oh yeah the 14th was like a week ago, my bad
The Black Cube
- Thread starter Brad
- Start date
To address the "it's a black heavy artifact cube, not an artifact heavy black cube" issue:
I wanted to go deep into artifacts to achieve a level of Mirrodin nostalgia. I think that may be in opposition to the idea of being The Black Cube. I think you simply can't have a list fully invested in two flavorful themes. That isn't to say it can't have a shitload of archetypes, one of which can totally be artifacts, but it can't feel simultaneously dark like the old list and highly technological like Mirrodin. Maybe it can, but it would be a difficult balance to find that I can imagine would eventually interfere with the design.
As a result, I'll be looking to throw the artifact theme way into the background. Certainly no more affinity. Maybe a big artifact payoff somewhere alongside a decent artifact presence.
I did decide to 2007-ify my cube. The spells are like 8/10s (strong 1B kill spells, good blue filtering) and the creatures are more like 6/10s (guys who need time to impact the board). It worked totally fine. Didn't notice any negatives from that decision.
I wanted to go deep into artifacts to achieve a level of Mirrodin nostalgia. I think that may be in opposition to the idea of being The Black Cube. I think you simply can't have a list fully invested in two flavorful themes. That isn't to say it can't have a shitload of archetypes, one of which can totally be artifacts, but it can't feel simultaneously dark like the old list and highly technological like Mirrodin. Maybe it can, but it would be a difficult balance to find that I can imagine would eventually interfere with the design.
As a result, I'll be looking to throw the artifact theme way into the background. Certainly no more affinity. Maybe a big artifact payoff somewhere alongside a decent artifact presence.
I did decide to 2007-ify my cube. The spells are like 8/10s (strong 1B kill spells, good blue filtering) and the creatures are more like 6/10s (guys who need time to impact the board). It worked totally fine. Didn't notice any negatives from that decision.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/rsyt
EDIT: Cut the Selesnya anti black idea. New idea is still in that link. Much blacker.
EDIT: Cut the Selesnya anti black idea. New idea is still in that link. Much blacker.
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artifacts still seem kinda high? i would think you could go down there by 10-20 if you take out the ones least likely to be maindecked, maybe add a couple more cards in the mono sections or some more fixing lands. my perception of the fixing is definitely skewed though, because i’m not sure how everything being black + X affects that aspect
Intending to cut 10 or so artifacts. Could be 20. It's high because the list started as a clone of the artifact heavy version.
It's a lot easier because every land is considerably more playable. It's at 11% fixing once it's trimmed to 450, which seems like the consensus amount around these parts. I guess it's worth noting that this list is somewhat budget, hence the exclusion of fetches.
that makes sense. just some random thoughts on black creatures to try when you cut artifacts:
Grim Wanderer
Priest of Forgotten Gods
Phyrexian Rager
Sedgemoor Witch
Grim Wanderer
Priest of Forgotten Gods
Phyrexian Rager
Sedgemoor Witch
Grim looks pretty fun/tricky to use.
I had Priest but two creatures always seemed like a lot and it didn't see play.
Rager might be a worthwhile mild ETB. Those are hard to come by. They seem to either do super little or be really pushed modern designs.
Witch scares me. I had her in the list and cut her. After playing recently, she seems too annoying.
I'm gonna look at a list that gets back to the cube's roots. Really black cards.
yeah Witch is kinda sorta reALLLLY good
i have enjoyed Wanderer immensely in my arena artisan cube, and haven’t been able to cast him yet in the paper cube but cmon, 5/3 morbid flash for 2! FINALLY a good morbid card!
i have enjoyed Wanderer immensely in my arena artisan cube, and haven’t been able to cast him yet in the paper cube but cmon, 5/3 morbid flash for 2! FINALLY a good morbid card!
