Card/Deck The Saga of Cubing
- Thread starter LadyMapi
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Yes, I run (or have run) a lot of Sagas:
You don't need to do anything to support them- the best sagas are normally good cards by themselves. Certain Sagas are good to blink, The First Iroan Games is best for this because blinking it at sorcery speed with something like Flickerwisp is easy because the 4th chapter is so negligible that you don't really miss out on anything major by doing so.
They can play well with proliferate effects, or enchantment reanimation. Again, you don't need to do anything to explicitly support sagas since so many of them are just good cards to begin with. They're just fun cards that tell cool stories.
Do you mean that they help because they are enchantments that send themselves to the graveyard, because they don’t count as a separate type.
I also love sagas, because they tell little stories.
I wonder if you could make sagas an archetype. There is quite a bit of stuff they synergize with.
It's mostly blink, bounce and recursion, but that's all flexible parts here. Maybe it could be a
theme that bleeds nicely into the more traditional blink deck?
Sadly I don't run any sagas so far.
It's mostly blink, bounce and recursion, but that's all flexible parts here. Maybe it could be a
theme that bleeds nicely into the more traditional blink deck?Sadly I don't run any sagas so far.
Yes obviously. Normally enchantments don’t end up in graveyards unless opponent decides to do so. And it usually takes time. These ones have a build-in self-destruct button.
On the other axis I lik artifact creatures for delirium because they have two types and easily die but that’s another topic.
I'm glad to see that my dumb idea of "just run all of the Sagas, and build your cube around them" might actually go somewhere decent .
Looking at the Sagas we've gotten, I'm not sure that they could be an archetype by themselves. Like, let's look at the Green ones for a second:
I can see running a couple of them in the same deck (Binding and Mending both want to be in a self-mill deck, after all), but I can't see playing all four in one deck in a cohesive way. If we throw in White:
Again, some of those cards go together - I could see the Games and Triumph showing up in the same deck, for one thing. But it'd be an "I want a big fat creature" deck, not a Saga deck.
.Looking at the Sagas we've gotten, I'm not sure that they could be an archetype by themselves. Like, let's look at the Green ones for a second:
I can see running a couple of them in the same deck (Binding and Mending both want to be in a self-mill deck, after all), but I can't see playing all four in one deck in a cohesive way. If we throw in White:
Again, some of those cards go together - I could see the Games and Triumph showing up in the same deck, for one thing. But it'd be an "I want a big fat creature" deck, not a Saga deck.
The only two that have survived long term in my cube are:
Your power level will determine whether the others will work for you, but I can vouch that these two hold up well in a higher powered environment. Benalia is just solid value all around on its own without needing to exploit any synergies while the Antiquities War is a great finisher if you have an artifacts archetype in U/x colors and works great with anything that creates thopters.
Your power level will determine whether the others will work for you, but I can vouch that these two hold up well in a higher powered environment. Benalia is just solid value all around on its own without needing to exploit any synergies while the Antiquities War is a great finisher if you have an artifacts archetype in U/x colors and works great with anything that creates thopters.
I run these:
Testing, but this idea is to improve white's smoothing. It should be good for control, slower builds of the artifact archetype, and maybe lifegain.
This is pretty strong. It's good in any blue tempo deck, and a payoff-enabler in the tappers deck.
Payoff-enabler for the sacrifice deck. Enabler for the tokens deck. Even outside these decks, it's pretty decent because the tokens can hold off attackers until the demon comes, and though it often gets killed you get quite a bit of value and lower the opponent's tempo in the process.
I run it as an occasional. It's an exciting card, but I moved it to occasionals because blue already has plenty of spells payoffs, and this was wordy and a bit repetitive.
Testing, but this idea is to improve white's smoothing. It should be good for control, slower builds of the artifact archetype, and maybe lifegain.
This is pretty strong. It's good in any blue tempo deck, and a payoff-enabler in the tappers deck.
Payoff-enabler for the sacrifice deck. Enabler for the tokens deck. Even outside these decks, it's pretty decent because the tokens can hold off attackers until the demon comes, and though it often gets killed you get quite a bit of value and lower the opponent's tempo in the process.
I run it as an occasional. It's an exciting card, but I moved it to occasionals because blue already has plenty of spells payoffs, and this was wordy and a bit repetitive.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Two sagas that weren't mentioned yet but have been super decent additions for me are
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Sagas are fantastic - the timing of the triggers is a bit awkward but otherwise they are exactly what that kind of multifaceted CA effect should look like. Other than the obvious Blink stuff, effects that can sacrifice them before an unneeded final chapter (Vraska, Golgari Queen or Doom Foretold as recent Standard examples but I like Cavalier of Dawn as a way to 'sac' and also rebuy a Saga later)
These can reset a Saga every turn - T2 Conduit T3 History of Benalia is a formidable curve
A nice offbeat finisher for blue
These can reset a Saga every turn - T2 Conduit T3 History of Benalia is a formidable curve
A nice offbeat finisher for blue
Two sagas that weren't mentioned yet but have been super decent additions for me are
How constant is the prophecy?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've personally never seen it not draw two cards. It's scry 2, draw 2 for two mana, except you have to wait a few turns and you have to signal what you're going to do. I really like it
I wonder if you could make sagas an archetype. There is quite a bit of stuff they synergize with.
