General The Draft Exchange

Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Personally, I think Spear of Heliod has more synergies if you want to run that effect, since it's also an artifact, plus it has additional utility in a more controlling deck because of its activated ability.
 
Erik Twice

Erik Twice

Onderzeeboot said:
Personally, I think Spear of Heliod has more synergies if you want to run that effect, since it's also an artifact, plus it has additional utility in a more controlling deck because of its activated ability.
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Spear of Heliodis better from a strict gameplay perspective but I kind of hate it! :eek:

I mean, "Legendary Enchantment Artifact"? Having two different types (Artifacts, Enchantments)* for the same kind of card is already fairly questionable design, is there really a big benefit to putting both of them on the same card? It looks awkard, specially in the context of the rest of the game.

The combination of abilities is kind of awkard, too. If you have creatures that benefit from the +1/+1 boost, how often are you getting attacked? And if killing attacking creatures is such a huge benefit, to you really care about the +1/+1? In a sense, Spear of Heliod is a combination of Glorious Anthem and Royal Assassin and that just looks wrong to me. Perhaps it plays better in practice, but at a glance, I don't like it.

Still, I don't know how to evaluate Glorious Anthem. I suspect it's not great but it's an effect I want.

*Strictly speaking, it's three different types since Planeswalkers ocuppy the same design space.
 
Erik Twice

Erik Twice

Anyways, I'm drafting astraedm's cube. I actually drafted it yesterday but the deck was a forced mess that I knew wouldn't work so I decided to try again.

I start with Search of Azcanta and Fact or Fiction and then pick up more MUC pieces along the way. I grab a couple nice cards and start focusing on clearing the board and surviving. There are not a lot of picks and I have to take care to not end up too top-heavy. Still, there are enough counterspells to slow the game down, I think it's more than possible to reach the late game and start dropping planeswalkers before losing to a rush.

UB Control from CubeTutor.com










 
astraedm

astraedm

Erik Twice said:
Anyways, I'm drafting astraedm's cube. I actually drafted it yesterday but the deck was a forced mess that I knew wouldn't work so I decided to try again.

I start with Search of Azcanta and Fact or Fiction and then pick up more MUC pieces along the way. I grab a couple nice cards and start focusing on clearing the board and surviving. There are not a lot of picks and I have to take care to not end up too top-heavy. Still, there are enough counterspells to slow the game down, I think it's more than possible to reach the late game and start dropping planeswalkers before losing to a rush.

UB Control from CubeTutor.com










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Looks good! Also my bad, I was TOTALLY thinking of Crusade. Anthem is a fine inclusion.


Out of curiosity, what did you try to force the first time??
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb

Onderzeeboot's draft of Staple cube on 20/05/2019 from CubeTutor.com












Well, that came together nicely! Even wheeled some sweet stuff, like Survival, to end up in what looks like a blast of a Sneak Attack / Kiki-Jiki Combo deck. Notice I can either fetch up a Plains for the Restoration Angel by searching up a Solemn Simulacrum, or I can throw the Resto under the bus and Sneak Attack it out :)

Also love the sweet interaction between Sneak Attack and Helm of Obedience / Erratic Portal!
 
Erik Twice

Erik Twice

Hey, thanks! It does look like a lot of fun to play, though I'm a big coward and would have added Chainer's Edict and other cheap interaction to smooth the curve, but chances are you can survive without it.

Something I'm noticing and which I like a lot is that most decks from my cube are two colours with 1-2 splashed cards. I think that's a good ratio and I like the options it opens.

By the way, Helm of Possession has been an amazing inclusion. I saw it mentioned here as a hidden gem and it's 100% right. It makes it way into all sorts of different and interesting decks yet creates interesting decisions. It has the right cost, too and is neither unbeatable nor oppresive. So far, I really like it.
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

GalacticTraveler12 said:

Ru Burn (possible trainwreck) from Highball Cube










saw sulfuric vortex and Chandra and tried to draft traditional burn. I couldn't find many red creatures I liked (though upon further examination of the cube list, it seems I just got unlucky in the matter), so we're going all in with mainly just burn and more ways to find burn (except for Socerous Spyglass; I needed a 23rd card)
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I think you should have thrown in the Battlefield Forge in your pool so you can cast both halves of Depose // Deploy.

