General Vakeztan - A Riptide Lap-Set

An idea was growing in my mind: How cool would it be, to see, if I could create a deep, balanced limited environment - not with the cards wizards print, but completely out of nothing. It would be a hard task, but also a very fun one.

Then another idea came to me: What I could need, was a team. A group of people, who know how to create a balanced limited environment, full of synergies and interesting ways to go. ANd who would be better for this job, than the Riptide crew?

Okay, here's my plan: I would always give out something like: "A red common burn spell", "a white rare with ability X", or "an anchor card in BG for archetype X", sometimes with a first sketch, if I think I'm on a good idea, sometimes without. We would then share ideas and discuss until everyone participating is satisfied with the result. Then I would add the card to the full spoiler, which will be added to this post.

It would be a nice creative activity, challenging and fun for us, I'd say. We would share ideas on every card/mechanic/cycle until it is done, and it can always be changed. No deadlines, doesn't matter if it takes 3 hours or a week to get a card right. Also, we would use our hive mind to find right artworks for the cards, then, at some point, those cards could be proxed out in good quality for actual drafts and games.


Okay, here is my first sketch:

Vakeztan is a wild continent on an uknown planet, losely resembling central asia (Kazakstan, Uzbekistan) etc. with rough mountains, hot desserts, exotic jungles and beautiful coasts. It's a dangerous place with giant beasts of all kind. The sentient inhabitants are humans, elves, viashino, ogres, and leonin.

Game play wise, I'm imagining a wedge set, where every one of the 5 factions actually is focused on the enemy color, so unlinke Khans did it. Every faction gets a keyword, plus I want to add cycling as a neutral mechanic, because it is so great at smoothing and reducing the number of nongames significantly.


Here are my ideas for the factions:

{W}{B} {R} centered in {W}
A desert folk which is praying to the sun. They are doing sacrifices to calm the good of heat. Their honored dead get embalmed magically after dying to do the hard work, their people could not do in the daily heat.

Machanic: Embalm. That was my inital idea and I love the idea in these colors, focused on {W} also makes sense with the white mummy tokens.

Races: Human, Viashino, Leonin

{U}{R}{G} centered in {U}
A folk lead by shamans, living in the jungle. They embrace the nature and it's forces. Their shamans are masters of illusions and they know how to mix certain plants for an emowering and mind-expanding experience, which they believe, brings them closer to their gods. This magical drug is what I try to embrace in their mechanic.

Mechanic: I though of an ability word, that gives you something for every card you've drawn this turn, but mayve someone has a better idea.

Races: Human, Viashino, Elf

{B}{G}{W} centered in {B}
Clans of Rough Nomads and Warriors, pillaging through the lands. They are scared of nothing. To travel across the continent, they've become extraordinary beast tamers, domesticating and enslaving the creatures of the wild.

Mechanic: "~Mount", an ability that will be on the domesticated beasts like: "T: Target creature gets +P/+T for as long as ~ remains tapped. When that creature dies this tun, sacrifce ~. Mountonly as a sorcery."

Races: Human, Ogre

{R}{W}{U} centered in {R}
They are Conquerers from another continent, ccepting their truth as the only right one believe and traveling across the world to either missionary people or erase them.

Mechanic: I thought of their playstyle to be about instants/sorceries that create tokens, but not something that's just a spells matter mechanic. To get the invasion feel, something that cares about having the most creatures/lands/permanents would be cool.

Races: A new race from another continent ... any ideas? Should be something fitting the colors and with enough art to chose from.

{G}{U}{B} centered in {G}
Jungle Folk of proud fighters and shamans, surviving in the rough wilderness thanks to being masters in disguise and guerillia. They defend their native ways angainst intruders passionately. They hunt the worlds giant beasts in groups by attackign them from the undergrowth.

Mechanic: Morph? That would be a good fit, but I'm keen on hearing opinions on this too.

