Sets Conspiracy 2 Spoilers Thread

[GiftsForgiven]

Isn't it really good though? Like choose a bunch of haymakers with evasion and let this guy go to town turn 4? Talk about emotional spikes.

The 'random' effect makes it bearable, I think. Remember, you must pick a minimum of 3 creatures for it to function. The obvious move is to just grab fatties and turn it into an insane card, but think about it like this:

The player who drafts the 'fatty cheat' deck wants all the fatties, well... in the deck, and not exiled attached to this guy.

The player who doesn't have another way of getting fatties out isn't necessarily going to dump 4-5 picks into this one guy. I mean, if you do that and it just gets Pte or Stp in a higher-powered cube, it's gonna feel -real- bad.

This is a good tool for the fatty cheat decks that find themselves with too much fat, and I could see it making for some interesting draft scenarios, but I don't think it's oppressive. At least, not in my current environment.

 

[James Stevenson]

So cool!

 

[RavebornMuse]

Holy shit, what a reprint??? Wow. Great news for the non-proxy crowd, for sure!

 

[ahadabans]

Oh my. How much is it?

EDIT: $60.... sigh. This game pisses me off sometimes.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

Oh my. How much is it?

EDIT: $60.... sigh. This game pisses me off sometimes.

It was printed only in Alpha, Beta and Unlimited, and then in From the Vault. It is only used in a single 'archetype,' the price is wholly due to rarity of print.

This will be the first non-premium set that it's been printed in. Despite it being mythic, this will likely tank the price. You should expect to see it for less than half of that a few weeks post-launch of CNS 2.

 

[sigh]

A fascinating card.



I think lower-powered cubes will balk at the idea of someone just grabbing off-color fatties, but this looks like it could be very good for higher-powered cubes as a way of stretching oppressive fatty decks a bit. I will certainly try it in my cube.



Also, you know. It's cool AF.

This isn't a fatty card, imho. Just play it in agro, and get 1 of 3 random hate-picked fatties to beat down way harder and faster than you should. Turn 4 Griselbrand in RW agro seems... good. Pretty much agree with your analysis. Lower powered doesn't want that sort of effect, especially if the fatties make removing it even harder. Makes a good sneak attack variant for higher power. Cool card.

Honestly do have a problem with this design space though. This and savant are suuuper big color pie breaks. Mono red shouldn't be able to get the effect of Griselbrand or Elesh Norn, and mono U shouldn't get Hallowed Burial and Primal Command. It doesn't take deck space, whereas having to splash normally requires real investment.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Honestly do have a problem with this design space though. This and savant are suuuper big color pie breaks. Mono red shouldn't be able to get the effect of Griselbrand or Elesh Norn, and mono U shouldn't get Hallowed Burial and Primal Command. It doesn't take deck space, whereas having to splash normally requires real investment.

This is why I won't include either of these cards. Well, that and they can play cards dangerously ahead of the curve.

 

[RavebornMuse]

Volatile Chimera risks sucking up all the big "payoff" creatures from other colours. I can't imagine it being any fun, choking out the top-end of other decks at the table so that red aggro can get even more zany shenanigans. Red's already typically one of the most fun colours in any of our cubes. Pass.

 

[ahadabans]

It was printed only in Alpha, Beta and Unlimited, and then in From the Vault. It is only used in a single 'archetype,' the price is wholly due to rarity of print.

This will be the first non-premium set that it's been printed in. Despite it being mythic, this will likely tank the price. You should expect to see it for less than half of that a few weeks post-launch of CNS 2.

Wizard's if they had souls would get rid of the mythic card type, offer to buy people out from under their ridiculous $3000 lotuses etc, burn the reserved list to the ground, and then reprint every single card on the secondary market that is more than $5 in a giant massive common set print run. As many copies as necessary to get all the prices to crash. Set abbr FYSM (fuck you secondary market).

Probably totally alone on this, which is cool.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

Wizard's if they had souls would get rid of the mythic card type, offer to buy people out from under their ridiculous $3000 lotuses etc, burn the reserved list to the ground, and then reprint every single card on the secondary market that is more than $5 in a giant massive common set print run. As many copies as necessary to get all the prices to crash. Set abbr FYSM (fuck you secondary market).