U/G Hour of Promise












P1P1 Nightveil Sprite
P1P2 Harrow
P1P3 Cloudthresher
I really like Nightveil Sprite, so much so that I even forgot to buy one for my own cube :p
Anyhow, I really didn't have a clue as to what I was supposed to be doing for about half of the draft. I thought I was looking at a ramp theme with Harrow when that is clearly not the case after examining the list, and I kind of settled into a weird spells/deserts list after picking up Hour of Promise and Ramunap Excavator. Honestly, I'm very impressed you were able to get the desert as-fan to the point so that one can support deserts matter cards without feeling like deserts are dominating the draft experience. Bond of Insight and Rise from the Tides actually seems really good here. So, that's that.
 
astraedm

astraedm

Drafting Highball. Congrats on getting the cube up, by the way! Always love reading your insights on the philosophical part of cube design.

I p1p1 a Key to the City, aware that Lightning Bolt is a more powerful card in pretty much every way. Then I take Zahid, because that's a c-c-c-c-ombo baby...
Past that, I'm looking for stuff that likes being discarded or cares about artifacts. I really want to try and make Hollow One work, so I'm moving into UR rather than RB for Bloodhall Priest. I have the choice in pack 2 to go in a more controlling direction, but that's for cowards and I want to put pressure on, passing up some slower looters that don't attack in favor of stuff like Chart a Course and Izzet Charm.
Jeskai Ascendancy comes around in pack 3, and I'm IN.

Jeskai Ascendancy Aggro from CubeTutor.com










 
Erik Twice

Erik Twice

I drafted your cube but then crashed. I built a very nice UW control list with Tinker/Colossus and a nice stack of counterspells and so on. But what I've noticed is that you have quite a few artifact-based cards but few artifacts. You have to rely on thopter generators to get some of the cards to work. It's possible, but it doesn't feel a bit of a trap to draft cards like Cranial Plating with less than 30 artifacts in the cube.
 
GalacticTraveler12

GalacticTraveler12

Drafted Erik Twice's cube:

RG Cheat from CubeTutor.com











The focus is sticking Sneak Attack or Oath and perhaps hitting the Kiki combo. The token production from Deranged Hermit is a bit of a nonbo with Oath, but there's always Phyrexian Altar or Ratchet Bomb with zero counters to fix your creature count. I wish I had gotten some more recursion, but looks fun. However, I noticed a few cards like Recoup and Jotun Grunt which seemed a bit weaker and narrower than the rest of the cards in the cube. I think there might be too much spice in comparison to the meat and potatoes of supporting cards, especially for the graveyard theme. Maybe you could fit a couple more looting effects in red?
 
Erik Twice

Erik Twice

Thanks a lot for the feedback! I really like the inclusion of Phyrexian Altar, it's very smart. I like that the deck seems interactive and will play differently in each game.

There are indeed a couple cards that are narrow or unsuported. I've been changing things and those cards you mention are part of it. Recoup is a placeholder for Gifts combo, while I'm fond of Jotun Grunt as a defensive card. Neither may stay in the cube in the long run. You are right there needs to be a little bit more support for the graveyard theme, specially in red. I was thinking of adding Dismissive Piromancer or Cathartic Reunion, for example. Thanks a lot!
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

