General Custom Cards: The Lab

[Velrun]

Things I would like to see in Magic soonish

(1)
More non-creature permanents with ward 1, 2 or 3.

(2)
Lingering -x/-x from black cards. In the last recent years red have expanded their “You may play the card until end of turn” to sometimes get “You may play the card until the end of your next turn.” Black could get something like it on their Infest and other spot removals that gives minus to power and toughness. I imagine the lingering effect could last ‘until your next turn’.

(3)
More spell/lands like Zendikar Rising’s double-faced cards. Simple designs without much text.

(4)
White conditional counterspells in the form of taxing.

 

[Brad]

(1)
More non-creature permanents with ward 1, 2 or 3.

I think Ward is super beneficial to the game. Hexproof is really cool, but has the unfortunate potential to become unfun. Ward has hit such a sweet spot of protection without annoyance.

(2)
Lingering -x/-x from black cards.

Let's get more -1/-1 counters going. I'd like to proliferate them.

(3)
More spell/lands like Zendikar Rising’s double-faced cards. Simple designs without much text.

I want more Channel lands. The DFC nature of the ZNR lands isn't preferred by a lot of us here. The Channel lands serve a similar purpose with a single-faced card. I can easily imagine a tapped BR dual with a 2BR Terminate as the Channel.

(4)
White conditional counterspells in the form of taxing.

Meh. Let blue be blue.

 

[Velrun]

(3) Channel lands
Yeah this also sounds nice. If they do more channel lands or something similiar (Adventure lands?) I hope the lands ETB tapped or with a clause like Castle Ardenvale and Hall of Storm Giants.

 

[Brad]

(3) Channel lands
Yeah this also sounds nice. If they do more channel lands or something similiar (Adventure lands?) I hope the lands ETB tapped or with a clause like Castle Ardenvale and Hall of Storm Giants.

Tapped Adventure lands in Eldraine2 is possible. Maybe colorless MDFC lands in Eldrazi Unbound from Commander Masters? I don't see anything on the schedule that could feature Channel, sadly.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Tapped Adventure lands in Eldraine2 is possible. Maybe colorless MDFC lands in Eldrazi Unbound from Commander Masters? I don't see anything on the schedule that could feature Channel, sadly.

To be honest, I was already surprised channel was the return mechanic in NEO!

 

[Velrun]

Are we finally going to see the throne?

 

[Taamas]

Assuming land would substitute creature in adventures as we know them, I'm not sure how Wizards would design adventure lands. Giving players the choice between land or spell with double face cards or channel lands is one thing. Giving players spells that will also be their land drop, even if tapped... I'm not sure. They will probably be more overcosted than channel or double face land/spell. Like the power level of the Kaldheim lands with two color activated abilities. Which is not that bad if you think about the card as lands, I guess.

 

[Rusje]

The problem with adventure lands is that when you can play the adventure, is that you can play the land part immediately after that. This makes the adventure lands really strong. Not only really strong but close to busted since you get the spell part for free.

 

[Mown]

It's not really a problem, just a balance consideration. There's a reason the adventure half of the card I designed is a 2-mana Careful Study sidegrade and not Swords to Plowshares. If you think it's busted then just adjust the numbers on the card until it's fair.

 

[Chris Taylor]

It's a bit more kicker than split card for sure, but that still helps flood

 

[Rusje]

I do like adventure lands. The problem is that it is a free spell. Companion showed how dangerous an 8th card is. Adventure lands are treading the same dangerous space.

 

[blacksmithy]

t

I do like adventure lands. The problem is that it is a free spell. Companion showed how dangerous an 8th card is. Adventure lands are treading the same dangerous space.

adventure lands do not start in your command zone at the beginning of the game

 

[Brad]

I do like adventure lands. The problem is that it is a free spell. Companion showed how dangerous an 8th card is. Adventure lands are treading the same dangerous space.

adventure lands do not start in your command zone at the beginning of the game

They also might be balanced properly on release...

