Brad Loves Eldrazi

Brad

Brad

As I've lowered my power level quite a bit, I keep seeing cards that are interesting at even lower power levels.

That said, I'm having a problem understanding aggro.

I've played my own cubes, retail draft, and constructed. My cubes and constructed have always done the curve out thing where you have a bunch of 2 power one drops that overwhelm your opponent. Retail usually does something similar, but with worse cards in the slots. At least the aggro decks I've gone for in retail have, but maybe that's because it's what I'm familiar with.

If I nerf these "2 power 1 drop" decks, how can I make sure the format has some pressure to it and doesn't devolve into "biggest deck wins"?

@ravnic low power god
@StrionicAdventurer just posted they have a peasant cube
 
ravnic

ravnic

Just play 1- and 2-drops that are worse. I'm a big fan of 1/1 fliers for one with some upside, but you can also run some less obnoxious Savannah Lions. Similar for twos, and even just 2/2 bears for two with upsides that don't even scream aggro can make for a good aggro deck when 1) the density is high enough and 2) you have some strong support cards like anthem effects etc. Supporting aggro is really much easier at lower power levels because you can play cheap creatures that are less all-in aggressive.

For example:


These are all cards that support aggro strategies because they are cheap and fulfil a minimum of stats needed. BUT they also support, ramp, tokens, spells matter or are (noncreature) removal. This is one of the biggest upsides of lower power levels and nobody talks about it.
 
gaytransmulldrifter

gaytransmulldrifter

There is also the wonderful world of 3-power 2-drops



I like these types of cards because they're a bit more flexible than your average Savannah Lions variant and can often do perfectly well in a midrange deck, while still allowing aggro decks to apply strong pressure.
 
Brad

Brad

Basically how retail does it? Play curve out aggro with worse dudes?

I also made some moves towards guaranteed damage like Blood Artist and Firebrand Archer. Simply having blockers won't make you safe.

I'm gonna look into more synergistic aggro like UR spells burn, WB sac, GW or GU +1/+1, WU flyers, RW equip or go wide. Maybe the most synergistic deck should win?

ROE draft was unique in that it didn't have a traditional aggro deck at all. It had a leveler deck based off Venerated Teacher and a Kiln Fiend deck. Greedy green ramp was the primary strategy. People speak highly of the format, but I'm skeptical that making greed piles the best deck actually holds up. What do you guys think? I could also shift my pie towards green a bit.

Hell, ROE was so anti-traditional-aggro that defenders was a tier 3 strategy.
 
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StrionicAdventurer

StrionicAdventurer

I am much less strategic and intentional with my cube designs, since they only get drafted a couple times a year. That having been said: I think "3-power 2-drops" is the way. I personally like it when games have room to breathe, and even if I had a dead-ahead aggro option in my cube, none of my players would go for it. Red-green stompy is more popular.
 
Brad

Brad

Madness notes



Heir of Falkenrath would be 'custom' where it "becomes" the back face and isn't a DFC, but is effectively the same card.



Vampires?

Vampires as a theme is probably too much, but maybe a few.

I really like how Blood and other draw/discard effects can smooth a hand out. Probably going to play a lot of this, but wanted to put it here because it's a lot to make room for. List includes stuff that's a bit too strong and a bit too weak so that I wouldn't eliminate options too soon.

Maybe I should add 2/2 Zombies as a token... Blood means I'd have an odd number of tokens unless I cut Servos. Only even numbers make sense with DFC tokens.

I'll sort through this mess tomorrow.
 
Brad

Brad

Maybe
?

It isn't too hard to focus removal on exiling. Useful to do in a lot of ways.



I'm looking more at BFZ's themes, if you couldn't tell. I think I went too far on my interest in ROE. ROE was unique and has never been replicated by WotC. I'm sure there's a reason for that, whether it be that the components were a stroke of luck or that they think modern draft formats are better.

One thing that's been bothering me is "historic" cards. Quite a few work well with the Legendary aspect of the Eldrazi, but they feel like they'll synergize more often with a random artifact, a deck that isn't particularly supported.

Something I'm experimenting with right now is viewing historic as a spectrum. On one end, we have UBR artifacts. On the other, RWG legends. (B and R may switch order and Sagas can sprinkle throughout.) The UBR artifacts tie in to some of the BFZ colorless-matters Eldrazi while the RWG legends tie in to the Titans.

The artifact theme would be more focused on colorless stuff than on artifacts. Thirst for Knowledge is cool support, but Myr Enforcer feels too artifact-y. I want it synergistic without going full-on-Mirrodin.

