Make people use their phones as tokens.
General CBS
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
Those are some spicy topics to start out 2021 with! Credit points for Ravnic and Brad
I think for a traditional Riptide cube it is my personal opinion that color hate sideboard cards are a good idea if done right. To me that means in small dosis. Like Japahn says the late picks are suddenly a little more interesting because a color hate sideboard card will never be a high pick but will always be interesting later in the pack unlike the cards that are just not doing it for the players. This is very interesting!
I think you should go for either 5 or 10 color hate sideboard cards and no more.
I would choose Aether Gust as your blue anti Selesnya hate spell because it can also be used for other things like protecting your own permanent from a removal spell or buyback your Hydroid Krasis etc.
This has been an issue for me for ages and I still haven't found a good solution other than being extra picky about which new cards I was going to add to my cube as soon as they had the word "token" on them. I also update my token section whenever there is a Standard rotation (I use Standard rotation as a reminder) where I throw out all tokens the cube can no longer create and buy the tokens the cube can create. Tokens are almost free on the secondary market so I don't mind buying tokens I've thrown out before. It is more important that the stack of tokens are as small and suitable to the cube as possible.
So there you go. I have no solution for you but I am eagerly awaiting a solution from the riptide hivemind
I think for a traditional Riptide cube it is my personal opinion that color hate sideboard cards are a good idea if done right. To me that means in small dosis. Like Japahn says the late picks are suddenly a little more interesting because a color hate sideboard card will never be a high pick but will always be interesting later in the pack unlike the cards that are just not doing it for the players. This is very interesting!
I think you should go for either 5 or 10 color hate sideboard cards and no more.
I would choose Aether Gust as your blue anti Selesnya hate spell because it can also be used for other things like protecting your own permanent from a removal spell or buyback your Hydroid Krasis etc.
This has been an issue for me for ages and I still haven't found a good solution other than being extra picky about which new cards I was going to add to my cube as soon as they had the word "token" on them. I also update my token section whenever there is a Standard rotation (I use Standard rotation as a reminder) where I throw out all tokens the cube can no longer create and buy the tokens the cube can create. Tokens are almost free on the secondary market so I don't mind buying tokens I've thrown out before. It is more important that the stack of tokens are as small and suitable to the cube as possible.
So there you go. I have no solution for you but I am eagerly awaiting a solution from the riptide hivemind
While that's cute, maybe I wasn't clear what the problem is.
The problem I'm having is that telling my players "you can find a single Wolf in that pile of 50+ tokens" is a tall order. I'd sooner cut every card on this list that is the only instance of making X type of token.
That's 12 cards. Now my token pile consists of AT LEAST:
1 Snek
1 Wolf
1 Elephant
2 Thopters
1 Germ
1 Knight
2 Servos, but likely 10 Servos to be safe because there's likely more Fabricate around (plus blink)
1 Solder (without lifelink)
10+ Soldiers (with lifelink) to be safe on bigger or multiple casts.
5+ Treasures because he can make quite a few and there's likely more Treasures around
2+ Golem for blinks, likely other golems around (so more like 5+)
1 Food, likely more in environment
5 Clues, likely more
10+ Zombies
I looked into only have 1-2 token kinds per color, but damn WotC likes to make a new thematic token for almost every color almost every set.
Currently I'm super trying to limit the number of types of tokens I have around.
Does anyone have a better solution than cutting all but a few token producers in order to limit the task of finding tokens?
Make the tokens non-specific. Is it really not workable to just use dice, little marbles, or something similar? Seems to work in the vast majority of games I play outside of maybe a competitive environment, which I haven't been a part of for years now.
While that's cute, maybe I wasn't clear what the problem is.
The problem I'm having is that telling my players "you can find a single Wolf in that pile of 50+ tokens" is a tall order. I'd sooner cut every card on this list that is the only instance of making X type of token.
That's 12 cards. Now my token pile consists of AT LEAST:
1 Snek
1 Wolf
1 Elephant
2 Thopters
1 Germ
1 Knight
2 Servos, but likely 10 Servos to be safe because there's likely more Fabricate around (plus blink)
1 Solder (without lifelink)
10+ Soldiers (with lifelink) to be safe on bigger or multiple casts.
5+ Treasures because he can make quite a few and there's likely more Treasures around
2+ Golem for blinks, likely other golems around (so more like 5+)
1 Food, likely more in environment
5 Clues, likely more
10+ Zombies
I looked into only have 1-2 token kinds per color, but damn WotC likes to make a new thematic token for almost every color almost every set.
Currently I'm super trying to limit the number of types of tokens I have around.
Does anyone have a better solution than cutting all but a few token producers in order to limit the task of finding tokens?
There's no one weird trick other than to just limit the number of tokens your cube needs. You just have to be judicious with your token makers. Among the cards you listed there are some easy substitutes you could make.
- Crested Herdcaller -> Bestial Menace reduces your token needs by 2 on its own
- Cut Selesnya Charm because it's just filler anyway
- Cut one of Whirler Rogue or Wing Splicer since they fill similar rolls of boosting blink and artifact decks at the 4-drop slot
- Turn Visionary Augmenter into Master Splicer, Call the Cavalry, or Gallant Cavalry to match Selesnya Charm or the other Splicer (assuming you can turn other servo makers into other cards, etc)
- Do the thing I said for clues and treasure so they stand out
Or you could use dry-erase tokens and counters if your friend group is artistic (or just likes drawing)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/infinitokens
https://www.amazon.com/Apostrophe-Games-Erase-Blank-Cards/dp/B01H4D8ITK?th=1 (for a cheaper more cheap version)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/infinitokens
https://www.amazon.com/Apostrophe-Games-Erase-Blank-Cards/dp/B01H4D8ITK?th=1 (for a cheaper more cheap version)
Chris Taylor
Contributor
What I do is keep the tokens in sleeves that match the color of the token. Soldiers in white sleeves, Snakes in Green, Satyrs in Gold, etc
Cuts down on search time a fair bit, though unless you literally do the work for people you're never going to reach everybody
Cuts down on search time a fair bit, though unless you literally do the work for people you're never going to reach everybody
My list was intentionally a bit extreme, but a quick browse of Onder's cube shows me 41 unique tokens, not counting Embalm. Not calling him out, just a popular cube I grabbed to look at. I remember my old cube had an obscene number present as well, hence this concern.
