General Print this Wizards! (So I can put it in my cube)
- Thread starter Chris Taylor
- Start date
While I hate to rag on a fellow designer...well...
Every time I see it I notice something else wrong
I think this is what people imagine when I tell them I have custom cards in my cube
More things:
When you reduce the cost, you have to specify which mana bubble you're applying the reduction to?
Why make the ability be (X + 1)? Wouldn't 'X1WU: Counter CMC X spell' work better? I can't imagine the game being very fun with this guy on the battlefield.
For Undertow, what if you have a multicolor spell on the stack? You choose one of its colors?
How are you ever going to get a cost reduction from undertow? If I am already playing spells, where is the extra mana going to come from to cast this 9CMC beast? Am I supposed to generate a storm count here? Flusterstorm then cast this guy?
Aside from a couple really obscure cards, Dwarf is neither white nor blue. Shouldn't countering spells be a Wizardly thing?
Thank god he's a legend though, wouldn't want two of these guys on the battlefield.
Wait, this dwarf is the weirdest card I've ever seen in a while.
1. Is it for a "mana cost matters" theme? Because I am positivelly sure that you would never want to say that mana costs from spells already cast are reduced (it is bad signaling as players might expect to get their mana back), plus, even though the correct order for announcing spells makes instant/flah spells cheaper, you could very well say that spells that you are casting before this guy resolves cost 1 less.
2. The text for the second ability seems way off. First, untapped is not a decisive quality for the creature. Also, creatures don't inhabit the stack.
3. Why the hell would you want to lower the cost of your spells by 1 and two hybrids (as written, this will never gives discount on regular mana) while you have a 9-mana creature on the stack?
Man, some people just love to breach the boundaries of what is known in card design for the heck of it
On my two entries: I know they are off on the power scale, but they are meant to be PowerCube/Commander cards only, where a higher power level is expected (or even needed, especially for commander early drop creatures), though yeah, devour 2 should probably be better for that bird.
1. Is it for a "mana cost matters" theme? Because I am positivelly sure that you would never want to say that mana costs from spells already cast are reduced (it is bad signaling as players might expect to get their mana back), plus, even though the correct order for announcing spells makes instant/flah spells cheaper, you could very well say that spells that you are casting before this guy resolves cost 1 less.
2. The text for the second ability seems way off. First, untapped is not a decisive quality for the creature. Also, creatures don't inhabit the stack.
3. Why the hell would you want to lower the cost of your spells by 1 and two hybrids (as written, this will never gives discount on regular mana) while you have a 9-mana creature on the stack?
Man, some people just love to breach the boundaries of what is known in card design for the heck of it
On my two entries: I know they are off on the power scale, but they are meant to be PowerCube/Commander cards only, where a higher power level is expected (or even needed, especially for commander early drop creatures), though yeah, devour 2 should probably be better for that bird.
I will say that I really like the Devour mechanic, and wish that there were some more playable cards with it. I could do some good work with a quality Devour card in my current cube. It's an intuitive enough mechanic that I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring it back someday. They even put it on Planechase II card(s?), so maybe there's hope.
But yes, Devour 3 would be a little insane for a 1-drop flier. I mean, Fettergeist and the like are perfectly playable as three-mana 3/4 fliers.
But yes, Devour 3 would be a little insane for a 1-drop flier. I mean, Fettergeist and the like are perfectly playable as three-mana 3/4 fliers.
Jason, son, have a seat. I think it's time we had a conversation about the internet.
See, on the internet, everyone has a voice. And with the relative anonymity provided by the internet, people don't take the time to filter themselves.
They say dumb things. Really dumb. We've all seen it, and no matter how dumb of a thing you find; there will always be something that's out there, ready to top it.
Why do people say these things, you ask? Sometimes it is because they are indeed, really dumb. The thing is, they are so dumb, they don't understand how dumb they are. As a result, it's best to ignore them.
But others? They think saying dumb stuff is funny. Why? It's hard to say. Some people get a perverse pleasure out of wasting each others' time. Now between friends, this might occasionally be an amusing joke. But on the internet? Playing dumb is a dumb concept.
My point is: there's a lot of dumb out there on the internet. Try to ignore it, if you want to stay sane.
Unleash adds the rider of not being able to block with a +1/+1 counter, so it can be an awkward memory issue.