Probably totally alone on this, which is cool.

Having seen both sides of that coin, I very much disagree with most of your sentiment, although that's an argument that does not belong in this thread.

This isn't a fatty card, imho. Just play it in agro, and get 1 of 3 random hate-picked fatties to beat down way harder and faster than you should. Turn 4 Griselbrand in RW agro seems... good. Pretty much agree with your analysis. Lower powered doesn't want that sort of effect, especially if the fatties make removing it even harder. Makes a good sneak attack variant for higher power. Cool card.

Honestly do have a problem with this design space though. This and savant are suuuper big color pie breaks. Mono red shouldn't be able to get the effect of Griselbrand or Elesh Norn, and mono U shouldn't get Hallowed Burial and Primal Command. It doesn't take deck space, whereas having to splash normally requires real investment.

I don't actually mind the 'color break' all that much. I think you're underestimating the amount of effort this requires to optimally work in the draft phase.

It obviously is cube-dependent power level wise, but it is worth noting that it does have the downside of putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.

Edit: I'm definitely going to try it in my current cube, where red can be a bit weak/is unexciting to draft in the hopes that it'll give it a boost. I'll report with my findings when I have them. I can see how strong this card can be, and am totally willing to cut it if necessary.

 

[sigh]

Having seen both sides of that coin, I very much disagree with most of your sentiment, although that's an argument that does not belong in this thread.







I don't actually mind the 'color break' all that much. I think you're underestimating the amount of effort this requires to optimally work in the draft phase.



It obviously is cube-dependent power level wise, but it is worth noting that it does have the downside of putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.

Its really really not that hard to pick three fatties of even moderate size, the draft strain this puts on you is minimal at best. They don't even have to be off color, they can just be too far up the curve normally speaking (inferno titan, say). There hasn't been one time I've drafted where fewer than three packs have had no good choices for my deck. Now you get to pick up fatties for your lil guy.

And so what if it even does? Sneak attack and Reanimate put strains on you by forcing a deck type, difference being this takes zero additional deck building space

And it puts no eggs in any basket. The cards aren't in your deck. This and savant are literally one card combos. Sure there's a minor risk for a tempo disadvantage, but when you can get a 5-total-mana Ulamog (maybe), that seems acceptable.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

Its really really not that hard to pick three fatties of even moderate size, the draft strain this puts on you is minimal at best. They don't even have to be off color, they can just be too far up the curve normally speaking (inferno titan, say). There hasn't been one time I've drafted where fewer than three packs have had no good choices for my deck. Now you get to pick up fatties for your lil guy.

And so what if it even does? Sneak attack and Reanimate out strains on you by forcing a deck type, difference being this takes zero additional deck building space

And it puts no eggs in any basket. The cards aren't in your deck. This and savant are literally one card combos. Sure there's a minor risk for a tempo disadvantage, but when you can get a 5-total-mana Ulamog (maybe), that seems acceptable.

Maybe I'm looking at this card wrong, and it is more warping than I think it is.

That's the wonderful thing about Cube as a 'living' set: If it's too powerful, you can always take it out. I think the effect is cool enough for me to throw it in there for a weekend and see what happens, but I'll keep it on my watchlist for sure.

 

[Fulcrum]

Holy shit, what a reprint??? Wow. Great news for the non-proxy crowd, for sure!

More fuel for the meme machine.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

For the record: I do think these cards would be tremendous fun to play with, and I would absolutely have tried them out if my cube had a high power level. I mean, these are not more powerful than Coalition Relic, Hero of Bladehold, Time Walk, etc., so if you run that, why not these? I just think that in the average Riptiders cube, they are too powerful for their cost, and they break carefully curated color identities. I know that would be the case in my cube!

 

[GiftsForgiven]

I think part of my issue is that my personal cube is just a big departure from the carefully curated engines that Riptide cubers love to create.

...I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. It does mean that my evaluations can sometimes be a bit backwards due to the perspective I'm coming from, though.

