The Black Cube
- Thread starter Brad
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List needs to be like 450-480. Not totally sure, but it's at 544 right now. Making some cuts.
I added a few one drops to nonblack and cut all the duplicate black one drops to free a little space while still being dense on one drops. Now only lands are duplicate, but I don't imagine that will change. Fetch-shock is so good.
Stromkirk Condemned and anything that was there in large part due to saying "Vampire" on the type line got pulled. Falkenrath Gorger still wants some friends, but it's a really solid Lion at worst. 24 Vampires remain, mostly due to how WotC designed Vampires.
Similarly, I cut anything that gave a shit about the word "Warrior." I still think it's a good theme for someone, as all the cards are fine, but I'm trying to fit in too many other synergies right now. Could easily make a return if another set cares about Warriors. Same for Vampires.
Went ahead and cut most cards that were generically good. Rakdos Firewheeler, for example. It's got a nice ETB and some solid stats, but it doesn't really fit anywhere or interact with anything significant to the format.
Help me make cuts. Stop making me add things.
That's a crying emoji. I went over the creatures once and didn't get to noncreatures tonight. White 4s were a particular issue.
I added a few one drops to nonblack and cut all the duplicate black one drops to free a little space while still being dense on one drops. Now only lands are duplicate, but I don't imagine that will change. Fetch-shock is so good.
Stromkirk Condemned and anything that was there in large part due to saying "Vampire" on the type line got pulled. Falkenrath Gorger still wants some friends, but it's a really solid Lion at worst. 24 Vampires remain, mostly due to how WotC designed Vampires.
Similarly, I cut anything that gave a shit about the word "Warrior." I still think it's a good theme for someone, as all the cards are fine, but I'm trying to fit in too many other synergies right now. Could easily make a return if another set cares about Warriors. Same for Vampires.
Went ahead and cut most cards that were generically good. Rakdos Firewheeler, for example. It's got a nice ETB and some solid stats, but it doesn't really fit anywhere or interact with anything significant to the format.
Help me make cuts. Stop making me add things.
That's a crying emoji. I went over the creatures once and didn't get to noncreatures tonight. White 4s were a particular issue.
Help me make cuts. Stop making me add things.
Some Cuts:
I've run and cut this card before. I think a graveyard nuke on a flier might be a little strong in a format with a heavy graveyard element.
This is one of the worst "Blink on a Stick" creatures. I think if you're cutting White 4s, this is one to consider. If you really need another blink on a stick for white, swap this with Whispweaver Angel instead. That card blinks and can actually be a reasonable finisher in it's own right.
While I like this card, "Golem Tribal" isn't really a thing in your cube and could be a confusing signal to drafters. While this card is Fine, I don' t think you need it, especially if you're looking to free up White four slots.
This card is arguably worse than Master Splicer, although it does have a few more synergies which could maybe make it desirable. A 4/3 or a 2/1 with two 1/1s just doesn't seem all that good without abundant ways to abuse it.
Having played this card with an Enchantment, Artifact, and Graveyard deck in the same Cube before, I can say from experience that this card is not good very often. Your cube doesn't really have the level of artifact or enchantment support for this card to do much of anything, so I see it as an easy cut.
I've played this card a ton on Arena in Brawl (a format where opponents casting things from zones other than their hand comes up quite often), and it was trash. As it turns out, discarding cards for unblockability on a 2/1 is pretty bad. I don't think this helps support ninjas particularly well, because you can't get the card draw after the fact, and it's not in a great color for madness. This card just isn't good.
You've got more than enough 1-drops for true aggro decks to function, and this card is one of the worst and the least fun. I'd cut this.
It's not uncommon for this card to be a 2/5 or worse. While I think this card is cool in extremely low power environments, yours seems a little too high for this card to be desirable, even with the enters the battlefield ability. Satyr Wayfinder this is not!
I found this card to be thuroughly annoying in retail limited. It either immediately died to removal or just won the game. The lifelink makes it impossible to race against and the boast ability means it can tighten the grip of a player who is ahead, especially if they are in a go-wide strategy.
I'm not sure this kills enough things consistently enough to be worth a slot. While this card has a reasonably high ceiling, I think it's floor and average case are low enough where it would be worth cutting if you needed a slot.
This just seems like the worst cantrip ever. Would you cube with Slip through Space? If not, I would cut this.
