Brad Loves Eldrazi

Another color switch I'm considering is to run 5 guilds and 5 triplets while running 4x of the MDFC lands for those guilds.

Specifically, these 5 are ones that I like that make a color wheel:

4x of each would increase land density for all the decks. Aggro decks can also shave some lands by running MDFCs in their place. Whenever I draft a MDFC on CubeCobra, it immediately goes into the deck if it's on color.

Might try to run multiples on monocolor MDFCs as well.

I'm a little skeptical on Glasswing Grace, but it seems like a bit of a bomb if the opponent is tapped out and your 3/3 gets in for a 10 point life swing.

I've been wanting to try some multiples in a symmetrical way and hadn't thought of this until now. I made a Dragons list that had 4x of each Exhale and I liked the symmetry and significance of the multiples.

Combining the last two ideas: I like all the green 2c MDFCs decently.
 
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Raise the Reef?
Listing all the elementals that are within the realm of my preferred power level for my own reference. I like Risen Reef a lot and some of the new ones are cool, so let's check it out.
No Shriekmaw cus it kills titans easily and no Shatter/Naturalize guy cus they kill mana rocks too cheaply and are narrowish.

Could run scam, blink, elemental tribal stuff.

I like the idea of multiple Risen Reef and Fecund Greenshell ramping up pretty quickly.

I've always liked 5C stuff, so Vivid elementals are appealing.
 
How many elementals would you have to run before this fine fellow is worth it?



Also, I will always suggest



especially since it gives your 0/1 Spawns and 1/1 Scions some late-game oomph.
 
How many elementals would you have to run before this fine fellow is worth it?

Probably never? I don't think the elementals deck will be attacking opponents down until later in the game after establishing some control, so the buff seems mid and I feel like spending a card for the ability to ~Evoke cards isn't that good. If I look at the list above, there's not a ton of cards that I'm much happier Soulstoking than casting. Most of them are low MV or have Evoke.


especially since it gives your 0/1 Spawns and 1/1 Scions some late-game oomph.
Yeah that's sweet to send the little dudes with, but green 5 is super competitive here, so it's a maybe. I probably should cut 3-4 of these as it is:

I'd rather see my green 5-6s advance a player towards more mana than end the game before Eldrazi can see play. Still a fun interaction and a nightmare for blocking if I wasn't trying to drag late games like I am.
 
Vivid Dreams

I wonder if all the new hybrids can bridge this into
Devotion

Skipped the two color Gods because the point of the hybrids is to bridge the gap between mono and multicolored themes. The two colored ones are also super variable on power level.

Hybrids

A lot of the hybrids are commons, so it's a little lower powered. I worry that the disparity in power level is too wide between some of the hybrids and the Gods they're meant to enable. Maybe there's enough options to not sacrifice power level much.

A lot of random tokens in the devotion and hybrid section. I'd have to give up my minimalist tokens package to make that work.

I'll think more on these ideas. Wanted to put the list together for myself to look at and you guys can give opinions if you'd like to.

Multicolor, devotion, and colorless Eldrazi. How else could we mess with color?
 
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I like the idea to combine these two seemingly opposing themes through heavy hybrid use. Not that devotion is not the only way to mechanically care about one color, stuff like e.g. Cinder Pyromancer exists.
 
The last post was huge, so let's try to narrow it down a bit...
Devotion/Mono
How many mono payoffs are needed? My gut says not many because they're even narrower than multicolor cards. I'm thinking a God and another card or two per color?

I like these ones because they can go into a white attacking deck or a slower white deck.


Blue is more controlling and I think that these can work. Singer seems like a really efficient blocker.

Didn't go with Archmage's Charm because someone will forgot that they stole a card and they'll shuffle it into their own deck.

Didn't go with Thoracle because you can get similar card quality spells that aren't as narrow and the win con would be a rare late game occurrence when Eldrazi should shine.


I had a harder time narrowing this one down. Maybe because of my last cube. Either way, some sort of Swamp ramp or MBC alongside heavy black hybrids might be possible.

Maybe even break singleton on Coffers and Crypt Ghast. Coffers plus Swamps hits 10 mana on turn 7. Ghast does it on turn 5.


These are all hitters. Whirler wipes Spawns with potentially too much efficiency. OG Purphoros is a little too scary in a format that's forced to run a lot of tokens.


These all either ramp or support the Titans.

Not sure if the ramp creatures are significantly better than artifacts or sorceries around the same cost.

Charm is a little weak, but the exiling enchantments mode is important if we add 5-6 Gods here. The land options add 2 late game mana at best, but that's decent.


These are a solid mana incentive for any mono color deck to go for Eldrazi.