Races: Elf, Leonin


Last but not least, we should keep in mind to have 10 archetypes for 2-color decks, in addition but resulting from/harmoizing with the 5 factions. Here' a quick sketch what could make sense imo:

WU Cycling? Skies?
UB Saboteurs
BR Aggro
RG Cycling?
GW Beast Tribal
WB Your creatures dying matters
BG Power matters
GU +1/+1 counters
UR Instants/Sorcerys matter
RW Tokens matter

But that should be only a side note for now.

Ooookay. I'm sorry for any spelling mistakes, I had to rewrite all this, because my laptop died. Let's start with focusing the 5 wedge factions and finding the ideal mechanics for them. If enough people are into this, we could soon start with creating the first actual cards!
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
First thoughts (sorry for being brief and critical):
  • embalm is cool, though eternalize has more room for shenanigans because the power and toughness changes
  • your Sultai mechanic feels dangerous
  • mount looks a bit boring and hard to balance, because it snowballs
  • morph is cute but heavily restricts your environment, and also works better when it's in all colors, otherwise the guessing game doesn't really work when people play a morph while in a shard where only one color overlaps with the morph shard
If you use eternalize instead of embalm, you can switch the mechanic to Sultai, then make Mardu the invasion color, using raid as another returning mechanic, then find something new for Jeskai? Sorry if I'm stepping on your design toes :)
 
No, critical is exactly what we need to make this awesome!
And I agree totally with you that the draw mechanic (it's not sultai, it's Temur, color wise) is dangerous and probably bullcrap. Also, morph is probably not great as a wedge mechanic.

Any ideas for {U}{R}{G} and {G}{U}{B}?


I"m a bit more hesitant to cut Embalm and Mount, though, they feel like flavor homeruns to me. Other opinions?

And again, don't say sorry man, the moment you posted here you became a member of the design team ;)
 
I'd like to review the ten archetypes in Khans of Tarkir, since Vakeztan has some similarities to it, and I also quite liked Khans of Tarkir.

The first five archetypes were the wedges, and were largely informed by a keyword mechanic:
WGB: Raid
URG: Ferocious
BGW : Outlast
RWU: Prowess
GUB: Delve

The other five archetypes were based on enemy color pairings;
WRx Aggro
UGx morph matters
BWx warriors
RUx control
GBx toughness matters.

Reference

I also liked Innistrad, which had five ally archetypes which were tribal, and five enemy archetypes which were mechanics, generally graveyard related.

Now you have mentioned your five tribes. If each of those tribes were put in two enemy colors, then you could fuse these designs together; five enemy tribal decks, and five wedge mechanics (non-tribal though)

Of course your tribes will still need gameplay identities; for instance in innistrad WU spirits was a skies deck, UB zombies was a weird style of reanimator-like deck, and RG werewolves were ...werewolves?

It should be noted that for the enemy pair archetypes, the themes they drew upon were all very deep; e.g. morph creatures, warriors, and cards you might put in a control deck were in all colors. I'll have to think about that a bit.
 
Projects like this are very ambitious, and great fun! I wish you luck and will follow your progress and will try to chime in if I think I have something remotely useful to say.

One essential tenant of many riptide cubes is to include versatile cards that slot into multiple archetypes. Here, you have an advantage we do not have in cube, which is complete control over the mechanics that will inform your archetypes. I think it would be a missed opportunity not to weave in the possibility for overlapping enabling mechanisms.

I would focus on a favorite custom mechanic, then think of other mechanics, pre-existing or otherwise, that cross-section with some, but not all, elements of that mechanic, and go from there.

Finally, FWIW, embalm does not feel flavorful for me outside of an explicitly Egypt-derived world like Amonkhet.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
If done as above, mounted might be fun?

Oh, and I just thought of something. Can't we use the scroll mechanic for either Jeskai or Temur? Jeskai probably fits best as a color combination that usually cares about spells. I even have a link to the MSE files somewhere... /me searches... There it is:Custom Cards: The Lab! I don't have a Jeskai example at the ready, but here's a repost of an old green design to give an example.

Wild Summoner.jpg Summon Elemental.jpg

Also, the swarm mechanic I thought of last year might work well for the feel of getting invaded. Could work well as a Temur mechanic as well actually, if you make that the invading guild. Use some kind of insect people as the new race maybe? Though you do have to find art for that.