It's mostly blink, bounce and recursion, but that's all flexible parts here. Maybe it could be a
Sadly I don't run any sagas so far.
I am currently revisiting this idea. It's mere brainstorming, but I'm still tempted by the thought of having sagas as a theme. I'm a little bored by the tokens theme I've been running that also leads to board stalls. Sagas are also much cooler than regular enchantments because you can interact with them in so cool ways. Removing counters, blinking them, they also bin themselves, so they are much better with enchantment recursion. ANd I like how they interacte with my white prowess theme. Has anyone tested this yet, in any capacity?
Here are some new support cards I like from the recent years since this thread has been opened.
I am currently revisiting this idea. It's mere brainstorming, but I'm still tempted by the thought of having sagas as a theme. I'm a little bored by the tokens theme I've been running that also leads to board stalls. Sagas are also much cooler than regular enchantments because you can interact with them in so cool ways. Removing counters, blinking them, they also bin themselves, so they are much better with enchantment recursion. ANd I like how they interacte with my white prowess theme. Has anyone tested this yet, in any capacity?
Here are some new support cards I like from the recent years since this thread has been opened.
I've been keeping a saga cube since Neon Dynasty for threads like these
For me personally, it's not necessarily about finding sagas that work well together, but finding effects that leverage the saga card type and its inherent characteristics to help my game plan. There's a wide power gap between the best sagas and the worst sagas, which means I usually default to drafting sagas on power level, and then figuring out my other cards based on these axes:1. Cards that care about historic. (Sarah Jane Smith, Sentinel of the Pearl Trident, Cabal Paladin, Gloin, Dwarf Emissary, Jamie McCrimmon). Also dovetails into artifact and legendary support.
2. Cards that care about enchantments (Archon of Sun's Grace, Doomwake Giant, Eidolon of Blossoms)
3. Cards that care about sacrifice (Obsessive Pursuit, Goblin Blast-Runner)
4. Cards that care about things leaving play (revolt, void, disappear etc)
5. Cards that care about things going or staying the graveyard (Starfield Mystic, Fear of Missing Out, Moonshadow, Kami of Transience)
6. Cards that care about counters (Scholar of New Horizons, Storm of Forms, Drown in Ichor, Akki Ember-Keeper, Signature Slam)
7. Cards that reset permanents (Sunpearl Kirin, Displacer Kitten, Stickytongue Sentinel)
Putting my deck together involves figuring out how to exploit as many of these angles as possible and combining them to execute my game plan.
In the future, I also expect more possibilities to emerge based around exploiting saga triggers, along the lines of Weaver of Harmony, Gogo, Master of Mimicry and Peter Parker's Camera. For that same reason, I think Loki, God of Mischief has a lot of potential due to many sagas targeting permanents for multiple turns. This could be interesting design space if we got more cards like Green Slime and Trigger Happy.
Most of the Neon Dynasty transform sagas and Final Fantasy creature sagas + Huatli, Poet of Unity are A++ in my book. Enchantment creatures as well, to a lesser extent, since they help with points 2 and 4-5 (enchantments entering/leaving and enchantments dying/being in the yard). I think the transform sagas from Avatar are mostly just okay and the praetor sagas from March of the Machine are pretty silly. The wedge sagas from Dragonstorm are nice to have with enough fixing, but they don't do much that guild sagas don't already do for a better cost. The Eldraine and LotR sagas + City of Death opened up incidental trinket support by creating a bunch of artifact tokens to play with. It really gets that Tough Cookie cooking.
I won't bore you with a rundown of how every set's sagas ranked for me, but Spider-Man and Marvel Super Heroes both got some excellent sagas and Spider-Man's at least were re-themed to be more Magic, so I hope MSH and Star Trek (yay more sagas!) get the same treatment eventually.
Flickerwisp is often mentioned, so here's a couple Saga-adjacent cards that are generic enough to pass as normal cube cards:
Two of my favorite decks to draft in this cube revolve around The Antiquities War and Brilliant Restoration. Antiquities War requires me to juggle enough artifact card type and trinket generators to get that big attack turn, while Brilliant Restoration asks me to juggle enough looting/sac and ramp to make sure I get there.
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I posted about sagas last year in a random cube project if anyone is interested:
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/the-asylum.4144/#post-138564
Ended up with many similar mechanics as PyreDreams mentions. It’s a fun and open ended card type that is worth exploring!
https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/the-asylum.4144/#post-138564
Ended up with many similar mechanics as PyreDreams mentions. It’s a fun and open ended card type that is worth exploring!