I'm not sure if there's enough support or if it's a good idea, but that's what I'm mentally messing with at the moment.
 
Nanonox

Nanonox

Brad said:
Something I'm experimenting with right now is viewing historic as a spectrum. On one end, we have UBR artifacts. On the other, RWG legends. (B and R may switch order and Sagas can sprinkle throughout.)
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I was experimenting with a cube that was Dragons vs Phyrexians vs Legends. Your historic idea would have been a boon as it would have allowed me to use artifacts and sagas to diversify the archetypes. You could have something similar where it's Dragons (or whatever) vs Eldrazis with the historic and tribal themes tying everything together.

Brad said:
This is garbage, right? Enabling it is a bit tricky and the decent payoffs are very few.
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I think it is one or two cards excepted.
 
Brad

Brad

Nanonox said:
I was experimenting with a cube that was Dragons vs Phyrexians vs Legends. Your historic idea would have been a boon as it would have allowed me to use artifacts and sagas to diversify the archetypes. You could have something similar where it's Dragons (or whatever) vs Eldrazis with the historic and tribal themes tying everything together.
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I've had ideas of "vs" cubes before, but I always find that it's awkward when the "Phyrexians" deck runs Glorybringer or some other card that it's "against." I think it works best with a skewed color pie to attempt to prevent that sort of thing, but you'd still end up with outlier scenarios where "enemies" are in the same deck.

I think an emphasis on card types (UR spells vs GW creatures and they share B or something) could work because a deck wouldn't be all spells and the GW deck wouldn't want a Guttersnipe, probably.

"Vs" always feels like it runs into something clunky, that's why I'd like to try having them share this spectrum. The spectrum idea can tie the format together and doesn't make the GU deck (opposite spectrum ends) necessarily clash with the theme.

I'm still not sure enough cards support this idea in singleton.

Nanonox said:
I think it is one or two cards excepted.
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I think I'll try a few. Exiling removal is good. I wish Processor Assault dealt 6 or even 7, considering the extra hoops to jump through. Sure, Roast is limited, but c'mon.



EDIT: Like half of these historic cards are random British people.
 
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Brad

Brad

I'll try to keep this short.

The result of a lot of tinkering, here's a low power list that needs about 10% cuts:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/e402ac7e-375a-4fde-92a4-3b92f716fc2f

I think the list is pretty good. Has some aggressive decks that probably allow titans to breathe. Overall, decently nerfed.

BUT

I've found that I don't really like the list that much... I think that my enjoyment of cube is from having a powerful environment that simulates constructed without having to deal with the nonsense that comes with constructed. This list isn't quite up to a power level I think I would enjoy as much.

SO

I can think of three options.
1. Suck it up and play some mid cards that I don't really like.
2. I can try to force the higher power version to work. It's not like it hasn't been working so far, but it's definitely less flexible for supporting the titans.
3. I can make the high power version work with the addition of custom cards. This is always a slippery slope to me. Why not redesign nearly every card to be a little bit more format specific?
 
Brad

Brad

Can we play mono decks? @ravnic have any advice? Pretty sure you run some MMM cards and whatnot.

There's green doublers as well, but green doesn't need us focusing on it right now.
 
ravnic

ravnic

Brad said:
BUT

I've found that I don't really like the list that much... I think that my enjoyment of cube is from having a powerful environment that simulates constructed without having to deal with the nonsense that comes with constructed. This list isn't quite up to a power level I think I would enjoy as much.
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Have you played it?

Brad said:
Can we play mono decks?
Click to expand...

Sure. I assume you've read my thread on supporting mono color? It's less about the MMM cards and more about having a lot of colorless and/or hybrids and stuff.
 
Brad

Brad

ravnic said:
Have you played it?
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Na, but I hate looking at the card choices when I do a draft simulation. They don't excite me at all. I'm fairly confident it would play fine at worst.
ravnic said:
Sure. I assume you've read my thread on supporting mono color? It's less about the MMM cards and more about having a lot of colorless and/or hybrids and stuff.
Click to expand...
I have now. Basically what I suspected and I have a higher colorless count due to the Eldrazi.
 
ravnic

ravnic

Brad said:
Na, but I hate looking at the card choices when I do a draft simulation. They don't excite me at all. I'm fairly confident it would play fine at worst.
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They might start to excite you after you got used to the power level, which I assume will take like a draft or two.
 
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