This card is either oppressive or terrible; it's never "just ok." I'd highly recommend removing it from the cube.
This card just seems so much better than all of your other red cards. It doesn't really demand synergy and yet can provide huge amounts of value. While I don't think this card is broken in your Cube, I think it's going to lead to a lot of feel-bads unless you raise the power level of the environment.
I don't think a 5/5 Swampwalk with a twisted Staff of the Death Magus ability is really worth the investment of playing a third color for. I can totally see keeping this card for "flavor" purposes in a Black Cube, but I have a feeling it might warm sideboards more often than is entirely desirable for a card.
This card is either not getting cast or just says "7 Mana: Win the Game." I don't believe it has desirable play patterns in 1v1 Magic.
Blink effects that aren't attached to permanents or cost more than one mana to use are often mediocre. When you lose the element of surprise with a blink like this, it becomes a terrible rate to reset an ETB because the opponent will wait to use their removal until you're tapped out. While this card has a tiny bit of value as wrath protection, I think it is an easy cut you won't miss. I think this card was even bad when Grillo played it, and it only earned it's spot by being a blink enabler that could be recurred by Auriok Salvagers. You don't really have the support for this, I would suggest you cut it.
Having played 3-mana rocks before, I can definitively say they're not impressive. Even though your format is a little bit slower than many, it's still lean enough where taking turn 3 off to play a mana rock can be a big setback, and there aren't that many cards that make this mana acceleration more meaningful than just curving out. I think a small number of two-mv rocks like the black Signets or Charcoal Diamond would not cause an imbalance in this format if you really want mana rocks, but as it stands, I would cut the three-mv rocks.
I would even consider cutting Bontu's Monument, but that card can actually generate more than one mana per turn if you cast multiple creatures, so it's probably fine. It also is just very on theme for a black cube.
Sacrificing a Creature and tapping a land is not usually worth one life, even if you have cards that care about things dying. This looks terrible next to Phyrexian Tower.
That's 21 cuts if you take them all out, 20 if you replace Felidar Guardian, and 19 if you leave two of the White 4 drops. This brings your cube size down to 456-458, again depending on what you cut. I hope this helps!
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I don't have time to reply to each analysis right now, but I'll say: mostly agree. A lot of those were the same ones I had my eye on, so I'll adjust accordingly in a bit. Thank you.
EDIT: 15 cuts from those. I decided to kill the whole Golem package to get the tokens out of my pile, as that's a goal of mine.
EDIT: 15 cuts from those. I decided to kill the whole Golem package to get the tokens out of my pile, as that's a goal of mine.
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A minimalist theme, I can get behind that.
In cubes that are limiting their power level, I'd rather see synergy pieces be at the top of the power band than other cards. So yes, some of these are pushed, but they still seem reasonable to me for your cube. I'm no expert though!
Sedgemoor Witch: definitely a strong creature, but still vulnerable. Good in all sorts of decks, from fast to slow. You have a good number of enablers, but not at a density that this would be problematic.
Dragonsguard Elite: Also very powerful, but, you have to work for it a little. BG is usually a little lighter on the enablers too and tend to have more creature centric decks. This gives you a few turns before it gets completely out of hand which I like.
Leonin Lightscribe: This guy is a beating. I've lost to it a bunch in Strixhaven limited and it cements fast starts into wins. Less sure on this one, because it does take over a game.
Reyhan is also top of the power band, but it enables some sweet synergies. Plus, I like having the most powerful cards of a format as signposts when possible as it entices players into the deck. You have a good number of ways to exile to nullify the dies effect and they need a creature on their side. It's an interesting puzzle to solve for the opponent.
I like the artifact package btw, all solid cards that become better the more you get. I haven't been impressed by Sai though, as I generally find myself lacking artifacts to trigger it. Maybe I was expecting too much from him and set myself up for disapointment.
Some cards that stand out as cuts to me:
Order of the Stars: Low impact and annoying.
Restoration Specialist: Not that many worthwhile enchantments and artifacts to return that actually bin themselves.
General Kudro of Drannith: The only piece of the humans package. I like the GY hate, but feels like a false signal.
Benevolent Blessing: An aura that invalidates most of the cube. Not a fan.
Reject: I think this would play better as a Syncopate or something. It's conditional in 2 ways which limit's its potential.
