Is Confluence really that bad? I had it in as a replacement for Cryptic Command that I thought might be more fair at 5 Mana (and 1UUU annoys me as a casting cost). I'm open to cutting it. What's a good expensive blue instant to slot in instead?
General The Draft Exchange
- Thread starter Kirblinx
- Start date
it's brutal imo, stronger than Cryptic. I noticed you're not running Fact or Fiction, which - if you're amenable to it - comes with a well-established pedigree. Plus, it's fun to resolve.
There's also Confirm Suspicions, but I've never played with it and can't speak to its power level.
FoF is tempting, but I'm kind of looking for something that isn't *just* a card draw spell (if a super neat one) or just a counterspell. Leading candidates to replace Confluence:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I’ve contemplating running very cryptic command version B as my big utility blue spell. Right now I’m running commit // memory
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
So... Which one is that again?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I always disliked the "exactly one word" in that. It seems both arbitrary and weak. In my cube that option would hit exactly Cryptbreaker, Bloodghast, Dreamstealer, Nekrataal, Genesis, Duplicant, Psychatog, Gelectrode, and a bunch of tokens. I personally liked these best.
Though the first one might actually be too good.
Though the first one might actually be too good.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh, wow, somehow I had always registered that as tap all creatures. Well... tapping out an opponent's lands as one of the options doesn't seem that attractive from a "funness" perspective.
I guess it about as unfun as your opponent's Time Warp?
Maybe it's Invasion era standard player in me (Fire // Ice that land felt so good), but tension created through tempo plays can make a game a lot of fun...on both sides.
Maybe it's Invasion era standard player in me (Fire // Ice that land felt so good), but tension created through tempo plays can make a game a lot of fun...on both sides.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, maybe I'm overvaluing the effect. You still have some room as well, since it doesn't tap most nonbasics.
Alright! Here you go:
First 3 picks:
Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Zulaport Cutthroat
Cryptbreaker
I'll be honest, I got a little bit confused while I was drafting this. Pia and Kiran Nalaar in conjunction with Zulaport Cutthroat made me think that I could draft an aristocrats deck in this cube. This was compounded by the fact that I was being continuously passed cards that indicated that I would be rewarded for killing my own creatures. Ultimately, my only sac outlets ended up being Phyrexian Tower and Pia and Kiran Nalaar. My deck took on a bit of a discard theme about half way through pack 2 when I opened a Liliana of the Veil followed by Archfiend of Ifnir. These worked well with my Oversold Cemetery from when I thought I was going to end up in an aristocrats deck. A lot of my creatures do have ways to reanimate themselves built in, so discarding them and reanimating them is an option. Ultimately, my best Aristocrat synergy is Scrapheap Scrounger with Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
I looked at your cube afterwards, and saw that my lack of sac outlets was due to the cube just not having many sac outlets. For regular creatures, you have the Birthing Pods, Dark-Dweller Oracle, Goblin Bombardment, and Phyrexian Tower. There was also Pia and Kiran Nalaar for artifacts. You might do your cube well by adding a Fallen Angel or some other black sac outlet if this is a deck you wish to support. Lyzolda, the Blood Witch could be cool here.
Retrospectively, I would have been better off going full-in on a R/B discard deck. I passed an early Flameblade Adept to pick up a Blood Artist. It's still good in my deck, but I think adept along with some of the other cards I passed would have been better.
Nice Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, by the way
(I noticed it while looking through your list afterwards. I never saw it in draft).
Here's my cube:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/90639
Drafted Trainmaster's cube:
p1p1: Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
p1p2: Scrapheap Scrounger
p1p3: Asylum Visitor
p1p4: Pack Rat
I love the Hellbent Rakdos archetype so I jumped on board the second I identified it's support. I really like the Unmask...I've considered it for my cube. I'd definitely enjoy playing this deck:
p1p1: Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
p1p2: Scrapheap Scrounger
p1p3: Asylum Visitor
p1p4: Pack Rat
I love the Hellbent Rakdos archetype so I jumped on board the second I identified it's support. I really like the Unmask...I've considered it for my cube. I'd definitely enjoy playing this deck:
Hellbent from CubeTutor.com
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Just wanted to vouch for Very Cryptic Command (the aforementioned tap version), I've been running it for several months now and it's been a blast. 3 blue can be a bummer of course; if your manabase isn't fetch + shock or similar it's only going to see play in heavy blue decks. Still, it has a lot of upsides:
-Super fun to search out with Mystical Teachings in a Ubx control shell
-It can take some fixing gymnastics, but it's neat for taking an 'extra turn' in UG tempo, in addition to recovering a key bounce or pump spell to push though the damage
-With Ancient Excavation in the Dimir section as well, it gives a bit of redundancy and resilience to Lab Man decks
-Super good with Niv-Mizzet
-Helps with that Approach the Second Sun win, burning through your deck AND/or recovering counterspells, buying you an extra turn, untapping lands (potentially bouncelands!) to fuel the immediate second cast following your hand redraw.