Stinging Ants.jpg
 
Great to get so much input!

That scroll emchanic sound interesting, but I'm not sure I quite get it. Is it like a sorcery you can cast from exile? Also, I totally love swarm. We could make it the invaders faction actually, question is if it fits flavourfully?

Also, I'm not dead set on mount at all. If we could find a better mechanic, that makes {B}{G}{W} the tough beast tamers, I'm all in. It appears this is even more difficult than I initially thought, haha.

I would say, let's focus on one faction a time, starting with the abzan-colored one. We need a name and a mechanic, and obviously we could experiment with flavour and everything else too. I don't want my initial ideas to be more than starting points! :)

And yeah, Knifethrower, the color patterns of Khans and especially the deep limited environment of Innistrad is what made me hyped for that whole idea!
 
Okay, another suggestion for {B}{G}{W}. This mechanic does not capture the flavour of an animal be mounted, but it shows the giant beasts you need to tame, so they folow your orders. It is a bit like crewing vehicles, but you have to do it only once, like turning a creature monstrous was in theros.

Wild Gharial {2} {B}
Creature - Crocodile Beast (C)
Wild Gharial can’t attack or block unless it’s tamed.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 5 or greater: Wild Gharial becomes tamed.
5/4

Hungry Hippo {2} {G}
Creature - Hippo Beast (U)
Trample
Hungry Hippo can’t attack or block unless it’s tamed.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 3 or greater: Hungry Hippo becomes tamed.
3/4

Earthshaking Devourer {3}{W}{B}{G}
Creature – Dinosaur Beast (R)
Trample
Sacrifice a creature: Other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn
Earthshaking Devourer can’t attack or block unless it’s tamed.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 6 or greater: Earthshaking Devourer becomes tamed.
6/8


It would open up additional design space for the beastmasters:


Ogre Whiplasher {2}{B}
Creature - Ogre Warrior (C)
When Ogre Whiplasher tames a creature, that creature gets haste until end of turn.
3/2


Also, for cross-over, there could be creatures that react to being tapped:

Tough Veteran {1}{W}
Creature - Human Warrior (C)
Whenever Tough Veteran becomes tapped, target creature gets +1/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
1/1
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
That scroll emchanic sound interesting, but I'm not sure I quite get it. Is it like a sorcery you can cast from exile?
Yep, that's exactly it. Basically it's a way to create tokens for instants and sorceries, which naturally can't exist on the battlefield (because they're not permanents) or in your hand (because they're not actual cards). They sure can exist in the command zone though (see Planeswalker emblems)!

Also, I totally love swarm. We could make it the invaders faction actually, question is if it fits flavourfully?
Swarm is a mechanic that cares about going wide and copying creatures. I think {U}{R}{G} is the best faction for this, since, well...



The existing cardbase kinda speaks for itself here.

Also, I'm not dead set on mount at all. If we could find a better mechanic, that makes {B}{G}{W} the tough beast tamers, I'm all in. It appears this is even more difficult than I initially thought, haha.

I would say, let's focus on one faction a time, starting with the abzan-colored one. We need a name and a mechanic, and obviously we could experiment with flavour and everything else too. I don't want my initial ideas to be more than starting points! :)

So, raid is a mechanic that used to be Mardu, maybe it's too soon to push, but it does fit your description. Still, I kinda like the mount card I thought up, might do well in limited. Of course the activation should be restricted to sorcery speed. The main thing is you can only mount a creature that isn't mounted yet, with that there's a lot less risk of just building an unkillable, huge threat (with trample or evasion).
 
That Swarm Mechanic would fit perfectly into {U}{R}{G}, we would just need to find a new flavor fitting that. ANd for the initial idea of having them be alchemists, I think that would be much better fit for {G}{U}{B} anyway, so I would move that there. I also have a idea how to capture that mechanically, but on step after the other.

Let's get {B}{G}{W} done. How could they be named?
 