Ruthless Knave: 3 mana on that activated ability is really rough. I can't see many times you would want to use it.
Armaments Corps: Mediocre body and ability for a 5 mana 3 color card.
Expedition Map: Your lands are almost all fixing, so this seems unnecessary unless you run an ULD.
Order of the Stars: Low impact and annoying.
Restoration Specialist: Not that many worthwhile enchantments and artifacts to return that actually bin themselves.
General Kudro of Drannith: The only piece of the humans package. I like the GY hate, but feels like a false signal.
Benevolent Blessing: An aura that invalidates most of the cube. Not a fan.
Reject: I think this would play better as a Syncopate or something. It's conditional in 2 ways which limit's its potential.
Ruthless Knave: 3 mana on that activated ability is really rough. I can't see many times you would want to use it.
Armaments Corps: Mediocre body and ability for a 5 mana 3 color card.
Expedition Map: Your lands are almost all fixing, so this seems unnecessary unless you run an ULD.
True. Probably too cute.
Need to look into enchantments tonight. Lot of flak for some additions because the theme isn't in there lol.
58 humans, 26 in BW. Seems fine to me
Really cool card, but it could totally be too much.
Mana Leak works so damn often, I think this will be fine.
Yeah, he's kind of weird. Sac/artifacts, but you're probably right that it's too costly to make great use of.
True. The flexible 6/6 for 5 was better when I was slower. I don't look at the 3c cards as often because it's less tricky to solve the sections. Way fewer cards in and way fewer cards to consider. Several better options for the slot.
Yeah... This is kind of a leftover from when Nykthos was a stronger pick and you'd be interested in fetching it. It's not as strong now that the top end has been reduced along with the hybrid count.
I'll make adjustments based on this and some other thoughts I've had today.
Alright. Enchantments actually kind of suck. I'll leave Zur because he's really cool and doesn't ask for much, but I'm not going to hit the kind of enchantment numbers needed for a full theme. Aphemia could stay, as a decent 2 mana threat. Anything else is almost sure to go. About to go to the list.
Are you actively looking for the "only creatures or PWs" restriction? Because I can also vouch for syncopate, which can hit any type of spell.
Has this cube seen any 8-player drafting? Or just two-player?
I basically just wanted the 2 MV counterspell, as this exile effect is largely priced at 1UU. I could add Syncopate, as well. I think a lot of cubes are a little short on counterspells and I'd like to run a few more.
Yeah. It's been drafted by 2-8 I think. It just depends who we're able to get. I used to be in situations where I'd just have one friend around kind of often, so it needed to be grid-able. We'll see what post-COVID holds. It's been out of use for like 15 months. Everyone in the main playgroup will be vaccinated in a few weeks here, hence to push to tune it up.
Decided to cut Incendiary Flow and get up to date wording on all my burn spells for my beginners' sake.
Made some swaps based on wordiness, such as Tragic Arrogance-->Cleansing Nova.
EDIT: Cut all the cards I tagged as Wordy. Fuck it.
Re-Added Lord Windgrace because Jund cards were proving to be a problem. He makes Cat Warrior tokens, which adds to the token pile, but it will do so in the form of 12+ Thopter/Cat Warrior double sided tokens that will occasionally assist his ultimate if the opponent doesn't scoop. Double sided tokens can be kind of clunky to find the right one, but all of the Thopters and Cat Warriors will be the same and the Cats will be a rare occurrence, so it feels fine.
Some of the artifacts feel a little janky as the list has gotten higher powered, but I think I'll need to see them drafted and played to decide if being an artifact is worth a little power less to support the theme.
I love devotion, but I'm not sure if Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Nyx Lotus have anything worth ramping to anymore. Will it be worth pursuing those cards for the sake of having a bunch of mana?
Made some swaps based on wordiness, such as Tragic Arrogance-->Cleansing Nova.
EDIT: Cut all the cards I tagged as Wordy. Fuck it.
Re-Added Lord Windgrace because Jund cards were proving to be a problem. He makes Cat Warrior tokens, which adds to the token pile, but it will do so in the form of 12+ Thopter/Cat Warrior double sided tokens that will occasionally assist his ultimate if the opponent doesn't scoop. Double sided tokens can be kind of clunky to find the right one, but all of the Thopters and Cat Warriors will be the same and the Cats will be a rare occurrence, so it feels fine.