Overall a valuable tool in all forms of Ux control in my cube.
-Super fun to search out with Mystical Teachings in a Ubx control shell
-It can take some fixing gymnastics, but it's neat for taking an 'extra turn' in UG tempo, in addition to recovering a key bounce or pump spell to push though the damage
-With Ancient Excavation in the Dimir section as well, it gives a bit of redundancy and resilience to Lab Man decks
-Super good with Niv-Mizzet
-Helps with that Approach the Second Sun win, burning through your deck AND/or recovering counterspells, buying you an extra turn, untapping lands (potentially bouncelands!) to fuel the immediate second cast following your hand redraw.
Overall a valuable tool in all forms of Ux control in my cube.
Thanks for drafting!
I have a couple of questions:
1. What caused you to identify the archetype and about when in the draft did it happen?
2. Why did you choose not to run some of the cards you did? Is something like Killing Glare, for example, too weak?
Thanks!
Asylum Visitor is the archetype cornerstone so it was pretty clear especially after getting the scrounger. Most of the stuff in the sideboard is clunky stuff that I didn’t want to be sitting on disrupting my tempo and keeping cards in my hand to trip up hellbent triggers. Hellbent can be blisteringly fast and unrelenting if you draft it right. Some of the five drops could’ve been good, but I prefer to sculpt a super lean mana curve in this deck.
Some removal that plays well with Hellbent you could consider that’s still flexible for most other archetypes:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Don't forget
Drafted yours back!
TrainmasterGT's draft of Graveyard Combo Cube on 28/07/2018 from CubeTutor.com
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P1 P1 Pia Nalaar
P1 P2 Faithless Looting
P1 P3 Bygone Bishop
Tried to draft a fun combo deck, ended up with something half-way between aggro and combo. I made sure to include mostly creatures with CMC 3 or less so that Bygone Bishop would be better than it already is. I think this deck looks fun to play, I'm not sure how good it is though...
My Cube
Drafted Trainmaster's. Holy cow, the power band in this cube is super wide.
P1P1 Started with a Splinter Twin that didn't end up doing anything.
P1P2 Doomwake Giant, because I thought it might be fun to put Twin on that.
P1P3 Pack Rat. I'm not sure what this is doing in the same cube as Grim Guardian, but here we are.
I do like the deck I ended up in, which is a blue/black tempo madness-y thing. But I think there are too many cards in here that will overwhelm the cool synergies you're going for with raw power. Like, it's cute that I can get extra value when making rats with Drake Haven, but Pack Rat doesn't need the extra help. It will win by itself. I would recommend taking a hard look at the environment you're trying to create and narrow your power band around that point. There's some serious whiplash going on when you have Shipbreaker Kraken, which wasn't even that good in Theros limited sitting next to Elesh Norn and Sun Titan.
P1P1 Started with a Splinter Twin that didn't end up doing anything.
P1P2 Doomwake Giant, because I thought it might be fun to put Twin on that.
P1P3 Pack Rat. I'm not sure what this is doing in the same cube as Grim Guardian, but here we are.
UB Madness Tempo from CubeTutor.com
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I do like the deck I ended up in, which is a blue/black tempo madness-y thing. But I think there are too many cards in here that will overwhelm the cool synergies you're going for with raw power. Like, it's cute that I can get extra value when making rats with Drake Haven, but Pack Rat doesn't need the extra help. It will win by itself. I would recommend taking a hard look at the environment you're trying to create and narrow your power band around that point. There's some serious whiplash going on when you have Shipbreaker Kraken, which wasn't even that good in Theros limited sitting next to Elesh Norn and Sun Titan.
Yeah, I want to narrow my power band a bit. Splinter twin and Pack Rat are both on the top of my "you need to die" list right now. I just made a post about it over on my cube's forum if you'd be interested in looking it over really quickly if you have the chance...
I drafted your cube!
4-color Cycling Discard Stuff from CubeTutor.com
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P1 P1: Nimble Obstructionist (weak pack)
P1 P2: Torrential Gearhulk
P1 P3: Snapcaster Mage
P1 P4: Drake Haven, I went all in from there.
