That’s interesting. It certainly acts as a strong deterrent, but allows at least the possibility of interaction. It puts opposing players in a difficult spot, but leaves them outs, and as such may actually increase their decision density.
General Custom Cards: The Lab
- Thread starter anotak
- Start date
That’s interesting. It certainly acts as a strong deterrent, but allows at least the possibility of interaction. It puts opposing players in a difficult spot, but leaves them outs, and as such may actually increase their decision density.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Did your persist creatures never die?
Persist creatures are good at attacking/blocking. Yet you rarely see people cast a Doom Blade om a Kitchen Finks followed by another Doom Blade.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Hardly "you wont ever activate it" rare 
Hardly "you wont ever activate it" rare
Are you speaking from experience? How many times have you played with the mechanic?
yeah i gotta go with velrun here i really don't think it's like persist
the solution to hexproof I actually like the most is the Frost Titan tax (also on Icefall Regent & sundry), which I think Chris T named "Chill" when I gave it to him on a card
the solution to hexproof I actually like the most is the Frost Titan tax (also on Icefall Regent & sundry), which I think Chris T named "Chill" when I gave it to him on a card
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Jeskai Elite (above) was in my cube for about 3 years with that design, and there were a few other cards with the mechanic, all high picks. It plays like persist or Undying, except instead of getting a smaller/larger threat, you just get the same threat. Never stopped anyone from using two doom blades on it, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
Chill works well, I never found anything convincing to put it on, and something like "your creatures have chill 1" sounds just annoying enough to be useful.
I do like the "pro instants and sorceries" text though. I've been looking at how my noncreature sections are broken down, and there's a lot of walkers/enchantments/187s out there that this wouldn't always protect from.
It plays into the the whole minigame I like having, where if you've got 4 killlspells in your deck, they've each got different conditions so you've got to make little sequencing decisions so you don't get stranded with a sorcery against a manland, or ultimate price against something multicolored
Chill works well, I never found anything convincing to put it on, and something like "your creatures have chill 1" sounds just annoying enough to be useful.
I do like the "pro instants and sorceries" text though. I've been looking at how my noncreature sections are broken down, and there's a lot of walkers/enchantments/187s out there that this wouldn't always protect from.
It plays into the the whole minigame I like having, where if you've got 4 killlspells in your deck, they've each got different conditions so you've got to make little sequencing decisions so you don't get stranded with a sorcery against a manland, or ultimate price against something multicolored
So we can conclude you have 0 experience with it and maybe shouldn’t question the people who actually have the Knowledge next time?
We have already established that persist/sturdy/undying is nothing like the custom ability that is up for debate since persist/sturdy/undying protects the creature from dying by any mean and the custom ability protects from spot removals. This makes the whole difference.
Agreed?
We have already established that persist/sturdy/undying is nothing like the custom ability that is up for debate since persist/sturdy/undying protects the creature from dying by any mean and the custom ability protects from spot removals. This makes the whole difference.
Agreed?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Jeez Velrun, I don't know if that was your intent, but your post comes across as extremely belittling and I would be pretty tilted if I were Chris.
See, Chris actually made a post with zero negativity whatsoever, and moreover he actually makes some fair and interesting points. While there is a difference between sturdy and spell shield, in the context of kill spells, both need two, and that's a perfectly fine analogy to make. Of course sturdy offers broader protection, but if anything that does the opposite of invalidating his argument. If in his environment people were willing to spend two removal spells on a card with sturdy, I'm pretty sure they would be willing to do so on a creature with spell shield as well. That does not invalidate your experience with the mechanic either, it just adds to it. In other words, whether the ability plays out differently from full on hexproof depends heavily on the cube and the group playing that cube.
See, Chris actually made a post with zero negativity whatsoever, and moreover he actually makes some fair and interesting points. While there is a difference between sturdy and spell shield, in the context of kill spells, both need two, and that's a perfectly fine analogy to make. Of course sturdy offers broader protection, but if anything that does the opposite of invalidating his argument. If in his environment people were willing to spend two removal spells on a card with sturdy, I'm pretty sure they would be willing to do so on a creature with spell shield as well. That does not invalidate your experience with the mechanic either, it just adds to it. In other words, whether the ability plays out differently from full on hexproof depends heavily on the cube and the group playing that cube.
