General Custom Cards: The Lab

[Kart]

I'm always trying to find ways to mitigate mana-screw. One approach I'm exploring is something similar to the Companion mechanism (but without the 3 mana tax) which I term Homeland. The idea is to give you access to a mediocre land in exchange for mild deck-building constrictions (and exiling a card to be able to play it). I also want to prevent people from using the mechanism to skimp on lands in their original build. I'm not sure of the right balance of the deck constraints and the land itself (should it EtB tapped in addition to producing colorless mana)? Another possibility would be to have you skip a draw (a la Dredge) to get the card instead of exiling a card from your hand. Some other Homeland restrictions:
1) Your 40-card deck contains 18 lands.
2) Your 43-card deck contains 18 lands.
3) Your 40-card deck contains 17 lands, at least 16 of which are basic.

The goal is that in most games, the player won't play the land because they're up to better things - the Homeland should act as an emergency escape from a miserable mana-screw. To provide some context, my cube is mid-power level (no Armageddon, FoW, StP, Recurring Nightmare, that OP monkey, etc.) and all players have access to Wastes in the basic lands box (although only the Ruins of Kroskun Keep would actually want one).

 

[blacksmithy]

i’m not sure that i like having to run 2-3 more lands than i want to run in my deck just so i can have a mediocre land as a bailout plan.
which is to say, i think going over and above to prevent mana screw is a good design strategy, but i’m not sure that the restrictions placed on the Homelands make them appealing to drafters. as a player i wanna run the correct number of lands my deck actually needs, AND have a screw bailout, not run enough lands to make me flood instead, and then have this land staring at me as i flood out.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

Foolish to think I wouldn't want overlap between anything I can get my hands of, even stax and storm if such a thing could exist.

Foolish to think it can't

 

[Rusje]

i’m not sure that i like having to run 2-3 more lands than i want to run in my deck just so i can have a mediocre land as a bailout plan.
which is to say, i think going over and above to prevent mana screw is a good design strategy, but i’m not sure that the restrictions placed on the Homelands make them appealing to drafters. as a player i wanna run the correct number of lands my deck actually needs, AND have a screw bailout, not run enough lands to make me flood instead, and then have this land staring at me as i flood out.

Well, you could add cycling lands…
The problem I have with the homeland is that it gives colourless. If you play two colours and you only have one in play you are still screwed.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

I think I would have to see all the homelands before I had any valid thoughts on the concept - the deckbuilding restriction to run 18 lands and needing that extra colourless source seems to put it in the camp of midrange and control rather than supporting the aggro decks that top out at 3 mana and are happy with 16 or 17 lands as long as they have enough duals to get from NN to 1MM, but maybe there are other restrictions that suit those decks. I'd love a land that had ": Add two mana of the type spent on this ability" in that deck.

 

[Velrun]

I like these for flooding


And these for screwing

 

[Rusje]

I like these for flooding


And these for screwing

The problem with screwing is sometimes the wrong colours, for which cycling lands help, but what if you get the screw that you do not draw lands?
You could add landcycling (1) to many cards, but are there other ways?

 

[Velrun]

The problem with screwing is sometimes the wrong colours, for which cycling lands help, but what if you get the screw that you do not draw lands?
You could add landcycling (1) to many cards, but are there other ways?

So obviously I do not think there is a perfect solution. If there were, I wouldn’t like the game as much. Nobody wants a game where everyone has perfect draws all the time. There needs to be some variation. The question is how much variation each of us wants. As a player, I want 0 and want to draw perfectly. As a cube tournament host I do not care about my win % because I am the host. And the game is a zero sum.

Including lands like Fiery Islet will help if the player draws too many or too few lands.

