and useful additions, that are better at different things for different reasons. For what the Skyfisher is good at and run for, it's a lot better than Flickerwisp.

 

[SirFunchalot]

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I love kor skyfisher, it's one of my favourites. The other thing that hasn't been played up too much is its interactions with cast triggers if you're into that sort of thing, particularly if you recur itself. Had to remove oketras monument because of it though...

There's something very satisfying about playing it, and it's not a question of this or flickerwisp, should be both.

 

[Brad]

I don’t run optimized blink in my cube.

I'm pretty against strong ETBs right now, but I was looking at weaker ETBs plus Prince and Wisp and maybe Wake the Dead as a little blink package. Maybe Felidar, as well. Resto's flash has always felt overwhelming with the great body and blink tacked on.

I once had BSZ as the last card in my deck against an opponent and would have looped it to a draw, but my opponent had 12/12 Kozilek and my deck only had 13 actual lands available due to the fetch mana base.

 

[Velrun]

I once had BSZ as the last card in my deck against an opponent and would have looped it to a draw, but my opponent had 12/12 Kozilek and my deck only had 13 actual lands available due to the fetch mana base.

So close

 

[Nanonox]

I have a few free slots and I am eyeing Chain of Vapor for increased interaction. Does anyone have any experience with it?
What I find attractive:
- Instant
- Any non-land permanent
- Single mana

In addition there are some weird corner case scenarios:
- Bounce your stuff to get copies to trigger Magecraft
- Bounce your stuff to get lands into the GY to trigger cards like Titania, Protector of Argoth

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I have a few free slots and I am eyeing Chain of Vapor for increased interaction. Does anyone have any experience with it?
What I find attractive:
- Instant
- Any non-land permanent
- Single mana

In addition there are some weird corner case scenarios:
- Bounce your stuff to get copies to trigger Magecraft
- Bounce your stuff to get lands into the GY to trigger cards like Titania, Protector of Argoth

It seems like it could be interesting in your multiplayer environment, but I don't know if it will be actually good.

 

[inscho]

I have a few free slots and I am eyeing Chain of Vapor for increased interaction. Does anyone have any experience with it?
What I find attractive:
- Instant
- Any non-land permanent
- Single mana

In addition there are some weird corner case scenarios:
- Bounce your stuff to get copies to trigger Magecraft
- Bounce your stuff to get lands into the GY to trigger cards like Titania, Protector of Argoth

Chain is at its best when you are doing super cheaty things with baubles and Sai, Master Thopterist and the like...I think dbs runs it. Directed at your opponent is pretty situational in a typical cube context, and I can only assume that quality increases in a multiplayer setting rather than decreases. The faster your format, the better it is....but a fast multiplayer setting? Hard to say. How excited are you for the chaos factor of multiple copies whizzing around?

This alternative is very undervalued in my opinion:



It's not one mana, doesn't give you multiple magecraft triggers, but has some similar utility and play lines and is higher powered than it may seem.

 

[SirFunchalot]

Single target card disadvantage interaction is rarely a good place to be in a lot of formats but its disadvantaged even more in multiplayer unless the metagame is extremely fast and players are interested in removing dedicated lockpieces to enable win-the-game combos like they are in CEDH. I don't expect this effect to be particularly desirable in the context of your format which looks to me as though it's on the slower end and more about grinding value

 

[japahn]

This alternative is very undervalued in my opinion:



It's not one mana, doesn't give you multiple magecraft triggers, but has some similar utility and play lines and is higher powered than it may seem.

I replaced Withdraw with Rushing River because Withdraw was often a huge blowout... Rushing River is really nice, bouncing nonland, noncreature permanents is a big deal for blue in my cube, since it responds things that the blue player didn't have a chance to counter, but not in a way that invalidates them. The choice of sacrificing or not a land is often interesting too, since it's a blow to tempo for both players. Very happy with the swap so far.

 

[Erik Twice]

So, what'st the appeal of Sneak Attack in synergy-based cubes?



What can I do with it that isn't cheating Emrakul into play?

 

[Zoss]

Grixis Ninjas? Jeskai Blink? Mardu Aristocrats? These all come to mind, but I don't have anything particular in mind beyond "that sounds plausible." And the first is a bit of a stretch. Really, so long as you don't mind the critter dying, it can be decent, especially if you almost want it in the GY anyway. It also can be used to create surprise blockers, and fits in pretty well with Army-in-a-can creatures. I like it a lot, but you have to be very careful to not break things with it, to the point where I don't include it due to mental strain when contemplating the rest of my cube. Fewer things for me to break = happier cube designer.

 

[inscho]

So, what'st the appeal of Sneak Attack in synergy-based cubes?



What can I do with it that isn't cheating Emrakul into play?

I like it as support for welder decks. It slots well into gruul that has ramping components to it....I like it with see the unwritten, pattern of rebirth, and eldritch evolution

In boros you can do more “reveillark and friends” tricks and pairs well with blink

Pairs well with Reanimator effects in rakdos

The wheel effects are good to reload your hand

All of the new cycling creatures makes sneak more easily viable

Mimic Vat is good support with it, obviously Feldon of the Third Path which intersects with the welders