Hybrids

Cirina must be decent, right? Bad Stoneforge with flying? Maybe not...


Nightbonder would require intentional support. It can play as a bad Shock on attackers. Tome-Skimmer and Nightbonder probably go or stay together.


Rakdos Cackler is stronger than I want my red one drops to be.

Not sure Cutthroat gets there, but it's pretty easy to get a 4/3 for 3 on a very easy cast.

I think Boggart could be easy to support with some Goblins and it's a decent card in Black Control to get a blocker and a Swamp. Pretending the entire deck with 16 hittable lands and 39 total cards are left, there's a 12.1% chance to miss with it. Add 4 Goblins and that drops to 5.6%. Obviously, the math isn't perfect here, but the point is that the odds are pretty good.


I could see all of these in red aggro or green midrange except maybe a couple. Seems like a good set of cards.

Two concerns are that Raiders could outgrow Eldrazi and Surfer adds a unique token.


Couple unique tokens here, as well.

Pig is digital only, but easy to proxy and play in paper. A God-killing piglet is always useful in cube.

I rather like both abilities on this Guildmage in a long game, but it's only slightly better than a bear until later.


Second Pig is also very playable in paper.

Not in love with these WB ones. They all feel a little boring to me.


Same thoughts on this Guildmage as with Selesnya. Can be great later, but pretty mild early.

Not sure about the two commons here. Both have potential, but are kinda slow.


Even more new tokens.

Skipped Ravenous Squirrel for going too crazy with Spawns.


So many three drops, but they're all quite good. Low MV RW creatures are easy to make because the colors want their creatures doing the same thing.


Tam could be accidentally annoying in same color matchups in a way that's random and unfun.

Omo tracking is a little annoying, but it's a nice wall, fixer, and Domain enabler.

Sentinel does a lot. A 3/2 plus a counter plus potential counterspell for 3 worries me.


These might make the cut with a multicolor theme. Would be nice to have a little more removal that can't hit Titans.
 
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Nongreen Eldrazi?
Green is the color of ramp, lands, and big creatures. Even with ramp moved primarily to colorless via Talismans and other rocks, green still has land and creature synergies that favor it as the primary Eldrazi color.

This has always been a struggle for me. A lot of the Eldrazi are practically green cards because of how often they're played in green decks. I'd like to fix that a bit.

Let's look at some cards and see if we'd be willing to play a nongreen Eldrazi deck.

For the purposes of this post, none of these cards are allowed to be paired with green.

Could we get a mono or near-mono deck to ramp off of these? Probably.

Would any of the four nongreen colors be better at generating devotion count than the green deck? If the answer is no, then this idea loses some steam.


Could we get some kind of tribal deck to power out an Eldrazi with Gaea's Cradle At Home? Also probably.

Would a Human or Goblin or Zombie deck be better at ramping with this than an Elf deck? Probably not.


This is obviously black specific. I'd like to support it with a fetch/shock manabase to allow the deck to have the option to draft a small splash. Ghast and 5 Swamps or Coffers and 6 Swamps gets us to 10 mana and we can slam nearly anything from there.


Expedition Map always felt a little weak when it isn't assembling turn 3 tron. Park Map is a fine upgrade in my mind. Cave might be a little weak, but it replaces itself and produces C.


Wayfarer has the downside of only working with a catch-up mechanic, but it can angle us towards Wx Humans for Three Tree City and has a white pip for Nykthos.

Much like Expedition Map, I worry that Tolaria West may feel a little weak as a 3 mana tutor, but it's also a tapped land itself and could potentially grab an Everflowing Chalice, Engineered Explosives, or Sol Talisman. Blue also gets to see more cards than any other color and has the option to dig for a key land.


Tutors are only as good as what they can get. Demonic Tutor stops being so scary when there's no Power available. It's flexible, but your opponent can go ahead and cast Languish for 3BBB or Fatal Push for 1BB if they want to do that. I think it's stronger when you grab a 0 like Coffers or Nykthos or set up your next turn for a Kozilek, which is exactly what I'd like to see it doing.

Same goes for the other three, except the down payment is even higher. It'll be pretty rare that it's worth it to Sidisi away a Spawn (!!synergy alert!!) and slam a Languish for 5BBBB. Much more likely is Sidisi into Coffers or Sidisi into preparing next turn's play.

Would you play Wx Ux or Bx Eldrazi ramp with a package like this?
Are Nykthos and Three Tree more at home in green than nongreen? I think Nykthos pairs well enough with Coffers that black looks strong. What do we think about Wx and Ux?


Does this spark additional interest in Wx or Ux ramp? I'm not even sure it's good compared to Timeless Lotus.