Some of the artifacts feel a little janky as the list has gotten higher powered, but I think I'll need to see them drafted and played to decide if being an artifact is worth a little power less to support the theme.
I love devotion, but I'm not sure if Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Nyx Lotus have anything worth ramping to anymore. Will it be worth pursuing those cards for the sake of having a bunch of mana?
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Looking at reanimator...
From May 5th, 2021:
Conversely, your opponent can't afford to not have the removal spell or for your threat to be hexproof, etc.
This is very polarizing.
What if you still had a more middle-tiered, removable threat to give your opponent a chance to recover but you also didn't have to have the deck's ceiling cap out at netting a 2-5 mana advantage from a single card?
Last one is nonlegendary reanimate with a -1/-1 counter on it.
Animate Dead is a chore to read and I won't have it.
When the investment is lower and the ceiling of your pivotal cards is higher, the deck might come to life. Similar to the idea that a mana elf isn't high power without powerful 3-5 drops to follow it up, maybe these aren't that oppressive if they hit a Lochmere Serpent or Scuttling Doom Engine, but they're powerful enough to build your deck around.
From May 5th, 2021:
This would still be true.
Maybe this was the problem. When you spend 4-5 mana to recur your 6-8 mana threat, you aren't getting that much value unless the threat is absolutely top tier. If the threat is top tier, however, your opponent gets immediately thrashed.
When you spend 4-5 mana and your entire game plan to get a 6-8 drop, you can't afford to get it hit by removal.
Conversely, your opponent can't afford to not have the removal spell or for your threat to be hexproof, etc.
This is very polarizing.
One player will leave the game feeling bad.
What if you still had a more middle-tiered, removable threat to give your opponent a chance to recover but you also didn't have to have the deck's ceiling cap out at netting a 2-5 mana advantage from a single card?
Last one is nonlegendary reanimate with a -1/-1 counter on it.
Animate Dead is a chore to read and I won't have it.
I am liking the Artifact rework!
There are a ton of options that feel varied and well supported. I do feel that there is a gap in power level in some cards though.
For example take this ramp deck I drafted:
All spells are gas, ramp is cheap and plentiful, payoffs are powerful and there are multiple cantrips + draw spells to keep the cards flowing.
Then in your Blue section you play Qumulox. I think the card can be good, but you would need a lot of the cheapest artifacts like Mishra's Bauble and such. I don't think it competes with the like of the deck above though.
Also, since you are supporting +1/+1 counter deck and in order to tie the artifact theme more into Green (there was an article by @TrainmasterGT on this) you could probably add a few more counter cards that would go well with the Modular cards you already have. As examples:
That's all I have for now, but once again, really enjoyed the drafts.
There are a ton of options that feel varied and well supported. I do feel that there is a gap in power level in some cards though.
For example take this ramp deck I drafted:
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All spells are gas, ramp is cheap and plentiful, payoffs are powerful and there are multiple cantrips + draw spells to keep the cards flowing.
Then in your Blue section you play Qumulox. I think the card can be good, but you would need a lot of the cheapest artifacts like Mishra's Bauble and such. I don't think it competes with the like of the deck above though.
Also, since you are supporting +1/+1 counter deck and in order to tie the artifact theme more into Green (there was an article by @TrainmasterGT on this) you could probably add a few more counter cards that would go well with the Modular cards you already have. As examples:
That's all I have for now, but once again, really enjoyed the drafts.
I think the affinity cards are hard to assess until they're in play, Look at Frogmite and Myr Enforcer in Mirrodin. Both printed at common and were really gnarly in Affinity decks. Hell, the Modern deck is still called affinity despite lacking the keyword for years. I have my eye on the whole Somber Hoverguard, Qumulox, Broodstar trio. Qumulox is ok with Metalcraft and gets a lot better from there. There's also the possibility to cast is cheap as a finisher in a control deck to keep mana up. People used to play Assert Authority.
Part of the idea here was to have the creatures be a little more mid powered and the spells a little more higher powered. So maybe a 5/4 flyer for 4-5 is plenty fine in that regard.
How slow is Chrono? How snowbally is Overseer?
I only have 15 constructs, 9 of which are under 6 MV. Is Recombiner gonna cut it? I like the Modular and the sac outlet but feel like the search will often miss.