The Virgin Phyrexian Rager vs The Chad Priest of Ancient Lore
i’ll run basically any creature from 1-3MV that cantrips and has at least a decent rate if my size allows tbh
I think the real chad selection for a black cube would be callous bloodmage, which you already run. Don't think you need to put in a (mostly) worse version of it.
i mean… i run Lightning Bolt but also Roil Eruption. if the effect is a basic desirable effect, and there are two decent variants of it, is it really a deal breaker if one of the variants is a little worse than the other?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Do you want two ragers?
I just redesigned the cube and I'm redesigning it again.
I have no idea what I want.
Just run two bloodmage if you want two of that specific mediocre cantrip effect. Roil eruption and Bolt are very different cards, if you had said "I run Bolt but also Shock" it would be closer, and I would just say "why not run 2 bolts"
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/rsyt?f=mv=5+t:creature
Can someone confirm for me that the quintuple hybrids aren't outclassed here? I feel that they may be important to be flavorfully black. I feel like some cards are a little questionable, but everyone's analysis is slightly different and I'd like more opinions.
EDIT: @ravnic low power God
Can someone confirm for me that the quintuple hybrids aren't outclassed here? I feel that they may be important to be flavorfully black. I feel like some cards are a little questionable, but everyone's analysis is slightly different and I'd like more opinions.
EDIT: @ravnic low power God
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ummmmm what does Demigod of Revenge even do here? is it a squad pick?
EDIT: i think the lieges generally are gonna be a lot stronger than whatever the other cycle is called, simply because they have more immediate impact and are easier to accrue value from once you untap. the other cycle is just a bunch of weird kinda bad effects.
EDIT: i think the lieges generally are gonna be a lot stronger than whatever the other cycle is called, simply because they have more immediate impact and are easier to accrue value from once you untap. the other cycle is just a bunch of weird kinda bad effects.
It's a big flier with haste.
You think all the quintuple hybrids are severely outclassed among those 5 drops, then?
okay reading through the list again… not really. you have a couple high power outliers (Golos, Angel of Invention, Golos, Golos, Golos) but most of these 5 drops are pretty low power. so the hybrids aren’t outclassed too badly except for Golos just being insane compared to the rest of that filtered list
I think the hybrids look fine in your list. What stood out to me was Kuldotha Phoenix with the triple red pips.
I could see your Green and White cards having tougher mana requirements if you want GW to stand out and "oppose" Black, but I think it is too tough for a Red card.
I could see your Green and White cards having tougher mana requirements if you want GW to stand out and "oppose" Black, but I think it is too tough for a Red card.
oh yeah good point about the phoenix, that does seem a little hard to hardcast
Golos is that good? I haven't actually had it in play. It can go. It's mostly intended as a Nykthos grabber. Angel was one of the ones I was worried about. Stacks up too well against Divinity.
I cut the GW thing. I'm going BLACK on this list. It used to feel super black, that's why I'm starting at 5MV with the hybrids. Want to be sure those are in there to reinforce that this is The BLACK Cube.
Phoenix with the triple pips is probably fine in BR, but it is a little risky and I was worried that -1 power, +1 reanimation ability was stepping on Demigod's toes a bit, anyways.
yeah, golos is really good. even if the land you’re grabbing is just a fixing land or some fair utility land, i can still grab him early, draft Bwurg goodstuff, and ramp myself to 7 to start casting stuff for free off the top.
Edits made to 5 drops.
My concern now focuses on Gitrog and Lark, but I suspect they're only the best in the slot by a bit and add more depth to the environment than they take away from Deity or Divinity.
Shout out to the hidden lark, Graceful Restoration. I'm liking lark plus fabricate conceptually.
My concern now focuses on Gitrog and Lark, but I suspect they're only the best in the slot by a bit and add more depth to the environment than they take away from Deity or Divinity.
Shout out to the hidden lark, Graceful Restoration. I'm liking lark plus fabricate conceptually.
Is there any reason you avoid boardwipes in your cube? I checked out the list but couldn’t find any of the usual suspects. Not even the bad ones like Forced March
Was this a conscious decision?
Was this a conscious decision?