General Auras: Do they all suck?
- Thread starter Jonas
- Start date
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It's funny to think that if a card came out that was just sorcery terminate for B1 I think us and the grim monolith people would agree it is sweet for cube
Laz
Developer
It strikes me as odd that this card doesn't already exist. Especially since there are already so many variants on 1B - Instant - Conditionally kill something.
What is instant speed worth in terms of mana cost? Maybe the Wizards math magicians have determined that unconditional removal costs 3, but sorcery speed only makes it 2.5?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It's an interesting question, but mostly WotC has found that no matter how shitty the removal is, people will play it. People played ember shot in draft don't cha know.
Given the current success of hero's demise, It wouldn't surprise me to see a standard format where the control decks play Dark Banishing.
RE: Sorcery, they usually don't because constructed aggro decks are usually so focused that if control decks have to play all sorcery, they end up dying. Thankfully cube doesn't put such constraints on people.
Given the current success of hero's demise, It wouldn't surprise me to see a standard format where the control decks play Dark Banishing.
RE: Sorcery, they usually don't because constructed aggro decks are usually so focused that if control decks have to play all sorcery, they end up dying. Thankfully cube doesn't put such constraints on people.
Laz
Developer
Maybe with the emphasis on auras in the Theros block we will be treated to a card like this designed for that limited environment. Though on the topic of Auras, maybe there is a Sorcery speed removal spell already, in the form of a super Dead Weight or something... Quick! To the gatherer-mobile!
Edit: Came away from that quite disappointed, although both Glistening Oil and Yoke of the Damned are quite cool...
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I have fond memories of using Screams from Within against Elves in Extended.
Hero's Demise when you mean Hero's Downfall is the new Tendrils of Agony for Tendrils of Corruption.
Angelic Destiny is very, very good. Most people have an inkling of how strong Elephant Guide is but Moldervine Cloak and Boar Umbra are both excellent as well in my experience. You probably don't want all of them unless you're supporting an Auras theme, but it's one of those slots that you could rotate around those three cards every so often for variety.
Hero's Demise when you mean Hero's Downfall is the new Tendrils of Agony for Tendrils of Corruption.
Angelic Destiny is very, very good. Most people have an inkling of how strong Elephant Guide is but Moldervine Cloak and Boar Umbra are both excellent as well in my experience. You probably don't want all of them unless you're supporting an Auras theme, but it's one of those slots that you could rotate around those three cards every so often for variety.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Nearly a year on, I've started thinking about Auras again as a way to make aggro (well, white, who am I kidding) more interesting.
Stuff to put Auras on:
Heroic: Akroan Crusader, Favored Hoplite, Satyr Hoplite, Tormented Hero, Akroan Crusader, Battlewise Hoplite, Bloodcrazed Hoplite, Hero of Iroas, Meletis Astronomer, Phalanx Leader, Vanguard of Brimaz, Agent of the Fates, Anax and Cymede, Fabled Hero, Tethmos High Priest
Hexproof: Slippery Bogle, Invisible Stalker/Silhana Ledgewalker (ew), Geist of Saint Traft (EW), Troll Ascetic
Double Strike: Fencing Ace, Viashino Slaughtermaster, Silverblade Paladin, Fabled Hero, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Rafiq of the Many
Aura-checking: Kor Spiritdancer, Aura Gnarlid, Flaring Flame-Kin
Auras:
Bestow: Boon Satyr, Eidolon of Countless Battles, Gnarled Scarhide, Herald of Torment, Hopeful Eidolon, Mogis's Warhound, Nighthowler, Spiteful Returned
Others: Ethereal Armor, Bonds of Faith, Flickerform, Hyena/Spider/Eel/Boar/Bear Umbra, Spirit Mantle, Empyrial Armor, Griffin/Elephant Guide, Moldervine Cloak, Rancor, Angelic Destiny, Spectral Flight, Vow cycle (Vow of Duty), Dragon Mantle, Armadillo Cloak, Gift of Orzhova, Riot Spikes
I like Auras/Heroic/Voltron/whatever because:
- Your creatures don't get outclassed by those in midrange decks very quickly. See Standard, where Soldier of the Pantheon and friends can't deal with Courser/Siege Rhino while Favored Hoplite doesn't give a fuck
- Your sequencing decisions become a lot more important. Instead of going Goblin Guide-Ash Zealot-please don't have anything-ok good you're dead, you have to think about how to bait removal, whether to wait until you can protect your creature, and so on;
- and when you don't have to worry about those things, you get the primitive Timmy feeling of attacking with a 10/10 with five keywords instead of the rather mundane 'nut draws' you get with typical aggro
Stuff to put Auras on:
Heroic: Akroan Crusader, Favored Hoplite, Satyr Hoplite, Tormented Hero, Akroan Crusader, Battlewise Hoplite, Bloodcrazed Hoplite, Hero of Iroas, Meletis Astronomer, Phalanx Leader, Vanguard of Brimaz, Agent of the Fates, Anax and Cymede, Fabled Hero, Tethmos High Priest
Hexproof: Slippery Bogle, Invisible Stalker/Silhana Ledgewalker (ew), Geist of Saint Traft (EW), Troll Ascetic
Double Strike: Fencing Ace, Viashino Slaughtermaster, Silverblade Paladin, Fabled Hero, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Rafiq of the Many
Aura-checking: Kor Spiritdancer, Aura Gnarlid, Flaring Flame-Kin
Auras:
Bestow: Boon Satyr, Eidolon of Countless Battles, Gnarled Scarhide, Herald of Torment, Hopeful Eidolon, Mogis's Warhound, Nighthowler, Spiteful Returned
Others: Ethereal Armor, Bonds of Faith, Flickerform, Hyena/Spider/Eel/Boar/Bear Umbra, Spirit Mantle, Empyrial Armor, Griffin/Elephant Guide, Moldervine Cloak, Rancor, Angelic Destiny, Spectral Flight, Vow cycle (Vow of Duty), Dragon Mantle, Armadillo Cloak, Gift of Orzhova, Riot Spikes
I like Auras/Heroic/Voltron/whatever because:
- Your creatures don't get outclassed by those in midrange decks very quickly. See Standard, where Soldier of the Pantheon and friends can't deal with Courser/Siege Rhino while Favored Hoplite doesn't give a fuck
- Your sequencing decisions become a lot more important. Instead of going Goblin Guide-Ash Zealot-please don't have anything-ok good you're dead, you have to think about how to bait removal, whether to wait until you can protect your creature, and so on;
- and when you don't have to worry about those things, you get the primitive Timmy feeling of attacking with a 10/10 with five keywords instead of the rather mundane 'nut draws' you get with typical aggro
I'm not convinced that Boar Umbra can co-exist in the same list as Lightning Bolt, but aside from that, I like the idea of auras, heroic, and going tall as a Selesnya or Bant theme in lower powered environments. It's a little unfortunate that most of the heroic creatures - other than Fabled Hero - are narrow and therefore poison principle-y, but double strike does a great heroic impression while still being viable in Glorious Anthem-type, going wide decks.