GalacticTraveler12

GalacticTraveler12

That's one spicy meatball! I think the mana curve is low enough that it's basically an interactive burn deck. However, the Lantern of Insight looks a trifle out of place, and I find myself wondering if your clock is fast enough to run Mizzium Tank. I think I would cut those two for the Mogg War Marshal and Scrap Trawler in your pool (the latter of which I am very surprised you didn't play; a 3/2 that can trade and grab you a bauble is great here). Also, both of these are great with Makeshift Munitions. The deck is an exciting cocktail of engines I didn't expect to see together. Due to Vessel of Nascency's ability to grab any of your value enchantments, Welder, or just a cog, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the card you'd be most happy to see while playing this. After seeing this build, I am becoming more and more enticed to try running Mindstorm Crown. You could play out your cogs but wait a couple turns to cash them in while you draw a bunch from the Crown, then go nuts cracking them with your Pia's Revolution or Faith's Reward at the ready. Next turn, start the process all over again! :)
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

GalacticTraveler12 said:
That's one spicy meatball! I think the mana curve is low enough that it's basically an interactive burn deck. However, the Lantern of Insight looks a trifle out of place, and I find myself wondering if your clock is fast enough to run Mizzium Tank. I think I would cut those two for the Mogg War Marshal and Scrap Trawler in your pool (the latter of which I am very surprised you didn't play; a 3/2 that can trade and grab you a bauble is great here). Also, both of these are great with Makeshift Munitions. The deck is an exciting cocktail of engines I didn't expect to see together. Due to Vessel of Nascency's ability to grab any of your value enchantments, Welder, or just a cog, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the card you'd be most happy to see while playing this. After seeing this build, I am becoming more and more enticed to try running Mindstorm Crown. You could play out your cogs but wait a couple turns to cash them in while you draw a bunch from the Crown, then go nuts cracking them with your Pia's Revolution or Faith's Reward at the ready. Next turn, start the process all over again! :)
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I don't think Scrap Trawler does enough in this deck. The majority of the artifacts that can trigger off it have a CMC of 1, so they can't grab anything back.
 
GalacticTraveler12

GalacticTraveler12

TrainmasterGT said:
I don't think Scrap Trawler does enough in this deck. The majority of the artifacts that can trigger off it have a CMC of 1, so they can't grab anything back.
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I'd say a 3/2 with a deathrattle of 'draw a card' is plenty good, and recurring a spellbomb is typically even better than that, thanks to flexibility and the multiple payoffs you've got. Besides, if you can draw it with Mindless Automaton or Welder, you're golden. I imagine the usual case is that it trades with something (advantage to you) or they use removal on it (no one wants to willingly 2-for-1 themselves. Truthfully though, you don't have many creatures for the opponent to use removal on, so killing it to clear the path for a swing might be their optimal move). The worst-case scenario of them hitting it with an exile effect does sound pretty unfortunate, though.
 
Rowan_CB

Rowan_CB

Drafted Highball. P1p1’ed Kitchen Finks thinking about shenanigans but kept getting fed a steady diet of high-value GW cards. Ended up with a few ramp pieces but had to scramble a bit to find payoffs. My guess is this is a deck that would go 2-1 or 1-2, depending on how successful it is at drawing it’s ramp pieces first. Lots of real strong potential turn 3 plays if it can get even one piece of acceleration out.

GW Rampy Midrange from CubeTutor.com










 
astraedm

astraedm

Drafted Rowan's.

Mardu Trinkets from CubeTutor.com












First picked a Salvaging Station out of curiosity, was pleasantly surprised by the support for it. I was a little torn between Esper and Mardu, but figured Welder and PnK were strong enough pulls to ignore Trinket Mage and some of the card draw. This looks like it draws a lot of cards and ends up in a Goblin Welder / Meteor Golem loop, finishing them off with Angel of Invention/Pia and Kiran + Rally the Peasants. I have a million ways to make land drops and fix my mana, and plenty of ways to recur combo pieces. Seems awesome!
 
Rowan_CB

Rowan_CB

Love it! Thanks for the draft. It’s funny because drafting a salvaging station trinkets deck from Grillo’s cube on cubetutor was a seminal cube design moment for me. I was like, you can have decks like this?!
 
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