Alternatively, you could use only undying and allow the creature to upgrade right when it ETB, with no outside help:
Undying
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice it.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
That's cool now for a downside. I'm thinking etb tapped. I want it to be useable on the defensive, but not insane, and not useless. I also like the idea of someone killing it to tap it
now for a downside. I'm thinking etb tapped. I want it to be useable on the defensive, but not insane, and not useless. I also like the idea of someone killing it to tap it
I need somebody to scour the internet for the world's most poorly designed fan-made double-faced card. Maybe the flipping follows a Markov chain based on some obscure thing (number of nonbasics tapped at the beginning of the declare blockers stage). Preferably it would also have some custom mechanic on each side. The world has been waiting to see Ostracize and Exilefall on the same card.
Maybe we should just run a forum contest to see who can make the most hilarious badly designed card.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Back to the main topic, an interesting point of discussion came up on the MTGS forums recently:
What cards would you want colorshifted for your cube?
It origionally asked only for cards that aren't currently in your cube, but would be in different colors (Lol Red Tinker) since the discussion becomes a bit more interesting then, but I'm not sure we need that restriction.
Here's a few I came up with:
Black Day of Judgment (For those singletoning it)
Black Goblin Bombardment
White Seal of Removal
Black Earthquake
Green Torch Fiend
Green Kami of Ancient Law
And a few more from the community:
Rackdos Putrid Leech
Mono White Selesnya Charm
Red Delver of Secrets (Maybe with something more flavorful, like the Stormblood Berserker Evasion)
Blue Weathered Wayfarer
Black World Queller (Minus Enchantments)
What cards would you want colorshifted for your cube?
It origionally asked only for cards that aren't currently in your cube, but would be in different colors (Lol Red Tinker) since the discussion becomes a bit more interesting then, but I'm not sure we need that restriction.
Here's a few I came up with:
Black Day of Judgment (For those singletoning it)
Black Goblin Bombardment
White Seal of Removal
Black Earthquake
Green Torch Fiend
Green Kami of Ancient Law
And a few more from the community:
Rackdos Putrid Leech
Mono White Selesnya Charm
Red Delver of Secrets (Maybe with something more flavorful, like the Stormblood Berserker Evasion)
Blue Weathered Wayfarer
Black World Queller (Minus Enchantments)
Chris Taylor
Contributor
As well, in looking to improve blue tempo in my cube, I've been looking for cheap, disruptive creatures which still pack a bit of a punch; the Snapcaster mages, Kiras and Silvergill Adepts of the World.
mostly at the 2 drop slot, because I've found blue's early creatures to be sorely lacking in impact.
I've come up with a few:
Tideshaper Adept 1U
When ~ enters the battlefield, target land becomes an island for as long as ~ remains in play
2/1
Mistwalker 1U
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target creature to it's owners hand unless it's controller pays 1.
2/1
Deepwater Guide UU
Flash, Soulbond
As long as ~ is paired with a creature, both creatures have shroud.
2/1
I've been trying to pin down exactly what "aggro control" means, and reflect that in my designs. Obviously I'm still far from the answer, but I feel that's where I want blue tempo and black control to be.
mostly at the 2 drop slot, because I've found blue's early creatures to be sorely lacking in impact.
I've come up with a few:
Tideshaper Adept 1U
When ~ enters the battlefield, target land becomes an island for as long as ~ remains in play
2/1
Mistwalker 1U
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, return target creature to it's owners hand unless it's controller pays 1.
2/1
Deepwater Guide UU
Flash, Soulbond
As long as ~ is paired with a creature, both creatures have shroud.
2/1
I've been trying to pin down exactly what "aggro control" means, and reflect that in my designs. Obviously I'm still far from the answer, but I feel that's where I want blue tempo and black control to be.
I like a lot of these, but am actually not too big of a fan of Goblin Bombardment in black. I like that the sacrifice cards are spread around other colors, and you can't just sit on some monoblack deck. I think that would fall into the category of "good in my cube, not good for my cube".
Chris Taylor
Contributor
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/pvs-playhouse-aggro-control/
Here's the artcile about aggro control for those interested. I'm currently looking into if it's possible/worth it to design my blue/black sections in this direction
Here's the artcile about aggro control for those interested. I'm currently looking into if it's possible/worth it to design my blue/black sections in this direction
Red is one that never seems to work for me when I'm trying to put together those decks. Gargadon decks being sorta the exception of course, but those are more like balance decks etc anyway. Maybe that changes with the inclusion of bombardment. I just would prefer the black sacrifice decks didn't require having so many different moving parts for you to be carving out your tiny bit of value. I guess one exception to this is nightmare but again that's sorta a bit removed.