That sounds on point to me. Do you like my taming mechanic as it is?
I feel like it makes sense when the tame number is related to either power or toughness, not sure which one though
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Not sure about the "can't attack or block" rider, but yeah, I like the idea. Should work kinda like monstrous. Let's see... The idea is these beasts are wild, right? How about...

Wild -- <cardname> can't block and attacks each turn if able.
Tame X (Tap any number of non-wild creatures with total power X or greater: This creature loses wild.)

That's a bit messy, but you get the idea. I would definitely find a way to tie this ability together and make it instantly recognizable.
 
Tame seems like a good mechanic. Flavorwise, I feel like the power of the creatures tapped to tame should exceed the tamed creature's power, but that does decrease the power level. I like the idea of the wedge getting power-boosting instant and sorceries that can be used to "cheat" into earlier tamed creatures. I believe the mechanic should work with a counter though. I.e.:

Hungry Hippo can’t attack or block if it has no tame counters on it.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 3 or greater: put a tame counter on Hungry Hippo.

Although the number of negatives in the first sentence is confusing. Somebody better versed in templating could probably figure it out, but I do believe the counter is necessary to keep track of the taming across turns.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Hungry Hippo can’t attack or block if it has no tame counters on it.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 3 or greater: put a tame counter on Hungry Hippo.

Although the number of negatives in the first sentence is confusing. Somebody better versed in templating could probably figure it out, but I do believe the counter is necessary to keep track of the taming across turns.
Still think wild creatures should be attacking, not sitting back pacified. I really like your idea of needing greater power though, that means you can unify the reminder text for the ability because you don't need a parameter any more (or rather, can determine the parameter dynamically based on the creatures stats). Borrowing from level up for the short hand wording (and pushing my own drawback again :p)...


Wild (<cardname> can't block and attacks each turn if able unless it's tamed. As a sorcery, you may tap any number of non-wild creatures with total power greater than <cardname> to tame it. If you do, put a domestication counter on <cardname> and it loses wild.)
 
I thought about the counter problematic too and I really like your idea to solve it, Rowan. How about this wording:

Hungry Hippo can't attack or block unless it has a tame counter on it.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 3 or greater: put a tame counter on Hungry Hippo.

The only downside I could see, is that creatures can't have abilities that trigger when they tame something. But since "When becomes tapped" is still working, I would be fine with it. That's less narrow also.

And to your version, Ondee, I get the wild vibe from attacks each turn, but I think that's not enough of drawback to want to tame them, since you're probably attacking with your 6/6 anyway. EDIT, you ninja'd me with your new template, but it seems so wordy still. Don't you think the flavor of a beast just not doing what you want is fine? Don't see it as pacifistic behavior.

Okay, to further nail down the Khunda Tribes, I'm going to suggest the first actual card. This on is meant as an uncommon signal post for this wedge, motivating you to tame a lot of beasts:



Beast Overseer {1}{B}{G}{W}
Creature - Ogre Warrior (U)
Vigilance
Whenever Beast Overseer becomes tapped, draw a card and gain 1 life.
4/4


Flavorwise, that is the grim guy, who is responsible to watch over the tamed beasts and increases knowledge over them and providing advantage for his people while doing so. Gameplaywise, the idea is, that a 4/4 vigiliance for 4 is a good baseline, but since he doesn't tap when attacking, you are encouraged to use him for taming beasts to get full advantage out of his abilities.

By the way, why did noone tell me about that akward typo in the title :D
 
I do like the idea of the untamed creatures attacking each turn, although there will be many board states where players would not be incentivized to tame their creatures, so their power/toughness to cmc might need to be reined in (no pun intended). Another (maybe too off-the-wall) option:

At the beginning of combat on your turn, if ~ is Wild, tap it. It deals damage equal to its power to a player chosen at random.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I thought about the counter problematic too and I really like your idea to solve it, Rowan. How about this wording:

Hungry Hippo can't attack or block unless it has a tame counter on it.
Tap any number of non-beast creatures with total power 3 or greater: put a tame counter on Hungry Hippo.

The only downside I could see, is that creatures can't have abilities that trigger when they tame something. But since "When becomes tapped" is still working, I would be fine with it. That's less narrow also.

