Brad Loves Eldrazi

[Brad]

As I've lowered my power level quite a bit, I keep seeing cards that are interesting at even lower power levels.

That said, I'm having a problem understanding aggro.

I've played my own cubes, retail draft, and constructed. My cubes and constructed have always done the curve out thing where you have a bunch of 2 power one drops that overwhelm your opponent. Retail usually does something similar, but with worse cards in the slots. At least the aggro decks I've gone for in retail have, but maybe that's because it's what I'm familiar with.

If I nerf these "2 power 1 drop" decks, how can I make sure the format has some pressure to it and doesn't devolve into "biggest deck wins"?

@ravnic low power god
@StrionicAdventurer just posted they have a peasant cube

 

[ravnic]

Just play 1- and 2-drops that are worse. I'm a big fan of 1/1 fliers for one with some upside, but you can also run some less obnoxious Savannah Lions. Similar for twos, and even just 2/2 bears for two with upsides that don't even scream aggro can make for a good aggro deck when 1) the density is high enough and 2) you have some strong support cards like anthem effects etc. Supporting aggro is really much easier at lower power levels because you can play cheap creatures that are less all-in aggressive.

For example:


These are all cards that support aggro strategies because they are cheap and fulfil a minimum of stats needed. BUT they also support, ramp, tokens, spells matter or are (noncreature) removal. This is one of the biggest upsides of lower power levels and nobody talks about it.

 

[gaytransmulldrifter]

There is also the wonderful world of 3-power 2-drops



I like these types of cards because they're a bit more flexible than your average Savannah Lions variant and can often do perfectly well in a midrange deck, while still allowing aggro decks to apply strong pressure.

 

[Brad]

Basically how retail does it? Play curve out aggro with worse dudes?

I also made some moves towards guaranteed damage like Blood Artist and Firebrand Archer. Simply having blockers won't make you safe.

I'm gonna look into more synergistic aggro like UR spells burn, WB sac, GW or GU +1/+1, WU flyers, RW equip or go wide. Maybe the most synergistic deck should win?

ROE draft was unique in that it didn't have a traditional aggro deck at all. It had a leveler deck based off Venerated Teacher and a Kiln Fiend deck. Greedy green ramp was the primary strategy. People speak highly of the format, but I'm skeptical that making greed piles the best deck actually holds up. What do you guys think? I could also shift my pie towards green a bit.

Hell, ROE was so anti-traditional-aggro that defenders was a tier 3 strategy.

 

[StrionicAdventurer]

I am much less strategic and intentional with my cube designs, since they only get drafted a couple times a year. That having been said: I think "3-power 2-drops" is the way. I personally like it when games have room to breathe, and even if I had a dead-ahead aggro option in my cube, none of my players would go for it. Red-green stompy is more popular.

 

[Brad]

Madness notes



Heir of Falkenrath would be 'custom' where it "becomes" the back face and isn't a DFC, but is effectively the same card.



Vampires?

Vampires as a theme is probably too much, but maybe a few.

I really like how Blood and other draw/discard effects can smooth a hand out. Probably going to play a lot of this, but wanted to put it here because it's a lot to make room for. List includes stuff that's a bit too strong and a bit too weak so that I wouldn't eliminate options too soon.

Maybe I should add 2/2 Zombies as a token... Blood means I'd have an odd number of tokens unless I cut Servos. Only even numbers make sense with DFC tokens.

I'll sort through this mess tomorrow.

 

[Brad]

This is garbage, right? Enabling it is a bit tricky and the decent payoffs are very few.

 

[Brad]

Maybe
?

It isn't too hard to focus removal on exiling. Useful to do in a lot of ways.



I'm looking more at BFZ's themes, if you couldn't tell. I think I went too far on my interest in ROE. ROE was unique and has never been replicated by WotC. I'm sure there's a reason for that, whether it be that the components were a stroke of luck or that they think modern draft formats are better.

One thing that's been bothering me is "historic" cards. Quite a few work well with the Legendary aspect of the Eldrazi, but they feel like they'll synergize more often with a random artifact, a deck that isn't particularly supported.