I would totally agree had I not already seen the replies from him earlier where he dismisses actual relevant testing for years (2008 is 10 years ago)
It’s a classic newbish mistake. “My opinion is just as good as the people who actually have the knowledge of the topic and I must share it with a dismissive message (the hardly quote) and attach a smiley and if I am proven wrong I will either ignore the facts, make fun or change the subject.”
I am left with with a feeling that I should not have shared my knowledge because it was questioned even after several years of playtesting which excludes the ‘depends on the cube and the playgroup’ since cubes and playgroups varies over the course of years. Especially since my tournaments are open and not private.
I was kind of expecting an apology and an answer in the lines of “My bad. I have no experience with it.”
Alas that was too much to expect and I will now move on. I have said what I wanted about that attitude and I have shared my testing information.
My final advice would be to test the keyword. Put it on some cards and you will super fast realize that the players will never want to spend two removal spells in order to kill off that one permanent.
It’s a classic newbish mistake. “My opinion is just as good as the people who actually have the knowledge of the topic and I must share it with a dismissive message (the hardly quote) and attach a smiley and if I am proven wrong I will either ignore the facts, make fun or change the subject.”
I am left with with a feeling that I should not have shared my knowledge because it was questioned even after several years of playtesting which excludes the ‘depends on the cube and the playgroup’ since cubes and playgroups varies over the course of years. Especially since my tournaments are open and not private.
I was kind of expecting an apology and an answer in the lines of “My bad. I have no experience with it.”
Alas that was too much to expect and I will now move on. I have said what I wanted about that attitude and I have shared my testing information.
My final advice would be to test the keyword. Put it on some cards and you will super fast realize that the players will never want to spend two removal spells in order to kill off that one permanent.
Super agreed!
And the ultra punishment is exactly = the custom keyword we are debating. One hundred percent countered so you will have to spend another spot removal to destroy the creature.
Cursed Arrowhead
Artifact - Ancient Equipment
When equipped creature deals combat damage, ~ deals 1 damage to each player.
Equip
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Inevitable Extinction
Sorcery - Ancient
Any opponent may exile two cards from their graveyard. If nobody does, destroy all creatures and exile ~. Otherwise, you may put ~ in your memory zone. (If you do, exile any card that is already in your memory zone.)
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Tectonic Subduction
Sorcery - Ancient
Put any number of cards in your graveyard on the bottom of your library in any order.
You may put ~ in your memory zone. (If you do, exile any card that is already in your memory zone.)
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Forsaken Menhir
Artifact - Ancient
When ~ enters the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Sacrifice ~: Creatures you control gain deathtouch and lifelink until end of turn.
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Lifeless Lagerstätte
Land - Ancient
: Add to your mana pool.
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Forgotten Flames
Instant - Ancient
~ deals 3 damage to each player. If you cast ~ from your memory zone, discard a card.
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Artifact - Ancient Equipment
When equipped creature deals combat damage, ~ deals 1 damage to each player.
Equip
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Inevitable Extinction
Sorcery - Ancient
Any opponent may exile two cards from their graveyard. If nobody does, destroy all creatures and exile ~. Otherwise, you may put ~ in your memory zone. (If you do, exile any card that is already in your memory zone.)
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Tectonic Subduction
Sorcery - Ancient
Put any number of cards in your graveyard on the bottom of your library in any order.
You may put ~ in your memory zone. (If you do, exile any card that is already in your memory zone.)
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Forsaken Menhir
Artifact - Ancient
When ~ enters the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Sacrifice ~: Creatures you control gain deathtouch and lifelink until end of turn.
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Lifeless Lagerstätte
Land - Ancient
: Add to your mana pool.Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Forgotten Flames
Instant - Ancient
~ deals 3 damage to each player. If you cast ~ from your memory zone, discard a card.
Relic (If ~ is in your graveyard, on the battlefield, or on the stack when the game ends, you may put it in the memory zone. If there is already a card in the memory zone, exile the old one. Your memory zone stays between games and matches in the same draft. You may play cards from your memory zone.)
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I have no idea how to evaluate this. Looks like a rather strong and, especially between matches, hard to enforce keyword. This is one of those things that only works in a group you know and trust. Some of these seem really weak, others, like the land, seem really, really strong.