All that said, my own Adventure lands are pushed with the idea that the environment they're designed for is also quite strong. Adding a mana to all the effects might be fine if you care to peruse my designs.



UB Adventure Land
Land
ETB tapped.
T: Add U or B.
___
Not Divination
Adventure - Instant
1UB
Draw a card.

Simple design showing that there's nothing inherently wrong with Adventure Lands. The spell half is an instant Divination that's guaranteed to draw one land, but the flexibility of dropping it on a sooner turn is there.

Mono R Badventure Land
Land
ETB tapped.
T, Pay 1 life: Add R.
___
Boulder Rain
Adventure - Sorcery
7RRR
Destroy target land.

You can even make them extremely bad. It's 100% an issue of balance and has no inherent danger to the design space.

 

[Rusje]

They also might be balanced properly on release...

All that said, my own Adventure lands are pushed with the idea that the environment they're designed for is also quite strong. Adding a mana to all the effects might be fine if you care to peruse my designs.



UB Adventure Land
Land
ETB tapped.
T: Add U or B.
___
Not Divination
Adventure - Instant
1UB
Draw a card.

Simple design showing that there's nothing inherently wrong with Adventure Lands. The spell half is an instant Divination that's guaranteed to draw one land, but the flexibility of dropping it on a sooner turn is there.

Mono R Badventure Land
Land
ETB tapped.
T, Pay 1 life: Add R.
___
Boulder Rain
Adventure - Sorcery
7RRR
Destroy target land.

You can even make them extremely bad. It's 100% an issue of balance and has no inherent danger to the design space.

Yes, you can make them inherently bad. However any adventure land with a mana cost which has a probability to be cast is likely strong (unless the land is tempest enemy dual land bad).
Adventure is a spell+a land. You cast the adventure and can play the land immediately afterwards. It is more like:
When you would play this land you may pay x if you do… (and even stronger than this since you can play it on a later turn). I like it, but it is much much stronger than the land part without the adventure part. Why do you ask? Well, it does not take a non-land slot in your deck. Hence the 8th card reference.
There is a reason why

are nowhere close in power level (even when one changes the hollow regeneration clause to 1g). One is a ‘free’ spell which can generate mana the other is not.

In an environment without non-basic land hate, any adventure ‘basic’ land is way more powerful than a basic land. It is card advantage at its pinnacle.

 

[Brad]

Yes, you can make them inherently bad. However any adventure land with a mana cost which has a probability to be cast is likely strong (unless the land is tempest enemy dual land bad).
Adventure is a spell+a land. You cast the adventure and can play the land immediately afterwards. It is more like:
When you would play this land you may pay x if you do… (and even stronger than this since you can play it on a later turn). I like it, but it is much much stronger than the land part without the adventure part. Why do you ask? Well, it does not take a non-land slot in your deck. Hence the 8th card reference.
There is a reason why

are nowhere close in power level (even when one changes the hollow regeneration clause to 1g). One is a ‘free’ spell which can generate mana the other is not.

In an environment without non-basic land hate, any adventure ‘basic’ land is way more powerful than a basic land. It is card advantage at its pinnacle.

I don't think it's a fair comparison between one of the best utility lands and a random Weatherlight card.

It's also not as if every iteration of an Adventure Land will be playable and broken.

Do you think that the UB card I designed is "card advantage at its pinnacle"?
What about the red card? What if destroying the land cost 5? What if it cost 4?

 

[blacksmithy]

this is like saying that the horizon lands are broken because you get a land and to draw a card.
onviously theyre good, because card advantage on a mana source is good. and cards should be allowed to be good. especially in customs world.

 

[Velrun]

Adventure lands is not comparable to Companions because Companions were an 8th card. Adventure lands cannot be no matter how we design them. You have to draw the card to use it.