Something I'm experimenting with right now is viewing historic as a spectrum. On one end, we have UBR artifacts. On the other, RWG legends. (B and R may switch order and Sagas can sprinkle throughout.) The UBR artifacts tie in to some of the BFZ colorless-matters Eldrazi while the RWG legends tie in to the Titans.

The artifact theme would be more focused on colorless stuff than on artifacts. Thirst for Knowledge is cool support, but Myr Enforcer feels too artifact-y. I want it synergistic without going full-on-Mirrodin.

I'm not sure if there's enough support or if it's a good idea, but that's what I'm mentally messing with at the moment.

 

[Nanonox]

Something I'm experimenting with right now is viewing historic as a spectrum. On one end, we have UBR artifacts. On the other, RWG legends. (B and R may switch order and Sagas can sprinkle throughout.)

I was experimenting with a cube that was Dragons vs Phyrexians vs Legends. Your historic idea would have been a boon as it would have allowed me to use artifacts and sagas to diversify the archetypes. You could have something similar where it's Dragons (or whatever) vs Eldrazis with the historic and tribal themes tying everything together.

This is garbage, right? Enabling it is a bit tricky and the decent payoffs are very few.

I think it is one or two cards excepted.

 

[Brad]

I was experimenting with a cube that was Dragons vs Phyrexians vs Legends. Your historic idea would have been a boon as it would have allowed me to use artifacts and sagas to diversify the archetypes. You could have something similar where it's Dragons (or whatever) vs Eldrazis with the historic and tribal themes tying everything together.

I've had ideas of "vs" cubes before, but I always find that it's awkward when the "Phyrexians" deck runs Glorybringer or some other card that it's "against." I think it works best with a skewed color pie to attempt to prevent that sort of thing, but you'd still end up with outlier scenarios where "enemies" are in the same deck.

I think an emphasis on card types (UR spells vs GW creatures and they share B or something) could work because a deck wouldn't be all spells and the GW deck wouldn't want a Guttersnipe, probably.

"Vs" always feels like it runs into something clunky, that's why I'd like to try having them share this spectrum. The spectrum idea can tie the format together and doesn't make the GU deck (opposite spectrum ends) necessarily clash with the theme.

I'm still not sure enough cards support this idea in singleton.

I think it is one or two cards excepted.

I think I'll try a few. Exiling removal is good. I wish Processor Assault dealt 6 or even 7, considering the extra hoops to jump through. Sure, Roast is limited, but c'mon.



EDIT: Like half of these historic cards are random British people.

 

[Brad]

Historic list
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/7dcfcd0e-8d81-402a-8f19-12a40f1f383d?page=22&scale=large

I don't think there's enough colorless support or legendary support to make this attempt worth it. I'm drafting it now (granted, it could take 10% cuts) and I don't feel the intended theme at all lmao. Maybe after MH4.

 

[Brad]

I'll try to keep this short.

The result of a lot of tinkering, here's a low power list that needs about 10% cuts:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/e402ac7e-375a-4fde-92a4-3b92f716fc2f

I think the list is pretty good. Has some aggressive decks that probably allow titans to breathe. Overall, decently nerfed.

BUT

I've found that I don't really like the list that much... I think that my enjoyment of cube is from having a powerful environment that simulates constructed without having to deal with the nonsense that comes with constructed. This list isn't quite up to a power level I think I would enjoy as much.

SO

I can think of three options.
1. Suck it up and play some mid cards that I don't really like.
2. I can try to force the higher power version to work. It's not like it hasn't been working so far, but it's definitely less flexible for supporting the titans.
3. I can make the high power version work with the addition of custom cards. This is always a slippery slope to me. Why not redesign nearly every card to be a little bit more format specific?

 

[Brad]

Can we play mono decks? @ravnic have any advice? Pretty sure you run some MMM cards and whatnot.

There's green doublers as well, but green doesn't need us focusing on it right now.

 

[ravnic]

BUT

I've found that I don't really like the list that much... I think that my enjoyment of cube is from having a powerful environment that simulates constructed without having to deal with the nonsense that comes with constructed. This list isn't quite up to a power level I think I would enjoy as much.

Have you played it?

Can we play mono decks?

