Two thumbs up for Coiling Oracle. I'm never unhappy casting that on T2.
Card/Deck Black Sheep
- Thread starter CML
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'm never unhappy either, the question mostly is, is it better and more interesting than the other Simic options? Space is limited in most cubes
Other than Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Is there anything that really stands out in Simic?
What I like about oracle is that you will almost always run it if you are in the colors. It won't be the center piece of your deck, but it's a great T2 play in virtually every Simic deck. That to me makes it a good option for the guild.
If there are build around cards that will pull guys into the color, awesome. But I'm not sure Simic really has a lot of those. So universally good cards that the color combination will play seem like a good alternative to me. It's why I like and run so many of the charms and commands.
What I like about oracle is that you will almost always run it if you are in the colors. It won't be the center piece of your deck, but it's a great T2 play in virtually every Simic deck. That to me makes it a good option for the guild.
If there are build around cards that will pull guys into the color, awesome. But I'm not sure Simic really has a lot of those. So universally good cards that the color combination will play seem like a good alternative to me. It's why I like and run so many of the charms and commands.
I love Kiora, the Crashing Wave. I've seen her put in work in various games and she's a good card for anyone that ends up going Simic. My ideal Simic decks are more tempo-based, and Kiora +1 on a lone threat as a follow up on a T3 Man-O'-War is pretty solid.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
There is also
Speaking of in a roundabout way, I'm surprised I don't see more
In fetchland heavy formats.
Speaking of
in a roundabout way, I'm surprised I don't see moreIn fetchland heavy formats.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Just like the aether mutation you just posted, which is why both cards tend to be underplayed.
Thankfully both cards have more text, which is why they are good candidates for a thread titled "black sheep."
Thankfully both cards have more text, which is why they are good candidates for a thread titled "black sheep."
Observant Alseid - but modified to 1W casting cost, 3W bestow. I stole this from someone (FSR?) and I've carried it through several iterations of my cube. I need to do a real proxy though, my sharpie-job looks like ass.
Word of Undoing - Unsummon with upside, especially if you run a lot of the Arrest variants, like...Vow of Duty
Falkenrath Noble - Not sure it's good enough, but I like having a 3rd Blood Artist effect and don't really want to run a 3rd Blood Artist.
Tombstalker - Only a recent addition to my cube, but I've really liked it. I know it's been cut from most cubes over the last couple years, but I like giving black a big flyer that can come down early and is vulnerable to blue tempo decks.
Goblin Razerunners - An "evasive" way for Red to push through the last points of damage reliably while still giving the opponent some play.
Soul Manipulation - I tend to keep my unconditional counterspells in the 3 mana range, so I like the side on the upside here.
Double Cleave - Usually pretty brutal on an unblocked heroic creature.
Jinxed Idol - Because Gravecrawler
I also have the following in my "weirdly almost playable" list. I've kept them in my on-deck binder forever but never quite pulled the trigger:
Test of Faith
Excise
Standard Bearer
Embolden - Interesting heroic enabler...target any number of creatures...twice?
Phantom Nomad
Brine Shaman
Word of Undoing - Unsummon with upside, especially if you run a lot of the Arrest variants, like...Vow of Duty
Falkenrath Noble - Not sure it's good enough, but I like having a 3rd Blood Artist effect and don't really want to run a 3rd Blood Artist.
Tombstalker - Only a recent addition to my cube, but I've really liked it. I know it's been cut from most cubes over the last couple years, but I like giving black a big flyer that can come down early and is vulnerable to blue tempo decks.
Goblin Razerunners - An "evasive" way for Red to push through the last points of damage reliably while still giving the opponent some play.
Soul Manipulation - I tend to keep my unconditional counterspells in the 3 mana range, so I like the side on the upside here.
Double Cleave - Usually pretty brutal on an unblocked heroic creature.
Jinxed Idol - Because Gravecrawler
I also have the following in my "weirdly almost playable" list. I've kept them in my on-deck binder forever but never quite pulled the trigger:
Test of Faith
Excise
Standard Bearer
Embolden - Interesting heroic enabler...target any number of creatures...twice?
Phantom Nomad
Brine Shaman
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It may very well be that I just love Simic a lot. And once again, I do love casting a Coiling Oracle, but it's just a souped up Elvish Visionary with a difficult casting cost at the end of the line.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I actually like phantom nomad, he's kinda like a 2/2 persist but with lots of random upside with proliferate, anything that grants toughness, stuff like that.
Snakeform is legit. I ran that for a long time.