Their designs could be simple. Let the land ETB tapped without land types. Let the spell be an overcosted simple spell.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I do like adventure lands. The problem is that it is a free spell. Companion showed how dangerous an 8th card is. Adventure lands are treading the same dangerous space.

Companions let you start the game with 8 cards in your opening hand, adventure lands do not. They’re more akin to spell lands and man lands, in that they increase the spell density in your deck.

Like with other adventure cards, you have to balance your design around the fact that the adventure half cantrips in addition to whatever else it does. That’s why Bonebreaker Giant’s adventure half charges to Shock and Order of Midnight raises the dead for . Typically drawing a card is worth about 1.5 additional mana, and since these adventure lands do increase the spell density in your deck I would err on the side of rounding up here. That said, multicolor spells get to be a bit cheaper than mono color spells (because they are harder to cast), so there is room to push the adventure half of adventure lands slightly.

 

[Rusje]

this is like saying that the horizon lands are broken because you get a land and to draw a card.
onviously theyre good, because card advantage on a mana source is good. and cards should be allowed to be good. especially in customs world.

Most replies which disagree with me point to cycling/horizon/dfc lands/channel or something akin. Those examples increase the spell density of your deck. However, those examples are either the land or the spell!

Man lands are a tad different. But they require a mana cost each time (and yes they are quite strong).

Horizon lands are not and. You get the land and if you are done with it you cycle it from play. Adventure lands give you a spell (say draw a card) and give you the land.

I stated that they are treading the same dangerous space that companions did. That is because both add a spell without costing a card in your deck (with the assumption that the land part is not too bad like the custom above).

tldr: adventure lands are really strong because they add spell density without sacrificing the land part since it is an AND as opposed to almost all lands done before (manlands/utility lands are close and have been powerhouses in their standard format).

 

[Velrun]

@Rusje
You are right. Adventure lands are two cards in one. Like Divination and Firebolt.

Adventure lands has to be an overcosted spell. Otherwise the tapped land you get will too fast pay the mana back from the spell.

 

[Rusje]

@Velrun yes, but those cards require a spell slot in your deck. With adventure lands you can have as many spells in your deck as cards. That is also true with manlands.

 

[Velrun]

@Velrun yes, but those cards require a spell slot in your deck. With adventure lands you can have as many spells in your deck as cards. That is also true with manlands.

So as long as the spells are overcosted, it's fine right?

 

[Rusje]

So as long as the spells are overcosted, it's fine right?

Well, yes and no. It should probably be an overcosted spell and an ‘overcosted’ land. If the land is as good as a normal land in your deck than it is a no brainier to include (even a shock for 5 mana).

A small example:


With
Drawventure forest
Adventure part: y colourless mana
Base part: land, comes into play tapped, taps for a green mana.

How much should Y be such that drawventure is as strong as slippery? It is likely that slippery is too weak for your cube, so one could skew Y such that it is your desired powerlevel.

 

[Velrun]

Well, yes and no. It should probably be an overcosted spell and an ‘overcosted’ land. If the land is as good as a normal land in your deck than it is a no brainier to include (even a shock for 5 mana).

Yes I agree. I have repeatedly in many threads on Riptidelab commented the last few days since I brought Eldraine and adventure lands up for discussion preached that I think it is crucial that the land ETB tapped. Or has a clause like Castle Ardenvale or Hall of Storm Giants. They will be too strong in my opinio of they are like the channel lands from Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty.

About your drawventure Slippery Karst I would say I would definetely play the card if the left side was a draw spell (cantrip) for 3 mana and the right side was a tapped green land. It would be better than Cultivate on turn 3 and it would not even take up a spell slot.

 

[blacksmithy]

if the adventure on an adventure land costs 4 or more, getting the land afterwards is EXTREMELY devalued compared to a 1 or 2 cost adventure.

i'd love to post my usual "wotc please print broken lands" but honestly ill just make my own anyways so they can print bad cards if they want, that is fine by me