General Speculation-Thread

[ravnic]

I for one love to speculate about upcoming MtG-sets, but I haven't found the right place in these forums fo it, so ... here it is! Obviously, we're speculating in the context of cube design!

M19 was a really cool core set. Now Ravnica 3 is about to come. I have to admit that I am still quite stoked for it. I feel like I shouldn't be that exited for the third repeat, but I have an unhealthy love for the City of Guilds.

For cube, the thing I really want the most out of Ravnica 3 is hyvrids. Ravnica seems to be the only plane where we can expect actual hybrid cards. I count hybrids as a seperate category, because they are almost the opposite of real gold cards when it comes to drafting and deckbuilding. I'm happy, I found one hybrid I really like for each guild, but I would not mind adding another cycle. For this to happen I want at least one hit for , , , and .

I'm also hoping for sweet mechanics. Can we have one Ravnica block with 10 good keywords? Please let dimir have something nice this time. I'm still mad for cipher
I wouldn't mind a comeback of some abilities as well. Scavenge, Battalion, Evolve, Convoke, Bloodrush and the infamous Dredge were a lot of fun in many cube games for us already, and I see some unused potential in Replicate and Haunt.

 

[CaptnIrony]

Please let dimir have something nice this time.

When ~ deals combat damage to a player, that player mills X where X is ~'s Toughness.

 

[ravnic]

I think they would probably just make a keyword for this ability:



It would fit the flavor, but I'd prefer something with more control applications. That mills or somehow manipulates libraries.

I know, we won't get fateseal, and that's probably good that way

 

[Velrun]

I am pretty sure (but not 100 %) that they will not do comebacks of previous Guild mechanics in the second return (and not third as you said ) Ravnica block. I believe that is what they said during the announcement interview.

Personally I just hope they can keep it interesting with three sets in a row on the same plane. This is what we were use to a long time ago but most of us has gotten use to the new fast-pace speed where a new plane is showing up every half a year.

Also please do not let Bolas die to the hands of the Gatewatch (Previously known as The Jacestus League, pre-Oath of the Gatewatch). Bolas is way too cool and important compared to those heroes. Although I kind of expect them to win because if they could go to Amonkhet absolutely unprepared and only suffer small defeats (no fatality) then I bet a bunch of them could really hurt Bolas if they team up and plan an attack.

In cube regards I think I will love these three sets. Of course I expect there to be 10 Shock Lands which means I will probably have to consider getting 1 or 2 of them in place of Masterpiece Expeditions. I do like it when they make chase rares I do not need what so ever. Makes the whole experience cheaper I also expect a complete update to the entire multicolor section in most people’s cubes on this site!

I expect they will make an abundance of legendary leaders as well this time. Last time each Guild had 2! That would go quite well with Dominaria’s legendary instant/sorceries for Standard and for Brawl. Also works well with historic.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Yeah, I think you've got a good chance of hybrid, especially as they have to squeeze five guilds into one set, can't see how they'd Mands without (unless we get a lot of mono colours with of colour activations).

 

[ravnic]

Oops, yeah I meant second return obviously

I assume the three hybrids per guild are a given, they brought this system back last time and I see no reason to cut this off. Especially since Ravnica was the place, that introduced hybrid mana. Question is just, if they are cubeable. I wont add Shadow of Doubt or Golgari Longlegs to fill the gaps

 

[shamizy]

Not gonna get them anytime soon since RTR = Shocks, but I just want my cycle of Enemy Battlelands. Sometime in the next 2-3 years would be great, but I probably won't get them till like 2025.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Not gonna get them anytime soon since RTR = Shocks, but I just want my cycle of Enemy Battlelands. Sometime in the next 2-3 years would be great, but I probably won't get them till like 2025.

Battlelands? Like Battlebond?
Also: Sure WotC printing them is obv better, but I am the "Completing 5 card land cycles fairy"...

 

[Velrun]

Battlelands? Like Battlebond?
Also: Sure WotC printing them is obv better, but I am the "Completing 5 card land cycles fairy"...

They are called Battlelands because Wizards of the Coast introduced the lands as ‘Battlelands’ when they first spoiled the lands but the name is misleading. They were named Battlelands because they came out in Battle for Zendikar. Not because they were particularly good at battling anything.

Prairie Stream
Sunken Hollow
Smoldering Marsh
Cinder Glade
Canopy Vista

These were released on October 2nd 2015.

 

[Tzenmoroth]

They are called Battlelands because Wizards of the Coast introduced the lands as ‘Battlelands’ when they first spoiled the lands but the name is misleading. They were named Battlelands because they came out in Battle for Zendikar. Not because they were particularly good at battling anything.

