I don't think I've ever made someone stick to a play after having realized they didn't understand how damage stacked. That always seemed like the excuse of the ignorant and heartless individuals. Damage on the stack made creatures more dynamic and made a good number of them quite a bit better, but whatevz I was just illustrating how some elements of the game have changed since a number of old standby interactions were null'd.
Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
Lucre you are objectively wrong* and it's just a matter of taste so hopefully we'll get a new spoiler to talk about instead.
edit: *disclaimer, I'm poking fun on the notion of there being objective tastes
edit: *disclaimer, I'm poking fun on the notion of there being objective tastes
Hey don't tell my boy Lucre off like that. Who cares if he's wrong, who are you to put him on blast like that? Leave the cold hearted crushing of one's beliefs to our unofficial mascot, CML. That's just how we do.
Sorry I'm just being facetious 
I feel like you can argue for both rulings just as well so it just depends on your play group.
I feel like you can argue for both rulings just as well so it just depends on your play group.Man I thought only me and CML and eric put people on blast here.
I'm not sure how there could be an objectively wrong here. I let new players make tonnes of take backs and grave effects and sac creatures were often better with damage stacking and felt like something you could build a deck around as opposed to something you had to go out of your way for. omg jk nbd dkm lol
I'm not sure how there could be an objectively wrong here. I let new players make tonnes of take backs and grave effects and sac creatures were often better with damage stacking and felt like something you could build a deck around as opposed to something you had to go out of your way for. omg jk nbd dkm lol
scroogeLab.thrd
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Get out
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, the old legend rule was horrible, but as long as we're all acting as a fogey, I might as well reminisce another sucky rule
Man, can you imagine how nice Kamigawa would have been with the current legend rule in place? No more Isamaru vindicating another Isamaru, let's settle it in the red zone! No more dirty Kokusho tricks! No more "guess I did draw a third Jitte, mise!"
Dom Harvey
Contributor
The old legend rule was much better for Jitte because if one player connects with it the other player never can. At least under the old system you could use yours as a Naturalize.
let's get started
I just learned that Moonmist kills her instantly. That's a strange interaction that I hadn't thought about.
This probably got debated into the ground way back when. And I'm totally derailing here (in true Riptide fashion), but...
What is the argument against damage on the stack? Everything seems to use the stack, so I don't' see why it's more logical that damage shouldn't use it suddenly.
And mana burn is the shit. Killing myself with mana burn to not give my opponent the satisfaction is like a running joke in our group. Never gets old.
Had an opponent try to rules lawyer me at an fnm when I first got back into magic. he flooded out at one point, decided to die by mana burn rather than me attacking him because I didn't "deserve the win." I told him that mana burn was no longer part of the game and asked if I could attack yet.
1) Mana burn was dumb. It was mostly a bad joke to kill yourself with it, or just a dick way to disrespect opponents. I think the only positive it could have is making Fateful Hour slightly worse.
2) Damage on the stack isn't like other things going on the stack. Don't act like it is, either. It was a complicated mess that led to a little bit more depth at the cost of too much confusion. Get over it.
3) Despite its popularity, MtG is still a geek hobby with a high enough learning curve and a pretty miserable community in half the places I've been. It's hard enough to get a cube group together that you can trust that also plays well. No need to make that more of a chore with even more crap.
2) Damage on the stack isn't like other things going on the stack. Don't act like it is, either. It was a complicated mess that led to a little bit more depth at the cost of too much confusion. Get over it.
3) Despite its popularity, MtG is still a geek hobby with a high enough learning curve and a pretty miserable community in half the places I've been. It's hard enough to get a cube group together that you can trust that also plays well. No need to make that more of a chore with even more crap.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Among the things I can think of that don't use the stack:
- Playing lands
- Replacement effects like Clone
- "If" effects like Bloodthirst
- Mana abilities, e.g. Llanowar Elves
- Suspend
- State-based actions, like the Legend rule
- Morphs!
Which, to be fair, is a bit too harsh a punishment for the average UR storm player. They've already neutered the deck and then some so much it hurts...
I don't know. I just think a lot of people arguing vehemently against mana burn and damage on the stack would do a 180 if Wizard's came out in a year and said they were putting damage back on the stack and re-adding mana burn. It's like the power creep / walker debate. Wizards decided to do it and some people are just going to support the mothership simply because.
Of course some people are old and set in there ways like me, so we are going to reject some changes to the game just because. It goes both ways.
Point is, I don't think it's a clear cut thing. There is no objectively right opinion on some things, including this subject.
Of course some people are old and set in there ways like me, so we are going to reject some changes to the game just because. It goes both ways.
Point is, I don't think it's a clear cut thing. There is no objectively right opinion on some things, including this subject.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It's only relevant in corner cases. I think I've only seen mana burn matter once in all the hundreds of games I played or watched before they axed the rule. When you have to remember (or learn) a rule that comes up only once in a blue moon, you know its not pulling its weight. From a flavor point of view mana burn was pretty good, but from a game design point of view it was horrible.
If WotC brought back damage on the stack or mana burn, I'd be pretty pissed. The game is just better without them. Plays so much smoother and makes teaching newbies the game easier than ever before.
If they bring back the rules that tapped artifacts don't work and tapped blockers don't deal damage, though, I would be over the moon. So many sweet tricks. Icy Manipulator really was the bomb.
Back when our pauper cube was just "old cards from boxes", we had a lot of creatures that, I think, were intended for play with damage on the stack. Lots cards that, for or maybe sometimes , could be returned to your hand.
We really liked it as a "free blocker" or "can't use removal spells on it" thing, it seemed to work fine. Now our cube has StP and other nonsense in it, so those cards are gone, but it was fun. Damage on the stack would probably have made those cards feel oppressive, because you'd basically never want to attack into them at the risk of getting 1 for 0'd. But that might just be cuz our other cards were too low power.
or maybe sometimes , could be returned to your hand.We really liked it as a "free blocker" or "can't use removal spells on it" thing, it seemed to work fine. Now our cube has StP and other nonsense in it, so those cards are gone, but it was fun. Damage on the stack would probably have made those cards feel oppressive, because you'd basically never want to attack into them at the risk of getting 1 for 0'd. But that might just be cuz our other cards were too low power.