Anyway on this subject, this framework won me one of the little contests on salvation recently. I don't know if they'll ever be nice enough to give us this but it looks reasonable.
Horror2
Legendary Creature - Zombie Horror? (M)
When [Horror] dies, each player loses 1 life, discards a card and then sacrifices a permanent.
4/4
I don't really want it to be smallpox because I feel like it'd be to easy to get a raw deal on your opponent's terms that way.
Red is one that never seems to work for me when I'm trying to put together those decks. Gargadon decks being sorta the exception of course, but those are more like balance decks etc anyway. Maybe that changes with the inclusion of bombardment. I just would prefer the black sacrifice decks didn't require having so many different moving parts for you to be carving out your tiny bit of value. I guess one exception to this is nightmare but again that's sorta a bit removed.
Anyway on this subject, this framework won me one of the little contests on salvation recently. I don't know if they'll ever be nice enough to give us this but it looks reasonable.
Horror2
Legendary Creature - Zombie Horror? (M)
When [Horror] dies, each player loses 1 life, discards a card and then sacrifices a permanent.
4/4
I don't really want it to be smallpox because I feel like it'd be to easy to get a raw deal on your opponent's terms that way.
Red I think has the best potential for pairing with a black sacrifice deck, but it takes some explicit support in design. In this article I go through all the cards (by color) that work with my sacrifice themes:
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/cube-design-remodeling-part-two/
The third deck in this thread shows a RB sacrifice deck in action:
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/decks-that-have-3-0d-your-cube.47/
That's a nice card you have there. I like the death trigger, and the fact that it has a reasonable casting cost. So many of these effects are super black-mana intensive, which can be problematic from a design angle.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think I remember this guy from the thread on MTGS? Personally favorite version was the BB2 3/3 ETB smallpox, kinda a Fleshbag Marauder on Steroids.
Part of it might be that we're talking about different things: the traditional black "Sac" deck is more of a pod deck (Braids, Smokestack, Smallpox, Bitterblossom)
Whereas what you really want goblin bombardment for is more of the zombies deck (Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Blasting Station, Pawn of Ulamog, Blood Artist) which is a different animal altogether.
I actually took the repeatable pox effects (Braids and Smokestack) and skullclamp out of my cube since I thought it'd be too easy with all the recursive guys going around.
Part of it might be that we're talking about different things: the traditional black "Sac" deck is more of a pod deck (Braids, Smokestack, Smallpox, Bitterblossom)
Whereas what you really want goblin bombardment for is more of the zombies deck (Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Blasting Station, Pawn of Ulamog, Blood Artist) which is a different animal altogether.
I actually took the repeatable pox effects (Braids and Smokestack) and skullclamp out of my cube since I thought it'd be too easy with all the recursive guys going around.
Hahhaah yeah, I sorta feel like I'm trying to be charitable when I'm making more good black cards to solidify it's identity and be able to stand on it's own, but I feel like whenever you have to make it BBB or something because the card is powerful it's sorta like peeing in the soup so you can feed more orphans.
But Chris I don't see why you'd have all the recursive guys if you didn't have easy powerful ways to abuse them!
I did the same thing. It's far too easy to lock people out with a ton of Crawlers and Ghasts running around. Skullclamp + Bloodghast is pretty gross. Toss in Fastbond and you have Ad Nauseum.
I have found the zombies version far more enjoyable to play with and against.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I have easy powerful ways to abuse them, they just don't lock the game down on one side when they get going
Pawn of Ulamog, Blood Artist, Stronghold Assassin (This guy might be too good, he's new), any of the sac outlets (Most Notably Goblin Bombardment, Blasting Station, Mortarpod, and Greater Gargadon) all interact well with the recursive guys without just ending the game.
Good for my cube, and good in my cube.
Can we get a black fecundity or a black or green fecundity guy?
Schadenfreude 1B
Enchantment
(flash?)
Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play you may draw a card and lose 1 life.
Cycling: Sacrifice a creature.
I also just love skullclamp guys, it's one of those cards you can count on to make any deck passable.