Same with


But actually help the players too much with their mana base is not a good idea if you ask me. At least it would be a gimic which can be kind of fun in the short run.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

I know this is going to sound really trite and condescending, but it's not intended that way.
1: Smarter mulligans - people keep shit hands sometimes.
2: Think about your manabase when you build the deck.
3: Is there sufficient density of card draw or virtual card draw in the cube - ways of scrying, or revealing cards until you hit a land, etc.
4: Are there enough exciting lands in the cube, especially those with activated abilities that help mitigate flooding and thereby encourage more robust manabases? Manlands are great for this.


Edit: To be clear, I don't dislike the Homelands idea - I think it's really cool and would encourage me to draft and build differently then I would in a cube without it. I'm not a fan of the restrictions and the fact they're all colourless personally, but I think it's cool design space that does the job. I would be a lot less conservative with them, as my philosophy is that better mana doesn't raise the ceiling of the cube, but raises the floor.

 

[blacksmithy]

The problem with screwing is sometimes the wrong colours, for which cycling lands help, but what if you get the screw that you do not draw lands?
You could add landcycling (1) to many cards, but are there other ways?

reducing your cube’s overall curve and adding more 1 mana cantrips across colors helps with screw

 

[Velrun]

Are there any Hero cards from Hearthstone you would consider balanced compared to Magic if they were to be included into your cube?

An example:

 

[Jason Waddell]

The hero power is an activated ability?

 

[Velrun]

The hero power is an activated ability?

That was my thought. Is it broken? Not thinking of any hero card specifically.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

I assume it's an emblem with : hero power text. Activate once per turn, and only whenever you could cast a sorcery.

The issue is, all of the battlecry (ETB) effects of the heroes are way overcosted for Magic (Six mana for a Pyroclasm+gain 5 life? 10 mana for a Divine Judgement+gain 5 life?), so the hero power would have to be worth it - but so many of them are RNG-fest digital only mechanics (Deathstalker Rexxar stapling two random creatures with the Beast type together, Reno and others generating random spells, etc)

Valeera the Hollow, worded as "Until your next turn, creatures cannot attack you and you gain Hexproof" and "The first spell you cast each turn has Replicate" or whatever would be fine - 9 mana for a crap sorcery speed Teferi's Protection that gains you 5 life better win the game after that point.

Shadowcrafter Scabbs, also fine - 8 mana sorcery speed Evacuation that gains you 5 life, creates two 4/2 creatures that have Hexproof until they deal damage, and gives you a once-per-turn discount of on a (noncreature?) spell.

Shadowcaller Anduin is a Retribution of the Meek that gives your spells "Kicker Deal 2 damage to any target" for the rest of the game so probably okay.

Uther of the Ebon Blade, also fine but you'd have to add a weapon mechanic - or he makes a +5/+? equipment as an etb instead?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The issue is, all of the battlecry (ETB) effects of the heroes are way overcosted for Magic

Yeah, Hearthstone's mana system leads to a much different costing of top end cards than MtG, plus there are mechanics like attacking with your hero that just don't translate to MtG. That said, Wildheart Guff would be insane (5 mana to gain 5, Rampant Growth and cantrip, and your hero power becomes Rampant Growth or cantrip for ) and Zul'jin would be very reasonable (10 mana to gain 5 and overload Mizzix's Mastery without exiling the cards, and your hero power becomes Shock for ).

 

[Karshtakavaar]

Something I've been puzzling over for a few days.
How would you template a DFC that starts as a land and flips to a creature using a Day/Night mechanic (Doesn't have to be daybound/nightbound, but something similar)
The idea is that it would be the "cheatyface" archetype instead of Reanimator/Sneak'n'Show - a couple of fatties start asleep under the land, a couple of spells or whatever hoops you end up having to jump through flips them into a nasty threat.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Something I've been puzzling over for a few days.
How would you template a DFC that starts as a land and flips to a creature using a Day/Night mechanic (Doesn't have to be daybound/nightbound, but something similar)
The idea is that it would be the "cheatyface" archetype instead of Reanimator/Sneak'n'Show - a couple of fatties start asleep under the land, a couple of spells or whatever hoops you end up having to jump through flips them into a nasty threat.