Prairie Stream
Sunken Hollow
Smoldering Marsh
Cinder Glade
Canopy Vista

These were released on October 2nd 2015.

Those are the tango lands though.

 

[Velrun]

Those are the tango lands though.

That’s one of the few community names for the lands yes

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Those are the tango lands though.

I like that nickname, it takes two to tango after all.

 

[shamizy]

Nah, I hate referring to them as Tangolands. It was a terrible nickname from the get go. I get the two to tango thing, but it just didn't stick for me. Seemed more like people trying to get the name to catch on, but stop trying to make fetch happen; it's never going to happen. Also, Tangolands just don't roll off the tongue like Shocklands or Fastlands or Manlands.

Hard pass on Tangolands, they'll be Battlelands to me and everyone I played against locally when they were legal. WOTC please give me my 2nd cycle.

 

[ravnic]

Make love, not.war
Say Tango, not battle

 

[CaptnIrony]

I think they would probably just make a keyword for this ability:



It would fit the flavor, but I'd prefer something with more control applications. That mills or somehow manipulates libraries.

I know, we won't get fateseal, and that's probably good that way

Not a chance. If you deal X to an opponent and Mill them X, you'll kill them with damage before they mill out. Maybe three times if lifegain is strong, but I even doubt that. They won't provide two ways of killing your opponent at once that don't synergise.

Maybe Instead of damage you mill? But then all sorts of problems, like with infect.

Nah, I hate referring to them as Tangolands. It was a terrible nickname from the get go. I get the two to tango thing, but it just didn't stick for me. Seemed more like people trying to get the name to catch on, but stop trying to make fetch happen; it's never going to happen. Also, Tangolands just don't roll off the tongue like Shocklands or Fastlands or Manlands.

Hard pass on Tangolands, they'll be Battlelands to me and everyone I played against locally when they were legal. WOTC please give me my 2nd cycle.

[Serious tag] It's the fact that "Tango" has two syllables. Adding lands makes it three, and humans like two Syllable words where the emphasis is on the first:
Shockland
Fastland
Manland
Scryland
Pirate
Dino
Robot
Teenage
Mutant
NinjaTurtles

 

[Onderzeeboot]

[Serious tag] It's the fact that "Tango" has two syllables. Adding lands makes it three, and humans like two Syllable words where the emphasis is on the first:

That's a nice little theory, but that doesn't explain their preference for "battlelands", which also has three syllables...

 

[Velrun]

I like that nickname, it takes two to tango after all.

That is a cute little joke running around since 2015. However it doesn’t explain why the lands shouldn’t be called football(Soccer) lands, duel lands, monogamy sex lands or a thousand other things like it takes two to.

Fencing Lands?

I believe “It Takes Two to Tango” stuck in people’s head was because an old movie got famous with that name.

 

[Velrun]

I think I’ll call them Fencing Lands from now on just to be in the way

No I’ll stick with Tango. Just wanted to answer Chris’s question.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I believe “It Takes Two to Tango” stuck in people’s head was because an old movie got famous with that name.

According to Wikipedia:

The phrase originated in a song, Takes Two to Tango, which was written and composed in 1952 by Al Hoffman and Dick Manning. The lyrics and melody were popularized by singer Pearl Bailey's 1952 recording.

The phrase was reported widely in the international media when Ronald Reagan quipped about Russian-American relations during a 1982 presidential news conference.[3] Reagan stated: "For ten years détente was based on words by them [the Russians] and not any words to back them up. And we need some action that they — it takes two to tango — that they want to tango also." Since that time, the tango metaphor has appeared regularly in the headline of the international press. The phrase has gained currency as a proverb in loan translation in other languages.

This expression has become a familiar proverbial expression; and it has also found its way into American legal writing, as in:

"It takes at least two to tango for conspiracy purposes." -- US v. Villasanor, 894 F.2d 1422 (5th Cir. 1990).
"This is a situation where it takes more than two to tango," -- Gant v. Aliquippa Borough, 612 F.Supp. 1139 (W.D. Penn. 1985).
More generally in instances involving a dubious transaction, like a bribe, conventional wisdom in America and in the United Kingdom presumes that if one is guilty, both are.

I love this actually Such a cool fact, and a great song that I didn't know!