Agreed, the mechanic is bonkers. However, I think you are missing some cheap enough 0-1 CMC artifacts to make the more marginal cards like Qumulox shine.
I remember reading in the vehicle thread that you wanted some random artifact dudes. I think this guy qualifies because it's cheap, it grows and it has synergies tying it to Green. Have you ever played with Swarm Shambler? It usually sits back a bit defensively until it gets good attacks at 2+ counters. I think this is similar for you.
A little? I mean it takes a while to get going, and it's vulnerable so I think you get a fair chance of responding. It can definitely be gross with Sai or Whirler Rogue, but to me it signals that counters are supported really well.
I think that you have very reasonable targets for it now.
Cut suggestions (don't have time for the other colors right now).
Red
Fervent Champion : No other knights and I don't see much of an equip theme in Red.
Xorn: Cool signpost, but it's a potential do nothing. Sucks cutting this one.
Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch: I don't see much +1/+1 counters in Red.
BTW, is there a reason you've avoided the improvise cards?
I cut Qumulox (who I really have to resists calling Qum) today. Quite a bit more expensive than Somber, quite a bit lower ceiling than Broodstar, who may prove too expensive.
I'll grab one and see how it does. I imagine it's 5 cents.
Currently 22 equips. Is that not enough? The Knight text is kinda ugly.
Probably true on Xorn. I need to cut a red 4 and I tried drafting +1/+1 earlier and it's supported, but not so much that it's bleeding into non-GB like I thought it would. So these will go for sure.
Huh. I thought I had more. They may have been cut. Any suggestions? I think I wasn't convinced that decks would have so many artifacts out that they'd be eager to tap them down. A lot of the improvise cards look either kind of aggressive and wouldn't want to tap or look worse than a similar affinity card. Not sure.
I think Inspiring Statuary is worth a look at least. At worst it’s a 3 mv mana rock. At best it’s ramping hard and is a single card build around.
Herald of Anguish is very strong, maybe too much so here. At five mana (so 2 artifacts) 5/5 flyer that disrupts opponent and is a potential mana sink is pushed.
As for the knight, he is probably just fine. But it’s tough finding others and he seemed a little isolated in Red, hence my suggestion.
BTW, sorry for my phrasing of improvise. I meant it as a “have you considered “ more than an accusation.
Herald of Anguish is very strong, maybe too much so here. At five mana (so 2 artifacts) 5/5 flyer that disrupts opponent and is a potential mana sink is pushed.
As for the knight, he is probably just fine. But it’s tough finding others and he seemed a little isolated in Red, hence my suggestion.
BTW, sorry for my phrasing of improvise. I meant it as a “have you considered “ more than an accusation.
True. That's pretty interesting and it's kind of a rock. Would be a lot more appealing if I didn't have 2MV rocks, but the ceiling is nice.
Yeah. Skipped Herald for being too much.
I've got my eye on him. He seems really cool to suit up on turn 2 or 3, but maybe that's too infrequent.
Might be better to go for the slightly over sized list and whittle it down through playtesting, anyways. I want 405 rather than 450 so I have to tokens compartment in my box. 450 means I have the tokens in an extra deckbox, so the stakes are pretty low.
Not gonna bother me unless you're really an asshole about something lol.
EDIT: I thought my list was more budget than it is... Will only be able to get the list 80-90% as planned. Will look at what I'm missing and decide if the online list will be "as desired" or "as is."
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Ok, the quantity of tokens I'm going to need will be greater than the little compartment in the main box. The list will stay at ~450, so it's basically good as is. Gonna order all the cheaper stuff in the next few days here.
I also cut Esika's Chariot, Myr Battlesphere, and Pentavus for being the only card to produce their respective tokens.
I also cut Esika's Chariot, Myr Battlesphere, and Pentavus for being the only card to produce their respective tokens.
super happy to hear you’ve got a draft coming up! hope it goes great!
Came and passed. I was going to make a post about it, but didn't. Been pondering ever since. I got the comment that it feels more like an artifact cube than a black cube now, so I've got some tinkering to do on the numbers.
I'll tweak the numbers a bit and possibly play again soon, but COVID is really ramping up again, so I'm not sure. As I adjust the black to artifact ratio, I'm sure Innistrad 3 is going to have plenty of cards for me, so I can imagine that influencing the design significantly.
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