Do either of these make you want to play Rx ramp? What if there were 2-3 of each? Hopefully the Lavaleaper player could take advantage of the stipulation and potentially follow up with a hasty Eldrazi next turn.

White and Red
Do any of these options make you want to play Wx or Rx Eldrazi more than you'd want to slot them into your aggro deck or ignore them entirely to keep playing aggro? Particularly, do you think players would have out a handful of Humans or Goblins and go for Three Tree Park Map Eldrazi instead of simply beating down? I think Nykthos has a better shot of working because you can assemble a bunch of pips without having to play a wide board like Three Tree requires.

Lemme know!
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Would any of the four nongreen colors be better at generating devotion count than the green deck? If the answer is no, then this idea loses some steam.
You have free reign on the cards you include in your cube, so you can make the answer be yes. You have the power in your hands! Black, especially, loves some devotion action with Gary, but all colors have decent options with color intensive mana costs.

Could we get some kind of tribal deck to power out an Eldrazi with Gaea's Cradle At Home? Also probably.

Would a Human or Goblin or Zombie deck be better at ramping with this than an Elf deck? Probably not.
So maybe the answer is, don't play Elves as the green tribe? I don't know if it is, honestly, but that would take Elves out of the equation.
Expedition Map always felt a little weak when it isn't assembling turn 3 tron. Park Map is a fine upgrade in my mind.
Be sure to be a monster and play nonmatching basic land art in your basic land box. You want to be able to find a second copy of a basic land, especially if you go heavy color requirements for devotion purposes.
Are Nykthos and Three Tree more at home in green than nongreen? I think Nykthos pairs well enough with Coffers that black looks strong. What do we think about Wx and Ux?
Again, it depends on what you pair it with. E.g. Plated Seastrider is kind of an ass card, but it defends the ground really well, has two pips for devotion, and encourages looking for late game answers. Patron Wizard is another card that heavily favors slow decks while juicing up devotion. Wizards even is a creature type you could build around. Apprentice Wizard is grrreat for Eldrazi builds. Arcanis the Omnipotent is some sick ass card advantage on a stick. Serendib Sorcerer holds down the fort. Suq'Ata Firewalker is a 20 turn clock, enough to get to your Eldrazi. Thassa's Oracle is a nice, non-aggro devotion pay-off that promises an alternative win condition if you can drag out games long enough. Et cetera.
White and Red
Do any of these options make you want to play Wx or Rx Eldrazi more than you'd want to slot them into your aggro deck or ignore them entirely to keep playing aggro? Particularly, do you think players would have out a handful of Humans or Goblins and go for Three Tree Park Map Eldrazi instead of simply beating down? I think Nykthos has a better shot of working because you can assemble a bunch of pips without having to play a wide board like Three Tree requires.

Lemme know!
If an aggro deck is there, for red and white, I will ignore everything above four mana, including Eldrazi. If other colors thave the tools to drag out a game, offering aggro options to those colors effectively lures you into a trap. If it's not a trap, do Eldrazi decks stand a chance? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it's an important dynamic to address in order to get this cube working smoothly.
 
Are Nykthos and Three Tree more at home in green than nongreen? I think Nykthos pairs well enough with Coffers that black looks strong. What do we think about Wx and Ux?
With eldrazi spawns/scions I think Three Tree City is neat even if Green uses them as well. It’s a feature of the format. If you can get other types in there too then multiples makes sense.

For Ux, untapping permanents seems like an easy way to abuse the lands and artifacts, giving the color a unique twist on ramp.

Coffers is cool, I dig it and Black is good at heavy devotion.

For Wx, devotion seems like the way to go for slower decks that might have some Oblivion Ring style of removal. I think faster decks would be better off with the kindred option. But if you are aggressive, you don’t care about fatties, so not sure. Unless you use Windbrisk Heights, Collector’s Cage and the new Kinscaer Sentry to include a cheat package or something.

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Particularly, do you think players would have out a handful of Humans or Goblins and go for Three Tree Park Map Eldrazi instead of simply beating down?
Feels like you could go ramp/sac/go-wide with some goblins



I'm also intrigued by this package



Alongside Chromatic Star style cards.

Enterprising Scallywag small time ramp goblin.
Runaway Steam-Kin not a goblin, definitely a ritual.

So I think goblin ramp has game!
 