DFC lands that transform into a creature are already a thing, so you can just go ahead and use the daybound/nightbound (or the original werewolf) wording on them without any problems if you so wish.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

My bad, I worded that very poorly. Its more the play pattern when it comes to the werewolf mechanic/Daybound.

Like, imagine the following:

Loamy Mound
Tribal Land - Plains Mountain Giant
Daybound
//
Loamdragger Giant
Land Creature - Plains Mountain Giant
Nightbound
Trample
7/6

Works just fine rules-wise, but how does it play out when it's in your opening hand? You play it, pass the turn, it instantly flips. You either get blown out by removal or played a big ol' dude on t1 with no additional work, and it's getting at least one attack in before your opponent can double spell to flip it back. I like the counterplay of flipping werewolves when they're big scary threats, so I want to keep that back and forth, I just don't know how to get there.

Edit: NVM, it can have like, slumber counters or something that get removed every time you swap from day to night, until eventually it wakes up - delays the whole thing, bit of tension added - can I draw into an out before it flips, do I go all in to race or do I hold cards back to double-spell later. It can be sent back to sleep, but without the counters it'll wake up on the next night anyway.

Loamy Mound
Tribal Land - Plains Mountain Giant
Daybound
~ enters the battlefield with 3 slumber counters
//
Loamdragger Giant
Land Creature - Plains Mountain Giant
Nightbound
When this creature transforms into ~, remove a slumber counter from it.
As long as ~ has any slumber counters on it, it's not a creature.
Trample
7/6

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I'll bite, because I'm curious why @Velrun thinks this is broken.

Spoiler: For future reference

There was a big discussion on retrace and custom retrace cards in particular. I guess the seed for the discussion was this fight post that included a retrace card, which prompted LadyMapi to ask why there aren't good retrace cards in green and white, which then devolved into a proper off-topic Riptide discussion right about here, and Karshtakavaar's ultimate divisive card design above here. Mine's just a render (that turned into a scarecrow because sometimes you type creatures to fit the art that you find).

Spoiler: My arguments for why I think this isn't broken

Point the first.
Point the second.
Point the third.

 

[Velrun]

Broken

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Broken

That argument is not going to convince me any more in this thread than it did in the other.

 

[Velrun]

It’s a 2/1 that can be played in two different colors.

It has an upside that far outweighs its downside.

It is a recurring threat. For a single mana with no deck building requirements. Unseen before (correct me if I am wrong)

It is a discard outlet.

It uses a keyword that they haven’t before used for a creature.

It’s even a Zombie for the tribal decks.

All of these things point towards Wizards not wanting to print this card in 2022. I think it would wreak havoc in Legacy and anything below. It’s deceptively strong because it’s just an aggro card. Of course they printed Ragavan so maybe anything is possible but they also had to admit that the monkey was a mistake and ban it.

 

[Velrun]

That argument is not going to convince me any more in this thread than it did in the other.

You are not important
The world owes you nothing

 

[Velrun]

The following people in here have expressed that they consider the card either strong, very strong or broken:

@Karshtakavaar
When they said he would play the card.

@ravnic
When they said they would even play a worse version of the card.

@inscho
When they said they would play the card without hesitation.

@blacksmithy
When they shouted the card was broken

@Zoss
When they said the card was strong and custom cards a normally designed to be strong.

@Velrun
When they said the card is broken.

So there you go. Is that enough of an explanation for you or do you want more?

You are entitled to your opinion. I am also open to that I am wrong and the rest are wrong too. It is difficult to write lengthy articles about why a certain 1 drop is broken. It’s just too efficient at what it does for its mana cost. Very little wiggle room when it comes to a card that costs 1. And this does too much for too little. It would be another Ragavan or close.

 

[Velrun]

Are you satisfied?