Schadenfreude 1B
Enchantment
(flash?)
Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play you may draw a card and lose 1 life.
Cycling: Sacrifice a creature.
I also just love skullclamp guys, it's one of those cards you can count on to make any deck passable.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Interesting idea. I'd like it a little more like mentor of the meek instead of fecundity. Maybe this?
Mentor of the Bleak 2B
Whenever another creature you control dies, you may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.
2/2
This way it doesn't cost you life (something black really needs to grow out of) and your opponent doesn't just feel bleak about it since they can kill it or overload your mana (Wrathing when you have this and 4 dudes out, but only 1 land open doesn't feel horrible)
We can adjust his size if you like, but I think grey ogre is a good base for this kind of creature. If he was anything more efficient I think he might be too good.
Mentor of the Bleak 2B
Whenever another creature you control dies, you may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.
2/2
This way it doesn't cost you life (something black really needs to grow out of) and your opponent doesn't just feel bleak about it since they can kill it or overload your mana (Wrathing when you have this and 4 dudes out, but only 1 land open doesn't feel horrible)
We can adjust his size if you like, but I think grey ogre is a good base for this kind of creature. If he was anything more efficient I think he might be too good.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Gem from the colorshift thread:
Emeria Sphinx
Flying
Landfall: Put a 1/1 blue illusion token with flying onto the battlefield
3/3
This might go into my cube, I love it!
Emeria Sphinx
Flying
Landfall: Put a 1/1 blue illusion token with flying onto the battlefield
3/3
This might go into my cube, I love it!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
That card is pretty bonkers. I'm not sure if it's too bonkers, since the closest thing is cloudthresher and they're pretty different.
He might need to lose trample and have something else instead, but then again, advent of the wurm...
Not passing the terminate test isn't too informative: It's basically every creature ever unless it has a bonkers Enters/Leaves play trigger or is indestructable.
People have basically stopped using it because it's so ludicrously hard to pass.
For Eg, cards that pass and fail:
Reveilark: Pass
Shriekmaw: Fail
Primeval Titan: Fail
Frost Titan: Fail
Inferno Titan: Fail
Sun Titan: Pass
Woodfall Primus: Pass
Sundering Titan: Pass
He might need to lose trample and have something else instead, but then again, advent of the wurm...
Not passing the terminate test isn't too informative: It's basically every creature ever unless it has a bonkers Enters/Leaves play trigger or is indestructable.
People have basically stopped using it because it's so ludicrously hard to pass.
For Eg, cards that pass and fail:
Reveilark: Pass
Shriekmaw: Fail
Primeval Titan: Fail
Frost Titan: Fail
Inferno Titan: Fail
Sun Titan: Pass
Woodfall Primus: Pass
Sundering Titan: Pass
Passing the terminate test to these people implies it did something other than just die to terminate netting your opponent a big tempo windfall.
A card like shriekmaw passes, it did something
A card like elesh norn passes, it has been doing something
A card like grisslebrand passes it can do something
A card like yavimaya elder passes it will do something
A card like Aetherling passes it can resist
A card like Troll Ascetic passes it does resist
Lastly I'd say a card like basking rootwalla passes because they payed 2 mana to deal with it and it might have been worth two cards.
The idea was that in many of these people's cubes, six drops that don't past the terminate test don't make it. Similar with vindicate test and 5 drops. This was a discussion on what would be worth it. This guy passes the vindicate test at least a little.
A card like shriekmaw passes, it did something
A card like elesh norn passes, it has been doing something
A card like grisslebrand passes it can do something
A card like yavimaya elder passes it will do something
A card like Aetherling passes it can resist
A card like Troll Ascetic passes it does resist
Lastly I'd say a card like basking rootwalla passes because they payed 2 mana to deal with it and it might have been worth two cards.
The idea was that in many of these people's cubes, six drops that don't past the terminate test don't make it. Similar with vindicate test and 5 drops. This was a discussion on what would be worth it. This guy passes the vindicate test at least a little.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I've always heard it as "Am I happy if X" and realistically, that means if I evoke this creature and it has "target opponent discards a card" as additional text, would I play that spell.
You're right about shroud et al though, I kinda forgot about that.
Armada wurm is a good pass I think
You're right about shroud et al though, I kinda forgot about that.
Armada wurm is a good pass I think