I recently added Rydia inspired by @Nanonox, and I've been super happy with her. Originally, the saga text was a distraction, as I really liked her for the landfall ability so much that I didn't mind what I considered trinket text, but the more I looked at my Cube, the more I realized there are some extremely cool sagas I'm already playing and could be playing. Tameshi, Reality Architect is also a longtime pet card of mine that's a power outlier in the negative direction that I stubbornly keep around but can be the MVP of the right game, too.
I love the Final Fantasy saga creatures from a gameplay POV, and so I've been testing out some of the limits there. While it feels emotionally bad to replace a long-time Cube favorite like Grave Titan with Summon: Primal Odin, which I did and then reversed recently, I think it might end up being the right direction for my Cube overall.
And as fiddly as they are as game pieces, requiring not just dice and flipping the cards over, but understanding sagas at a glance to boot, I have really enjoyed the previous Avatars.
Some cards I've been looking at to expand this Saga theme that I've been experimenting with lately, several of which will likely end up in my Cube long-term, many of which have been, once again, inspired by @Nanonox and also by the delightfully designed Roast.
Other interesting Sagas:
The biggest reason I don't play these is because I don't have copies, somehow. I will fix this shortly. If I were running these, I'd easily justify both Replenish and Eiganjo Dynastorian.
While I've been in love with this card since it was printed, I'm a coward and haven't given it a proper shake. Our hometown hero @Dom Harvey is not a coward and it's been in his Cube for 2+ years, so I should probably bite the bullet on this one and include it.
These are so cool but just have so much text on them. Unlike Fable of the Mirror-Breaker, they're also unlikely to have shown up organically in EDH games or at the Pro Tour, so the lack of familiarity makes the DFC-ness and wordiness twice as bad. Gameplay-wise, they're ideal, but I can't stomach either, sadly. Teachings of the Kirin would likely be better for my Cube than Leaves from the Vine, but yeah, I need to respect my players.
The power-level is actually a little low for a 3-color card, but I like it enough that I'd play it in the right conditions. Currently, I only run one card for each three-color combo, and this just doesn't spark as much excitement for drafters to convince them to want to play such a mess of a mana cost.
Flametongue Kavu for the modern age, but actually though. If I had a second card that made these assassin tokens, I'd be reasonably interested in this card.
But honestly, the biggest thing getting in my way for having more sagas is currently class enchantments. The gameplay is similar enough that they end up competing for the same slots, and I'm running about the same amount of each. The issue is also that the cards sticking out to me most in my 0n-deck binder are more classes than sagas, but sagas have better synergies as a card type, so I've been struggling. Some cool recently-printed classes I run or really like include:
And I'm still really happy with plenty of the Bloomburrow ones as well.
I love the Final Fantasy saga creatures from a gameplay POV, and so I've been testing out some of the limits there. While it feels emotionally bad to replace a long-time Cube favorite like Grave Titan with Summon: Primal Odin, which I did and then reversed recently, I think it might end up being the right direction for my Cube overall.
And as fiddly as they are as game pieces, requiring not just dice and flipping the cards over, but understanding sagas at a glance to boot, I have really enjoyed the previous Avatars.
Some cards I've been looking at to expand this Saga theme that I've been experimenting with lately, several of which will likely end up in my Cube long-term, many of which have been, once again, inspired by @Nanonox and also by the delightfully designed Roast.
Other interesting Sagas:
The biggest reason I don't play these is because I don't have copies, somehow. I will fix this shortly. If I were running these, I'd easily justify both Replenish and Eiganjo Dynastorian.
While I've been in love with this card since it was printed, I'm a coward and haven't given it a proper shake. Our hometown hero @Dom Harvey is not a coward and it's been in his Cube for 2+ years, so I should probably bite the bullet on this one and include it.
These are so cool but just have so much text on them. Unlike Fable of the Mirror-Breaker, they're also unlikely to have shown up organically in EDH games or at the Pro Tour, so the lack of familiarity makes the DFC-ness and wordiness twice as bad. Gameplay-wise, they're ideal, but I can't stomach either, sadly. Teachings of the Kirin would likely be better for my Cube than Leaves from the Vine, but yeah, I need to respect my players.
The power-level is actually a little low for a 3-color card, but I like it enough that I'd play it in the right conditions. Currently, I only run one card for each three-color combo, and this just doesn't spark as much excitement for drafters to convince them to want to play such a mess of a mana cost.
Flametongue Kavu for the modern age, but actually though. If I had a second card that made these assassin tokens, I'd be reasonably interested in this card.
But honestly, the biggest thing getting in my way for having more sagas is currently class enchantments. The gameplay is similar enough that they end up competing for the same slots, and I'm running about the same amount of each. The issue is also that the cards sticking out to me most in my 0n-deck binder are more classes than sagas, but sagas have better synergies as a card type, so I've been struggling. Some cool recently-printed classes I run or really like include:
And I'm still really happy with plenty of the Bloomburrow ones as well.