Sure. I assume you've read my thread on supporting mono color? It's less about the MMM cards and more about having a lot of colorless and/or hybrids and stuff.

 

[Brad]

Have you played it?

Na, but I hate looking at the card choices when I do a draft simulation. They don't excite me at all. I'm fairly confident it would play fine at worst.

Sure. I assume you've read my thread on supporting mono color? It's less about the MMM cards and more about having a lot of colorless and/or hybrids and stuff.

I have now. Basically what I suspected and I have a higher colorless count due to the Eldrazi.

 

[ravnic]

Na, but I hate looking at the card choices when I do a draft simulation. They don't excite me at all. I'm fairly confident it would play fine at worst.

They might start to excite you after you got used to the power level, which I assume will take like a draft or two.

 

[alvoi]

They might start to excite you after you got used to the power level, which I assume will take like a draft or two.

It is a bit like Retail Draft, you would never get excited by a Goldvein Pick in Vintage Cube, but in KHM draft is amazing (and I am very looking forward to draft it again in Foundations)

 

[Seeker]

EDIT: Like half of these historic cards are random British people.

just like real life history textbooks am I right

no really though I was just gonna say that your madness supporter list didn't have any lands and Geier Reach Sanitarium, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, and Spymaster's Vault all exist, albeit at wildly varying power levels

 

[Brad]

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/41814c27-5170-4a44-8f3d-399b409807b4

Need cuts to ~500 cards.

Shit's been through a ton of variations, but I'm liking this.

Strong early cards and TONS of ramp. Most of the green cards have something to do with mana, plus there's ramp from other colors and colorless where available.

Archetypes are less defined than they were before, but each two color pair will lead you in certain directions. Looking at the two color cards gives a decent idea what the pair might do.

Mana base is now 10 pains, 10 filters, 10 landscapes, and 20 Prismatic Vistas. All colorless. Plus a few utility lands.

 

[Brad]

We only had 4 players, so we played sealed (zzz) with the old list on Sunday. Pools of 100 cards.

My pool had a bunch of one drops, Scalding Tarn, Blood Crypt, and Mardu Triome. I looked at Mardu aggro, but I was able to cut white and run 16 lands with one card I wasn't too happy with in the aggro deck, Circuit Mender. Have a 2/3 for 3 in my aggressive deck seems better than a 17th land or a 3rd color.

I then asked the other three players if anyone was playing an Eldrazi deck. Everyone said no, so I made a second deck while playing my first match. Ended up being GWu Eldrazi with some ramp, Emrakul2, Ulamog2, a 5 mana wrath, and Farewell.

Match 1
My BR aggro 2-0 GB Midrange
I opened up both games with 1 drop into 2 drop and backed it up with removal. Disfiguring their Tarmogoyf into a 0/1 after it blocked was nice. Cast Down on their Perennial Behemoth was pretty backbreaking. Managed to kill them just before they turned the corner both games.

My GWu Eldrazi 1-0 GB Midrange
Same opponent. I don't really remember this game. I know I landed an Emrakul, he took his draw step after my Mindslaver turn, and he scooped.

Match 2
My GWu Eldrazi 2-0 BRu Aggro Midrange
Game one we both got off to a slow start, which benefits the Eldrazi deck. Shrine of the Forsaken Gods plus Stonespeaker Crystal got Emrakul to hit the board next to my already played Waker of Waves. Took their turn and wasted some stuff, plus attacked their creatures into mine. They took a draw and scooped.

Game two my opener had some lands, By Invitation Only, and Farewell. I played some creatures to stall the game a bit, then cast Farewell. Next turn, Eternal Witness got back Farewell. Opponent played Halo Forager as their second creature to flashback burn me for 4 down to 7 and force out the Farewell. Emrakul the the turn after that, triggering Sanctum of Ugin for Ulamog. I took his hand and he had a kill spell with nothing but Emrakul in play. I drew Master of Death, played it, wasted his kill spell on it, and surveiled 7 points of burn into his graveyard. He took his draw step and scooped.

Match 3
There was no match 3 because people didn't like their sealed decks.



Wish I'd had time to write this when I remembered more of the plays.