The dry erase with a couple yellow, blue, black, red, green, grey markers around seems cool as long as there's no token-spam deck present. That seems perfect for decks with just a few tokens expected to see play.
This is also a good one if combined with limiting the number of kinds of tokens. Would make the search pretty simple, I'd imagine.
I've been considering an artifact themed cube, as a response to token issues, which would only have Thopter, Servo, Myr, Golem, Clue, Food, Treasure. I could even color code those.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I have a token box, which includes the embalm tokens as well. It's not pretty, but it works.
Picture?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh, it's just a standard deck box containing a lot of WotC-printed tokens, nothing special.
I had all my tokens printed where I also print my renders, so the all have a similar look and I'm not missing weird ones. They are white borderd because my token sleeves are white, so they don't get mixed up with my black cube sleeves.
I have like 50 different of these.
I have like 50 different of these.
From cube sessions in the past, I remember that while I had tokens ready to go in a box for players, most of my drafters just used placeholders for their tokens with either facedown cards or just dice. Might be different for you guys, but from my years of cubing, it was very rare that my drafters went out of their way to grab the correct token on their own. Most of the time it would be me viewing a boardstate and just bringing them out for them. I like having the correct token(s) when playing, but it definitely isn't a sticking point for the majority of my playgroup.
...
Is there anything stopping you from slipping a token into the same sleeve as a card that makes it? Put an appropriately colored Basic in with cards that don't make tokens.
I mean, this isn't a perfect solution, especially if you don't want people to pull cards out of the sleeves... but it would mean that those cards would be right there.
Is there anything stopping you from slipping a token into the same sleeve as a card that makes it? Put an appropriately colored Basic in with cards that don't make tokens.
I mean, this isn't a perfect solution, especially if you don't want people to pull cards out of the sleeves... but it would mean that those cards would be right there.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think the main limitations to that are
-Most sleeves bust when you try to fit two cards in, let alone if you're double sleeving
-Stuffing 10+ faeries in with your bitterblossom
-Most sleeves bust when you try to fit two cards in, let alone if you're double sleeving
-Stuffing 10+ faeries in with your bitterblossom
How many actual reanimation spells would one want in a cube deck? I am talking lower power, so the goal would be to cast Dread Return or Beacon of Unrest on curve. Could anyone give an estimation who has more experience with that archetype than me (greater than 0)?
It somewhat depends on how you want your reanimator decks to work.
Milling yourself into big guy + Unburial Rites, looting through your deck to find combinations like Vesperlark + e.g. Marionette Master, Archfiend's Vessel or cards like Vile Manifestation and Carrion Grub which might already be big because of all the looting/selfmilling, or having reanimation on cards like Nullpriest of Oblivion, which is also perfectly fine in Bx aggro, Call of the Death-Dweller, which can also bring back cards like Archfiend's Vessel and Vile Manifestation and so on. I seriously find reanimation to have become a lot more interesting in the last 2 years, as there are more flexible reanimation spells and even targets. You also have Thwart the Grave and Bloodline Necromancer which work better in dedicated party/tribal decks, Victimize that works with tokens, Blood for Bones as a card that's generally pretty interesting. And then there are other interesting reanimation spells in Back for More and Miraculous Recovery since they reanimate at instant speed (and the GB one even make the reanimated creature fight - living the dream and reanimating a Flayer of the Hatebound is one of the big goals I have in life).
Milling yourself into big guy + Unburial Rites, looting through your deck to find combinations like Vesperlark + e.g. Marionette Master, Archfiend's Vessel or cards like Vile Manifestation and Carrion Grub which might already be big because of all the looting/selfmilling, or having reanimation on cards like Nullpriest of Oblivion, which is also perfectly fine in Bx aggro, Call of the Death-Dweller, which can also bring back cards like Archfiend's Vessel and Vile Manifestation and so on. I seriously find reanimation to have become a lot more interesting in the last 2 years, as there are more flexible reanimation spells and even targets. You also have Thwart the Grave and Bloodline Necromancer which work better in dedicated party/tribal decks, Victimize that works with tokens, Blood for Bones as a card that's generally pretty interesting. And then there are other interesting reanimation spells in Back for More and Miraculous Recovery since they reanimate at instant speed (and the GB one even make the reanimated creature fight - living the dream and reanimating a Flayer of the Hatebound is one of the big goals I have in life).
In my cube I run 4 reanimation spells, two of which are standalone (Animate Dead, Necromancy) and two of which are more demanding or value-based (Unburial Rites, Dread Return). This means the Reanimator deck is common but not always present.
Depends a bit on how easily you can expect to bin threats and how powerful the threats are at 4-5 mana. If I have 10 Entombs and Big Gris in my deck, I'm going to want to be sure I can get him back on turn 5 every time. If I have 3 "2U draw 3, discard 2" and a couple reasonable 7 drops to reclaim, the number's a lot lower. In more common scenarios, I think japahn is on the right track.