Hexproof in concert with all this is really gross, though. Do you hate your playerbase that much?
Hexproof in concert with all this is really gross, though. Do you hate your playerbase that much?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I found Geist and Stalker completely unnecessary for the theme to work. Boggle and Troll are fine as those cards pretty much suck without auras.
As time went on I found myself using fewer and fewer cards that actually say heroic on them because they are kinda narrow. I probably could/should include a couple more, but its working fine without them so whatever. On the other hand, I kept adding (including using the sharpy on a few because of the lack of selection) bestow creatures, as they both support the theme and pretty broad cards.
As time went on I found myself using fewer and fewer cards that actually say heroic on them because they are kinda narrow. I probably could/should include a couple more, but its working fine without them so whatever. On the other hand, I kept adding (including using the sharpy on a few because of the lack of selection) bestow creatures, as they both support the theme and pretty broad cards.
fetters is a sick 4 mana vindicate but like I think they mostly smell like piss unless you have permanent counting themes or enchantment stuff going on. Auras need to be really good to feel safe and by then people have already started thinking of them as unhealthily good.
Confiscate can be sick if you're running a slow, walker heavy cube.
Confiscate can be sick if you're running a slow, walker heavy cube.
I actually run Unstable Mutation at the moment. The goal was to give Blue some options for early damage, especially with 1 drop flyers. I'm keeping an eye on it, but it has seen at least marginal play so far.
I make a lot of good custom auras if it helps! Most of them tend to like neg a creature or permanent though, but some do things like give you mana sinks!
I really feel like +positive auras have a Black and White problem where they need to be super good to bear the weight of the risk or they seem lame because of something inherent in their formula. Now changing the fundamental situation is probably not amazing (as I've seen in larger pauper or peasant cubes) where you let +positive auras be decent because the removal efficiency/relevancy is shit, no that often just reminds me of losing to protection on a knight with a bonesplitter on it. The basic dynamic is kinda fucked up and requires good cards and answers that warrant them.
Now we are basically not even talking about -negative auras right now because we just consider them awkward sorceries that need to prove their worth and are becoming increasingly more or less relevant depending on the way you build your cube. This is more a question of threats they are answering and synergies they are enabling than their actual efficiency, but for gods sake make a baseline, I have played too many 3 mana pacifism in cube against above the curve 1-2 cost creatures.
-negative auras also kinda stink in that they die when you wrath them. It's annoying how much better icy manipulater is than say oring when you know your deck needs to wrath at least once per game to win (I feel like decks like that are a very healthy part of cube lol, they enable everyone else to be super consistent)
I really feel like +positive auras have a Black and White problem where they need to be super good to bear the weight of the risk or they seem lame because of something inherent in their formula. Now changing the fundamental situation is probably not amazing (as I've seen in larger pauper or peasant cubes) where you let +positive auras be decent because the removal efficiency/relevancy is shit, no that often just reminds me of losing to protection on a knight with a bonesplitter on it. The basic dynamic is kinda fucked up and requires good cards and answers that warrant them.
Now we are basically not even talking about -negative auras right now because we just consider them awkward sorceries that need to prove their worth and are becoming increasingly more or less relevant depending on the way you build your cube. This is more a question of threats they are answering and synergies they are enabling than their actual efficiency, but for gods sake make a baseline, I have played too many 3 mana pacifism in cube against above the curve 1-2 cost creatures.
-negative auras also kinda stink in that they die when you wrath them. It's annoying how much better icy manipulater is than say oring when you know your deck needs to wrath at least once per game to win (I feel like decks like that are a very healthy part of cube lol, they enable everyone else to be super consistent)
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Notice how we also hate most cards with echo, and all equipment beyond a certain cost basically has echo?
Who really has the 6 mana to play and equip sword of vengence and actually has the creatures to go along with it?
Who really has the 6 mana to play and equip sword of vengence and actually has the creatures to go along with it?