Sets (STX) Strixhaven Testing/Includes Thread

Zoss

Zoss

I think there's a bit of an issue of "efficiency" versus "efficacy" at play here. Yes, the Lessons are not, as a rule, efficient (that is, they are over costed for what you get). However, I'm a lot happier top decking a Professor of Symbology than a Thalia's Lieutenant in the late game because at that point I don't care as much about efficiency as I do about the ability to do anything at all.

No matter how high the power level of the cube, you still flood out sometimes, and Learn can help with that. Now, does that make it worth the space? Maybe, maybe not, but to say that including them doesn't make any sense ignores the fact that their upsides are entirely independent of their efficiency, so long as they're remotely playable. A backhoe is preferable to a shovel for digging quickly, but so long as you have a tool of some sort you're going to get the job done.


Edit: this is to say, yeah, individual learn/lesson cards are not great, but when you take the effects of a Learner and the Lesson together, you get a lot more done than most individual cards would.

Edit 2: I should REALLY learn to read things through for spelling when posting on mobile first thing in the morning.
 
Dom Harvey

Dom Harvey

Contributor
If I include Learn cards it will be with a separate pool of Lessons (Utility Lesson Draft?! or just a box), just as I'm only considering snow cards if I get to add snow lands and don't have to draft them
 
Heymaker

Heymaker

Dom Harvey said:
If I include Learn cards it will be with a separate pool of Lessons (Utility Lesson Draft?! or just a box), just as I'm only considering snow cards if I get to add snow lands and don't have to draft them
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Booster Tutor but for Lessons! Or even, "When you draft a card with Learn, also draft a card from the Lesson pack".

There's probably a lot of cool ways to do custom Learn/Lesson draft mechanics that work for people who are bearish on including those directly into their cube. Really curious what people come up with!
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Velrun said:
Onde I appreciate you testing the Learn Lesson cards <3
Please report back with results when you have more information
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Preliminary results:
  • My bots don't like drafting lessons
  • The learn/lesson mechanic matched or exceeded my expectations in the two decks I drafted so far
  • My custom {R/G} Summoning lesson plays super well but is way too good for a lesson
  • I won a game by exiling Eternal Dragon with Introduction to Annihilation (the 5 mana sorcery lesson that exiles a creature and lets villain draw a card)
So far the two decks I've drafted have both been Temur, and despite passing multiple powerful cards to pick up learn and lesson cards so I could test them out, my deck did not feel weak against the opposition (though tbf, the AI in Forge is on the weak side, but it beats testing against yourself by miles :D).
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
More testing done. I've now played learn/lesson in every color. I really like the mechanic! Some additional notes.
  • Pop Quiz is way better than I anticipated. If you draft correctly, this becomes an instant speed Divination that sort of tutors for one of its two cards.
  • Red has the weakest learn spells, as expected, but the unlikely second best learn spell after Igneous Inspiration in that color so far has been Academic Dispute.
  • The rare learn spells have all been excellent, with the exception of Retriever Phoenix, though I have yet to give that one an honest chance.
  • Other standout learn spells so far have been Divide by Zero, Professor of Symbology, and Study Break.
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

Onderzeeboot said:
  • The rare learn spells have all been excellent, with the exception of Retriever Phoenix, though I have yet to give that one an honest chance.
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Retriever Phoenix strikes me as weak in singleton formats. To fully utilize the card, a player needs a fair number of other learn cards in the deck, which isn't necessarily achievable in a Cube draft. Otherwise, the floor of a 2/2 Flying Haste for 4 that draws a card doesn't seem particularly strong in environments with 2021 quality creatures.

I think Retriever Phoenix is capable of being a good card in Standard (and possibly Historic), where a bunch of learn cards can be crammed into the same deck and Retriever Phoenix can act like an Arclight Phoenix variant. However, that play pattern does not translate to Cube without singleton breaks.
 
ravnic

ravnic

I'm also testing a second card!

c2f18828-ade7-4b99-97b2-e34bc2fdb68c.jpg



Should be good with my sac/token themes in these colors, but no trample/evasion makes him fair I anticipate. I also just went up to 5 hybrids per guild, so now it will join Gleancrawler, Golgari Signet, Worm Harvest and Life//Death.
 
Suicufnoc

Suicufnoc

ravnic said:
It's what I call a heavy hybrid, and since I am actively supporting mono color decks, I play a few of these, fully aware that they only go in three different decks ( A, B or AB). If they are powerful enough (among your better cards at least), they act like a mild payoff for two different mono decks.
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Yup, kitchen finks may see play in a GR deck, but that card isn't. No pseudo-colorless here :( ( :) ? )
 
japahn

japahn

Mini cantripping Citadel Siege sounds decent.

1.5 drafts so far, learn is really strong - feels about as good as "draw a card" in limited. In cube, the rates of the lessons might not give you that feeling, and I'm skeptical about high power levels, but it is a theme you can definitely add to a lower powered cube. I don't think I'd have much fun with full wishboard like Jason is doing though, since part of the blast is that you need to balance drafting your wishboard and your main deck, so the drafting feels deeper, and playing the cards you prioritized is more rewarding.
 
Seeker

Seeker

It's not just Citadel Siege, it untaps the creature too - real murder against decks trying to get in with bears.
 
japahn

japahn

So what have people tested and liked so far? I'm really, really down on this set for cube. I haven't found almost any cards I'm interested in. This is the exhaustive list, and that's forcing quite a bit:


(and other Campuses)

The only interesting thing about Strixhaven to me has been learn and lessons, and I haven't found an elegant way to integrate them into the cube.
 
Brad

Brad

Is that the whole campus set, or specifically you find Quandrix appealing? Curious if it's the latter.

I don't know what I like and my cube is a fucking mess right now.
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

japahn said:
So what have people tested and liked so far? I'm really, really down on this set for cube. I haven't found almost any cards I'm interested in.
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Quandrix Apprentice has been fantastic so far (although that isn't really a secret), Flunk has been way better than I was expecting, and the Command cycle has been really fun as well.

Witherbloom Apprentice has been growing on me a lot as I have been playing the set in Retail limited. It acts as a surprisingly consistent source of damage and life gain. I think it could easily represent 5 non-combat damage in a cube game depending on the environment, and I might actually be testing it now.

Since you have some cards that care about gaining life, Witherbloom Pledgemage might be an interesting option for your cube. The body is really relevant in games closer to the retail limited power level, and the life gain is useful in stabilizing against aggressive strategies. I could see it fitting right in to the Elegant Cube!

(Also you might like it too @Brad!)
 
Brad

Brad

Sweet that we can @ now!

I have the Apprentice. Seems great at 2/2 with a ping that's relevant against both fast and slow decks.

The Pledgemage is in mind if I decide to dip on power level. Still feeling things out and looking at different angles after the ~15 month hiatus (we were planning to play right when COVID got serious). Wish Pledgemage had the Apprentice effect, too.
 
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