 

[James Stevenson]

Wizard's if they had souls would get rid of the mythic card type, offer to buy people out from under their ridiculous $3000 lotuses etc, burn the reserved list to the ground, and then reprint every single card on the secondary market that is more than $5 in a giant massive common set print run. As many copies as necessary to get all the prices to crash. Set abbr FYSM (fuck you secondary market).

Probably totally alone on this, which is cool.

What we need are perfect fakes

 

[James Stevenson]

That's the wonderful thing about Cube as a 'living' set: If it's too powerful, you can always take it out. I think the effect is cool enough for me to throw it in there for a weekend and see what happens, but I'll keep it on my watchlist for sure.

Agree

I think part of my issue is that my personal cube is just a big departure from the carefully curated engines that Riptide cubers love to create.

...I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. It does mean that my evaluations can sometimes be a bit backwards due to the perspective I'm coming from, though.

Your perspective is refreshing

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think part of my issue is that my personal cube is just a big departure from the carefully curated engines that Riptide cubers love to create.

...I don't think that's a bad thing, necessarily. It does mean that my evaluations can sometimes be a bit backwards due to the perspective I'm coming from, though.

I don't think backwards is the right word, try different As long as your play group is having fun with your cube, you are doing it right. Also, you're not the only one! Still, the average Riptide cube would still deviate quite a bit from the average mtgs cube, I think

 

[ahadabans]

What we need are perfect fakes

I've heard you can get pretty close with some overseas stuff. I've not looked into it though. I'd rather run real cards, but clearly there is no way I can ever afford a black lotus. I mean, even if I did find some way to buy one, it would strike me as the most foolish money I've ever spent in my life. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

 

[frostymoose]

I love this set.

 

[Peter LaCara]

Wizard's if they had souls would get rid of the mythic card type, offer to buy people out from under their ridiculous $3000 lotuses etc, burn the reserved list to the ground, and then reprint every single card on the secondary market that is more than $5 in a giant massive common set print run. As many copies as necessary to get all the prices to crash. Set abbr FYSM (fuck you secondary market).

Probably totally alone on this, which is cool.

Hey, do you have a local store where you get to hang out and draft on Friday nights? Play board games at? Get any D&D stuff you want?

Congratulations. You have just murdered them all. The secondary market is, no joke, the only reason many FLGS's survive. Yes, the reserved list sucks, but there really isn't a workaround at this point, and likely never will be. Smarter people than me with business law degrees will explain why breaking the reserved list would open WotC to a massive lawsuit.

 

[ahadabans]

Well, it's ultimately going to kill the game if they do nothing. Prices for cards can't continue to go up the way they have been and there still be people left playing. My entire group only still plays because I built a cube. I sold my Tarmagorf for $100 and somehow it's now worth twice that after being reprinted. How does that work?

And if a local store is only surviving because it's selling cards to kids for $100 a pop, I'm not sure seeing those stores go would necessarily be a bad thing. There is some level of exploitation involved here, no?

Clearly I come at this from a much more casual angle than most (all?) of the people posting here though. So agree to disagree works for me.

 

[sigh]

MTG is one of the last largely unregulated markets out there (with significant volume). Probably a neat case study for a lot of people, tbh

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Hey, do you have a local store where you get to hang out and draft on Friday nights? Play board games at? Get any D&D stuff you want?

Congratulations. You have just murdered them all. The secondary market is, no joke, the only reason many FLGS's survive. Yes, the reserved list sucks, but there really isn't a workaround at this point, and likely never will be. Smarter people than me with business law degrees will explain why breaking the reserved list would open WotC to a massive lawsuit.

Thats probably not a sustainable or advisable business model for those FLGS.

I suspect there is a healthy amount of exaggeration here.

 

[japahn]

Oh man, Subterranean Tremors is so damn cool and flavorful.

I was ecstatic with Volatile Chimera, but then I realized you can activate the ability until it's the creature you want. Would be cooler if you didn't have control, for example removing "then gains this ability", or making it happen on upkeep every turn.

Added points if you didn't get to choose 3+, but had to choose from your whole sideboard, as long as it had at least 3 creatures.