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You have free reign on the cards you include in your cube, so you can make the answer be yes.
While this is an easy catch-all answer, drafters would be expecting green to do green things. From there, land and ramp gets a bit stronger and it's possible that attempts to bolster the other colors actually help green more. Sure, you can make your cube do most anything, but it can definitely go too far.
Be sure to be a monster and play nonmatching basic land art in your basic land box.
I didn't think about this, but I guess I'd wanna add a few nonmatchers.
Again, it depends on what you pair it with. E.g. Plated Seastrider is kind of an ass card, but it defends the ground really well, has two pips for devotion, and encourages looking for late game answers. Patron Wizard is another card that heavily favors slow decks while juicing up devotion. Wizards even is a creature type you could build around. Apprentice Wizard is grrreat for Eldrazi builds. Arcanis the Omnipotent is some sick ass card advantage on a stick. Serendib Sorcerer holds down the fort. Suq'Ata Firewalker is a 20 turn clock, enough to get to your Eldrazi. Thassa's Oracle is a nice, non-aggro devotion pay-off that promises an alternative win condition if you can drag out games long enough. Et cetera.
Again, I don't love the catch-all solution of "change all the other cards and this card will work."

There comes a point of watering down the format so much that the challenge of making Eldrazi work becomes inevitable. If we keeping sliding down that slope, there comes a point where Eldrazi is the dominant deck and other strategies become tier 2, like ROE draft.

Serendib Sorcerer is one I keep going back and forth on and is a good pick for devotion.
If an aggro deck is there, for red and white, I will ignore everything above four mana, including Eldrazi.
I feel the same and think that Wx or Rx Three Tree Eldrazi probably won't come together because of it.
If other colors have the tools to drag out a game, offering aggro options to those colors effectively lures you into a trap.
I wouldn't say it's a trap. Aggro decks did well in Rav Standard against Wrath, Fetters, Helix, Remand, Loxodon Hierarch, etc.
If it's not a trap, do Eldrazi decks stand a chance?
I swear I made a post about a day where we made two red decks and two green Eldrazi decks out of modified Sealed pools where the pools were separated by color. TLDR is that red beat green like 10-2 or something, but 3-4 of those games were down to the wire. A couple more topdecked lands for red and it easily could have been 8-4. This was in the first version of the cube which was pretty damn fast.

There's also this post where I made two decks played both red and green to success in the same day.

I think red vs Eldrazi should be red favored or there's nothing to police the Eldrazi, but I'd like the Eldrazi deck to stand a chance.

I don't think it's too far off.


With eldrazi spawns/scions I think Three Tree City is neat even if Green uses them as well. It’s a feature of the format. If you can get other types in there too then multiples makes sense.
Yeah. I was thinking Three Tree does fine if you play a couple spawners. I was also thinking Elves could be a faster and more vulnerable ramp deck compared to using rocks and lands to ramp.
For Ux, untapping permanents seems like an easy way to abuse the lands and artifacts, giving the color a unique twist on ramp.
True. We keep touching on that and we keep having too few interesting things to target. These lands are exactly what you'd want. But you know what color's best at untapping lands? Green.
Coffers is cool, I dig it and Black is good at heavy devotion.
Yeah. I'm pretty convinced on some Coffers, Ghasts, and removal as a deck.
For Wx, devotion seems like the way to go for slower decks that might have some Oblivion Ring style of removal.
I was also thinking Stasis Snare and similar could be a way to push white devoted.
But if you are aggressive, you don’t care about fatties, so not sure.
That's kinda where I landed on Three Tree, but still thought it was worth discussing. Maybe Elementals, Elves, and Eldrazi can be the Three E of Three Tree.

I think Three Tree is decent in aggro even if there's no Goblin Eldrazi deck.
Feels like you could go ramp/sac/go-wide with some goblins

I thought about this, but would you bin your whole board of 2/2s for a titan? Feels like the Three Tree problem where you're better off attacking.
This could work, but I feel like Cathodion and Su-Chi are happier in Bx sac and that the red cards, besides Novelist, still primarily encourage attacking.
Enterprising Scallywag small time ramp goblin.
Runaway Steam-Kin not a goblin, definitely a ritual.

So I think goblin ramp has game!
I have these and like the flexibility, but would they make you play ten mana cards in your red go wide deck? Again, I think the red player would rather be attacking with them. Red players are simple creatures, after all.



Conclusion?
Both of you reinforced a lot of what I was thinking. We can try to make R/W play a titan, but they're probably gonna turn the dudes sideways and ignore it. Three Tree City isn't gonna be the answer, but Nykthos has potential.

I think blue can play control into a titan.

I think black Coffers looks promising, but could prove unfun to draft.

Green can obviously get there.

I think white can be a good supporting color with wraths and other removal, but the weenie side of white doesn't want to deal with titans.

I think red can be a good supporting color with removal and treasures, but red mages like the red zone.

It's probably ok that we don't see white or red-based Eldrazi decks.

Bonus thought:
It's possible I need to accept that the Eldrazi are mostly green cards rather than trying to spread them around because they're colorless.
 
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