Card/Deck Vanilla creatures
- Thread starter Jonas
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
A vanilla 2/2 for C or a 3/3 for 1C would be cubable I guess. Aside from aggro decks though, vanilla creatures just aren't that interesting. I couldn't imagine a balanced vanilla card that a control deck would want to play for example.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Okay french vanilla but still
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
And I think that may be it?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
best vanilla creature:
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Well technically
Edit: Damnit!
Edit: Damnit!
CML
Contributor
every cube needs some cheap beaters that do nothing but attack and block! if i am not mistaken, adding some of these, along with improving guys like Tarmogoyf and Wild Nacatl, is one of this forum's great innovations. in grim mongo cubes, the complexity of value or activated ability guys is no complexity at all.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Considering by definition of vanilla means a lack of abilities, all a vanilla creature can offer is being bigger then other creatures at the same cost.
That perfectly fine for for Kird Ape, Kalonian Tusker and Wholly Thoctar, which are pretty good cards and in a less powerful cube you could stretch a couple more in there.
It'd be pretty hard to plan an environment where a vanilla 5+ drop in desirable though unless you aggressively overcost your non-creature cards.
That perfectly fine for for Kird Ape, Kalonian Tusker and Wholly Thoctar, which are pretty good cards and in a less powerful cube you could stretch a couple more in there.
It'd be pretty hard to plan an environment where a vanilla 5+ drop in desirable though unless you aggressively overcost your non-creature cards.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
FWIW: Goyf's stats aren't fixed and can even be changed at instant speed, so I wouldn't call it a vanilla creature any more then I would Champion of the Parish or Mortician Beetle.
If the criteria is "only used for attacking and blocking" then that opens up a lot of other cards.
If the criteria is "only used for attacking and blocking" then that opens up a lot of other cards.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I play Kalonian Tusker and its a marginal roleplayer. If I ever took out the green devotion cards, it would be an easy cut. I think a 3/4 would be good enough, the one additional toughness is a big deal.
I think the "only attacks and blocks" definition is more useful than "only flavor text."
Curve is important for every deck. I regularly play random 2-drops in my control decks to have early blockers and a way to pressure planeswalkers.
That said there are a lot of 2-3 drop creatures with appropriate stats and useful abilities. You can have your cheap beater and your cool synergy enabler in one card.
Curve is important for every deck. I regularly play random 2-drops in my control decks to have early blockers and a way to pressure planeswalkers.
That said there are a lot of 2-3 drop creatures with appropriate stats and useful abilities. You can have your cheap beater and your cool synergy enabler in one card.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
4/4 probably
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
At 2 mana people are willing to play 3/2s with downsides (Borderland Maurader, Gore House Chainwalker), so I'm thinking CC for a 4/4 with no drawback is more then you need to be playable.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Of course, but then again, loxodon smiter...
It's gold though, and we have so precious few slots for those cards. There are a ton of multicolored cards that would be auto includes if mono colored. Including this dude. 4/4 uncounterable for 3 mana? That's pretty good (even if it's a little boring).
Look at how many hybrids suddenly become competitive as soon as you include them in mono colored sections? Snakeform for example is awesome but is it awesome enough to justify one of your 3 Simic slots? That's the issue.
CML
Contributor
if you mean 2 colorless and something else:
i'd probably include Kalonian Tusker if it were a 3/4, agree with FSR. Watchwolf isn't good enough but Tusker is almost there and Fleecemane Lion is kinda fun
Is Reverent Hunter interesting? I guess I wouldn't be thrilled if Centaur Courser represented the average case, even if on occasion he blew up to be huge.
Would people cube a
vanilla 4/4? Perhaps a 4/5?
Would people cube a
vanilla 4/4? Perhaps a 4/5?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Reverent Hunter is interesting, at least if your environment doesn't run tons of wraths.Is Reverent Hunter interesting? I guess I wouldn't be thrilled if Centaur Courser represented the average case, even if on occasion he blew up to be huge.
Would people cube a
I don't think I'd cube a vanilla green 4/4, mostly because I don't think it would add anything to the environment. Wholly Thoctar and Leatherback Baloth at least encourage something.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think he's talking about Leatherback Baloth vs Woolly Thoctar? That's a pretty interesting question actually, but my gut feeling is that GGG is more restrictive than RGW.
Now let's look it up. I linked to this excellent article by Frank Karsten before, and it answers our question pretty well. To achieve GGG by turn 3 with a 90% probability you need 16 green mana sources in a 40 card deck. To reach RGW by turn 3 you need 8 of each. 16 seems pretty unrealistic in a two-color deck, whereas 8 seems far more manageable if you prioritize fixing enough.
Now let's look it up. I linked to this excellent article by Frank Karsten before, and it answers our question pretty well. To achieve GGG by turn 3 with a 90% probability you need 16 green mana sources in a 40 card deck. To reach RGW by turn 3 you need 8 of each. 16 seems pretty unrealistic in a two-color deck, whereas 8 seems far more manageable if you prioritize fixing enough.
8 of each is pretty easy.
Consider that if you have all basics you have 17 total mana sources. In a three-color deck each fetchland gives you access to 3-colors (assuming you have corresponding shocklands) and each dual gives you access to 2. So, +2 and +1 respectively. We have to get to 24 (3 * 8) so that requires us to add +7 mana sources to our deck, or, 2 Fetches and 3 Shocklands, which is par the course for cube decks running 20/20 out of 360.
The question is more about the distribution of your decks. Here we have far more
decks than decks.
I wouldn't play a vanilla creature at 2C, no matter how big. It's just uninteresting. On the other hand, Reverent Hunter looks cool.