Also, one big problem with the mechanic is that it's self-perpetuating. For example, once you've played Lifeless Lagerstätte in one of your games, you will have an additional mana source in your opening hand for the rest of the night if you want to. That seems... excessively strong, now that I think about it.
Also, one big problem with the mechanic is that it's self-perpetuating. For example, once you've played Lifeless Lagerstätte in one of your games, you will have an additional mana source in your opening hand for the rest of the night if you want to. That seems... excessively strong, now that I think about it.
If it doesn't play well as currently worded, there are a couple of changes I might make:
1. Only allow relics to go to the memory zone through specific means (like Inevitable Extinction). Maybe you have to give up the card in your current game to send it to the memory zone. Otherwise as Onder says, once a card is in there it's difficult to get it out again.
2. I'd add discarding a card as an additional cost to play a card from the memory zone, like Forgotten Flame but as part of the Relic ability, so that it's not just an additional card draw.
3. This might go against the idea too much, but restricting it to just across games within one match would solve some practical problems ("Oh I forgot what card was in my memory zone from last round because some people took ages to finish")
1. Only allow relics to go to the memory zone through specific means (like Inevitable Extinction). Maybe you have to give up the card in your current game to send it to the memory zone. Otherwise as Onder says, once a card is in there it's difficult to get it out again.
2. I'd add discarding a card as an additional cost to play a card from the memory zone, like Forgotten Flame but as part of the Relic ability, so that it's not just an additional card draw.
3. This might go against the idea too much, but restricting it to just across games within one match would solve some practical problems ("Oh I forgot what card was in my memory zone from last round because some people took ages to finish")
Or just include Time Machine in your cube
I saw this design here:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums...9-custom-card-creation-random-card-of-the-day
Unfolding Chronicles 1UU
Enchantment [Rare]
You may look at the top card of your library. (You may do this at any time.)
You may cast the top card of your library if it's historic. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
Tagging you Ondezeeboot with your historic theme and flair for custom designs.
What do you guys think?
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums...9-custom-card-creation-random-card-of-the-day
Unfolding Chronicles 1UU
Enchantment [Rare]
You may look at the top card of your library. (You may do this at any time.)
You may cast the top card of your library if it's historic. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
Tagging you Ondezeeboot with your historic theme and flair for custom designs.
What do you guys think?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Hmm... So a selective Future Sight? Sight is a busted card, very, very strong, but this hits far less targets, notably lands nor instants nor sorceries. That makes Unfolding Chronicles a good deal worse. I think it's a bit too narrow actually, to be honest. You're almost guaranteed to hit under 40% with this, and you're forced to play actual cards possibly off sequence to get the advantage, possibly wasting mana or unable to hold up mana for a counterspell. Which is probably still reasonable, but might as well play a Divination then, which is easier on the mana, and draws you two cards immediately, instead of having to wait 5 turns for the two cards to arrive.
I'ld much rather have this effect as the + ability on a planeswalker or on a creature.
I'ld much rather have this effect as the + ability on a planeswalker or on a creature.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
In a vacuum probably, Unfolding Chronicles would be about as good in white as it is in blue (since white may care about legendaries and equipment, but blue cares about artifacts), except white has a lot harder time to find card advantage, and thus would care for the effect much, much more. I would probably make it an artifact, to make sure the card itself triggers historic, since you do need a critical mass of triggers to get anywhere.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I'd test it at 3, (it is 3 color after all) but I think the wording they use is "empty your mana pool"
I'm not sure how that works with the new ":add " wording for Llanowar elves, but hey
I'm not sure how that works with the new "
:add " wording for Llanowar elves, but hey
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Haha, I used that wording before, but they actually changed it. Check out the Oracle wording for cards like Upwelling and Mana Short. I swear I had to change the card six times before arriving at the final wording above, because each time I found a new bit of wording that isn't in use anymore :')I'd test it at 3, (it is 3 color after all) but I think the wording they use is "empty your mana pool"
I'm not sure how that works with the new "
Anyway, cool, I'm going to test it at three mana then. I'm thinking of replacing the energy theme in Temur with a non-poisonous storm theme, if there is such a thing.