And to your version, Ondee, I get the wild vibe from attacks each turn, but I think that's not enough of drawback to want to tame them, since you're probably attacking with your 6/6 anyway. EDIT, you ninja'd me with your new template, but it seems so wordy still. Don't you think the flavor of a beast just not doing what you want is fine? Don't see it as pacifistic behavior.
Sorry, but I really dislike the "can't attack", that does not communicate "wild beasts" at all. Maybe my version isn't enough of a drawback, in which case I strongly believe we should find something else altogether. Also, I personally really, really dislike stat walls (like Nullhide Ferox). Introducing a negative mechanic to justify overstatted creatures is something I would actively dislike both designing for and playing with. I'ld much rather find an interesting drawback that doesn't encourage us to just +1/+1 all stat lines.

Okay, to further nail down the Khunda Tribes, I'm going to suggest the first actual card. This on is meant as an uncommon signal post for this wedge, motivating you to tame a lot of beasts:

Beast Overseer {1}{B}{G}{W}
Creature - Ogre Warrior (U)
Vigilance
Whenever Beast Overseer becomes tapped, draw a card and gain 1 life.
4/4

Flavorwise, that is the grim guy, who is responsible to watch over the tamed beasts and increases knowledge over them and providing advantage for his people while doing so. Gameplaywise, the idea is, that a 4/4 vigiliance for 4 is a good baseline, but since he doesn't tap when attacking, you are encouraged to use him for taming beasts to get full advantage out of his abilities.

Vigilance is pretty annoying on a big body. And this is just an uncommon? I think I would drop the vigilance. It's exciting if you draw the card on attacking as well! Also, it still works just as well with taming creatures that way.

I do like the idea of the untamed creatures attacking each turn, although there will be many board states where players would not be incentivized to tame their creatures, so their power/toughness to cmc might need to be reined in (no pun intended). Another (maybe too off-the-wall) option:

At the beginning of combat on your turn, if ~ is Wild, tap it. It deals damage equal to its power to a player chosen at random.

Haha, love it :) That's an interesting vein. Maybe a bit too random, it's an ability spike won't like at all. Let's riff...

  • Wild (At the beginning of your upkeep, ~ deals X damage to you and/or non-wild creatures you control.) (playtesting probably needs to determine the amount of X and the targets).
  • Wild (~ can't attack or block if a non-wild creature you control is also attacking or blocking.)
  • Wild (At the beginning of combat, if ~ is untapped, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, tap ~.)
Oh wait, what if we decoupled the wild ability from the way to tame it? If you do it like this, you can actually make various wild abilities!
Wild -- At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~ is wild, it deals 2 damage to you. ( As a sorcery, tap any number of non-wild creatures with total power greater than <cardname> to tame it. If you do, put a domestication counter on <cardname> and it loses wild.)
 
All these version feel flavorful, but kinda akward and wordy for gameplay. What if we focus the flavor more on being hard to control, rather than wild in an aggressive sense? We could just call it domesticating and use domestication counters?

You ninja'd me again :p
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
All these version feel flavorful, but kinda akward and wordy for gameplay. What if we focus the flavor more on being hard to control, rather than wild in an aggressive sense? We could just call it domesticating and use domestication counters?

You ninja'd me again :p

Haha :p

This way might be even better:
Wild ( As a sorcery, tap any number of non-wild creatures with total power greater than <cardname> to tame it. If you do, put a domestication counter on <cardname> and it loses wild.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~ is wild, it deals 2 damage to you.

Two lines means the ability is easier to parse, I think, and now you can actually drop the reminder text on higher rarities that need the room for more complicated text.
 
Vigilance is pretty annoying on a big body. And this is just an uncommon? I think I would drop the vigilance. It's exciting if you draw the card on attacking as well! Also, it still works just as well with taming creatures that way.

Looks like I am ignoring you haha, stop posting seconds before me!

How would you like this guy if we drop it to 4/3 or even 3/3 or 4/2? I would kinda like to keep the vigilance.
 
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