Has anyone gotten time with Bounding Krasis? Looks good actually. Like a Wolfir Avenger I might actually play.
Has anyone gotten time with Bounding Krasis? Looks good actually. Like a Wolfir Avenger I might actually play.
ummm but aether mutation isn't really 5cc removal. Is cloudskate 5cc removal to you? It isn't to old uncle lucas.
woah wait I'm like stunned you tried to get me on that one, the forest thing is basically trinket text in most games of magical cards you'll be playing I reckon. You guys almost had me there for a minute!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I don't come to this forum for flamewars. Please don't give ridiculous responses.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I ran submerge for a long time, the card is amazingly strong. I maindecked it basically 100% of the time I drafted it, although obviously it got sideboarded out pretty frequently. The problem is getting hit with it just feels ultra shitty for no real rhyme or reason. "I guess I'm an asshole for thinking it was ok to play green?"
If you are power maxing and encourage 3+ color decks, you absolutely need to play this card. It is one of the best removal spell you can run.
If you are power maxing and encourage 3+ color decks, you absolutely need to play this card. It is one of the best removal spell you can run.
Agree. Lucas, simmer down, man.
This is my issue with it. I can see more justifications for allowing a few rogue protection creatures into the cube in a high-powered environment, which just ask for some strategizing to deal with (monocolour decks are rare in Cube and if you're mono-red and can't jump over a Master of Waves you were asking for it imho), than tolerating a straight-up hoser that goes free just because your opponent dared to play a Forest. At least Aether Mutation is a peasant-level flex card that can also bounce a value dude to be replayed and spits out tokens in the process. Personally I'm more tempted by Snakeform for removal-with-upside in Simic but my section is too packed for any of the above.
Also I've said this before but everyone should be running
It's really cool and cmon that name is pretty wicked, just say it
SAY IT OUT LOUD, FOR REAL. IT'S A COOL NAME
It's really cool and cmon that name is pretty wicked, just say it
SAY IT OUT LOUD, FOR REAL. IT'S A COOL NAME
Well, if your opponents are running 3 colors on average, 60% of your opponents should be running forests. Hell, I sometimes fetch up Forests in non-green decks, because of the flexibility it adds for Fetchland targets. It will sometimes be trinket text, sometimes not, but then again, we do have sideboards.
Just stuff Snakeform into your Blue or Green section. Hybrids shouldn't take up gold slots, they're more castable than monocolored cards. Actually, I'd sooner put Snakeform into the artifact section than a gold section.
CML
Contributor
color hosers are boring and lame
i dont think ghastly demise is particularly cubable, runs into the whole "costs 1 mana on turn 5" issue you see with stubborn denial. it's a great constructed design for pauper and legacy (though archaic). i would just never want it in my cube deck over doom blade or disfigure or, while we're at it, murderous cut
i dont think ghastly demise is particularly cubable, runs into the whole "costs 1 mana on turn 5" issue you see with stubborn denial. it's a great constructed design for pauper and legacy (though archaic). i would just never want it in my cube deck over doom blade or disfigure or, while we're at it, murderous cut
Demise scales very easily with the game and asks a lot less of you than Denial, as it requires literally no cards on-board and can only really be impeded by instant-speed 'yard hate, which is significantly less common in most cubes than counterspells are, making that particular answer much easier to anticipate and work around. As I've said in previous posts it only really isn't great if your cube allows a lot of cheaty bullshit, but if your games are mostly fair-ish, it's really a fantastic tempo play and never seems to have an issue with being "off". I like it the best out of all black 1cmc removal personally and would pick it over doom blade all day in any cube that is lite on cheaty bullshit.
Yeah I think I was mainly pissed with the sorta gall and the fact that ahadabans guy liked it. I'll refrain from stating the obvious more often here and then maybe I will find my intelligence is insulted less.
Honestly I wasn't trying to flame with that last one so much as going for an "oh you guys, always trying to get on my nerves" angle.
I might be inclined to take this seriously if you had thought anything about the ceiling and floor of that card in your analysis. I'm not trying to be sassy or anything here, I just think we are defending this card as more of a thought experiment than anything useful, especially given that we have so many citp creatures these days. Last deck I drafted I splashed green, as you say. I saw a forest roughly every other game and the two green card I played were thragtusk and reclaimation sage. The fetchland argument is cute but I sorta needed my fetchlands to find my green sources in the first place.
So anyway, my leaders here are probably mystic snake and aether mutation (combo omg) but I like trygon and new krasis too, and I feel like enough people love UG ramp that it's not fair I'm not rewarding them.