 

[sigh]

Battlelands might be three syllables, but the pronunciation emphasis is the key. "BA-ttle-Lands", and when you are speaking it fast, it can come out like Battle-ands, with the L flowing from battle into lands. That makes it pseudo-two-syllable. Can't do that with "tan-GO-Lands"

I actually like mill = to toughness, though I have no idea how likely it is to actually happen. That emphasizes both Mill, which Dimir and UB like, and defensiveness, which Dimir/UB like

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Battlelands might be three syllables, but the pronunciation emphasis is the key. "BA-ttle-Lands", and when you are speaking it fast, it can come out like Battle-ands, with the L flowing from battle into lands. That makes it pseudo-two-syllable. Can't do that with "tan-GO-Lands"

I actually like mill = to toughness, though I have no idea how likely it is to actually happen. That emphasizes both Mill, which Dimir and UB like, and defensiveness, which Dimir/UB like

Wait... How do you pronounce tango? Are you stressing the second syllable? Because I'm pretty sure it's TAN-go.

/me looks it up... Yep.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tango

For me the double l in battlelands makes it harder to pronounce. If I try to make it two syllables, it sounds like BAT-lands, which doesn't make it any easier for people to know which cycle I'm referring to. TAN-go-lands though, that I can do just fine, tango is easier for me to pronounce than battle anyway, and the o at the end of tango flows into the l of lands, much like it does in the word pangolin.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pangolin

See, tangolands is easy! To each their own though

 

[ravnic]

I actually like mill = to toughness, though I have no idea how likely it is to actually happen. That emphasizes both Mill, which Dimir and UB like, and defensiveness, which Dimir/UB like

Yeah seems to be actually more plausible, because that way you would kill with mill before damage.

I would still prefer an ability, that works without attacking. In Ravnica 1 Dimir often won games with stalling and using cards like Vedalken Entrancer. I wanna be mean and do this again.

 

[sigh]

even so, there are three mouth shapes, and in battle there should be about two (because your mouth just made the previous L)

https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/

Type "battleland" and "tangoland" into there, and the computer voice tries so hard to make tangoland sound nice it doesn't even say "lAnd", it de-emphasizes the whole syllable to try to flow (the "lend" or "lund" kinda sound). Same thing it does for, say, "Netherlands". Battleland, however, is behaving exactly as I've stated above. The nice computer lady is de-emphasizing the second "l" such that it sound more like the second syllable is "and"

There isn't anything necessarily wrong with the "lend" sort of pronunciation, but we are referring to a specific class of cards here (Lands), so it's critical to actually get the land sound as "lAnd" because we are talking about that card type.

All this is besides the fact that battleland is also a more resonant name. Don't have to ask anyone for the backstory on it lol. It's just "oh yeah those lands from battle for zendikar"

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Disclaimer: I'm not discussing out of spite or because I want to prove you wrong, I actually enjoy these kinds of debates in general, and language interests me, so I like this one in particular. If you don't feel like discussing this any further, just say so

All this is besides the fact that battleland is also a more resonant name. Don't have to ask anyone for the backstory on it lol. It's just "oh yeah those lands from battle for zendikar"

As for the resonance of the name...

Battlelands? Like Battlebond?

Shocklands, fetchlands, checklands, scrylands, bouncelands, these names are eternal because they make sense when you look at the card (ok, you do need to know Shock, but that card is reprinted every now and then). The connection to the set name in battlelands is tenuous at best. There are now multiple sets with "battle" in the name (and a land cycle in the set), as time goes on there will be more and more players that haven't played during Battle of Zendikar, and thus will not get the name, and if the tangolands ever get reprinted a lot of people will associate the lands with the new set which makes the nickname even more confusing.

https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/

Type "battleland" and "tangoland" into there, and the computer voice tries so hard to make tangoland sound nice it doesn't even say "lAnd", it de-emphasizes the whole syllable to try to flow (the "lend" or "lund" kinda sound). Same thing it does for, say, "Netherlands". Battleland, however, is behaving exactly as I've stated above. The nice computer lady is de-emphasizing the second "l" such that it sound more like the second syllable is "and"

There isn't anything necessarily wrong with the "lend" sort of pronunciation, but we are referring to a specific class of cards here (Lands), so it's critical to actually get the land sound as "lAnd" because we are talking about that card type.

When I enter "battleland", it sounds like "BED-de-lund". Compared to the pronunciation of "battle land", there's a marked deemphasizing of the last syllable in "battleland", and there's a clear difference in how the word "land" is pronounced in both cases. In all honesty, I expect people to pronounce both options like there's a space between the two words, and when I enter "I play the battle land. I play the tango land.", both options sound honestly fine.

In which case I'm back to tangoland being slightly easier for me to pronounce, and I still think tangoland is a better tie to the card mechanics, since "it takes two to tango" is a well known phrase (at least in the U.S.).

 

[ravnic]

Let's try to get this thread ontopic again

What kind of keyword do you expect for the Rakdos? I liked the handsize matters thing with hellbent, but the mechanic wasn't popular. They brought "almost-hellbent" back for Shadows and Amonkhet, so maybe they would come up with something in this vein? Unleash produced good cards but was a super boring mechanic imo.