My deck ended up being a base U/G 4-color deck with some R discard payoffs. The green ramp spells seemed good with Tatyova, Benthic Druid and my Mage/Gearhulk package. Since my deck had a decent amount of ramp, some discard matters synergy, and a bunch of card draw/filtering engines, Borborygmos Enraged looked like a fun top end. Sigarda, Heron's Grace seems like a powerful way to reap value from stuff in my graveyard that I can't snap or torrential. This deck looks fun to play, although I'm not sure how good it is...
Your cube list looks super fun to play!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Onderzeeboot's Esper draft of The Trainmaster's Main Cube on 29/07/2018 from CubeTutor.com
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Missed a Pack Rat and an Orzhov Signet. Oops. Still looks pretty solid! I love Whip, but the effect means games do drag on forever every now and then. I cut it from my cube for that reason. Just so you know!
The power level of your cube was discussed before, but Tinker and heroic are not on the same power level. Like, not even close.
Responding to some of Peter's specific points and Onderzeeboot:
Yeah, some of my cards are too powerful in comparison to the rest of the cube.
I went through and just made a list of cards that are either incredibly good or incredibly weak, or just plain don't fit the cube.
In summary, these:
Like, I want to leave my Tinker and Sun Titan in the cube. They're both fun cards to play with, but I also need to be aware of how they can be very un-fun to play against. I think ST is probably fine as "the best white card." I think White is the weakest color in the cube, so it's probably fine if it gets a bit of a boost at the top-end. I think I'll want to watch it, but I don't think it's broken.
Tinker, on the other hand... Why did I add this in the first place? I mean, I know why. I thought it looked fun to play, and I wasn't taking power level that much into consideration when I added it. The thing is, Tinker decks are actually fun to play with, they just suck to play against. So maybe instead of repealing and replacing Tinker, I can power it down. I'm thinking I could replace Inkwell Leviathan, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, and Myr Battlesphere with some of these:
These vary a bit in power, and I don't think any of them are as good as Combustible Gearhulk, but they still can fill the role of finisher, aren't broken when they're played on turn 3, and reward the player for Tinkering. Mishra's Self-Replicator is probably the worst of the bunch, but it rewards the player for still slamming artifacts after it, Meteor Golem is like Vindicate on a stick, and Precursor Golem dies to every burn deck ever.
Memenarch is probably the best fit because he is an extremely powerful win-con, but he takes a bit to get going. You don't just win the game for playing it, but you have a higher chance of doing so. Plus, it's a good mana-sink for my super-ramp archetype.
Yeah, some of my cards are too powerful in comparison to the rest of the cube.
I went through and just made a list of cards that are either incredibly good or incredibly weak, or just plain don't fit the cube.
In summary, these:
Like, I want to leave my Tinker and Sun Titan in the cube. They're both fun cards to play with, but I also need to be aware of how they can be very un-fun to play against. I think ST is probably fine as "the best white card." I think White is the weakest color in the cube, so it's probably fine if it gets a bit of a boost at the top-end. I think I'll want to watch it, but I don't think it's broken.
Tinker, on the other hand... Why did I add this in the first place? I mean, I know why. I thought it looked fun to play, and I wasn't taking power level that much into consideration when I added it. The thing is, Tinker decks are actually fun to play with, they just suck to play against. So maybe instead of repealing and replacing Tinker, I can power it down. I'm thinking I could replace Inkwell Leviathan, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, and Myr Battlesphere with some of these:
These vary a bit in power, and I don't think any of them are as good as Combustible Gearhulk, but they still can fill the role of finisher, aren't broken when they're played on turn 3, and reward the player for Tinkering. Mishra's Self-Replicator is probably the worst of the bunch, but it rewards the player for still slamming artifacts after it, Meteor Golem is like Vindicate on a stick, and Precursor Golem dies to every burn deck ever.
Memenarch is probably the best fit because he is an extremely powerful win-con, but he takes a bit to get going. You don't just win the game for playing it, but you have a higher chance of doing so. Plus, it's a good mana-sink for my super-ramp archetype.
Doyouthinkhesaurus? from CubeTutor.com
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P1 P1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
P1 P2 Grand Warlord Radha
P1 P3 Wooded Foothills
I saw Crucible and a bunch of fetches were in the cube, so I tried to build that deck... and proceded to only draft 1 fetch. I love the dinosaurs. I could have drafted like 7 different decks in these colors with what I was getting passed, but I ended up in a fairly generic ramp deck. I added one wildfire as a back-up in case the ramp plan doesn't work, not a win con.
This deck looks so fun
.