General Custom Cards: The Lab

[Chris Taylor]

Not all elementals have evoke though, just the reverse.

Alright, I sat my ass down and pounded these out. Turns out there's (mostly) a naming convention to lorwyn elementals. They're either described literally (Briarhorn, Offalsnout) or they're essentially Verb-Nouners (Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw, Faultgrinder, Ingot Chewer).

There's also Walker of the Grove, Inner-Flame Acolyte (Who's a flamekin and not the more esoteric elemental like the rest of them, but then there's glarewielder who is as well and does follow the naming convention?) and Night Incarnate, but other than commander designers not caring, I've got no explanation.


My foresee clone even uses surveil now. Probefeaster might need something along the lines of a duress flavor text to help carry the concept along (you give up secrets to make him stop) but it looks like I've got the room.

I'm not wholly happy with the art for Secretseeker, I kinda wanted a giant unblinking eyeball flyin around looking for stuff but everything I found was either literally a beholder or so low res as to be doodles. Turns out searching for images of "Eyes", even big floaty ones is less helpful I'd once thought.

Maybe something like bill cipher would work. One big eyeball in a floating pyramid housing

 

[Onderzeeboot]

One of my links might work?
https://www.deviantart.com/davesrightmind/art/Diamond-Rain-Maker-673880005



Or this weird art?
https://www.deviantart.com/martith/art/Eventide-743980723

 

[Velrun]

This is beautiful. Very well done all of you!

The only thing I see is Secretseeker is a bit off because:
1. Artwork
2. The only card without an actual MTG card text.

I might also test Probefester at 4 mana.

 

[anotak]

Not all elementals have evoke though,

no reason you can't commit to this yourself though!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

no reason you can't commit to this yourself though!

While that is true in a fully custom cube, it's not really reasonable to uphold this rule and ignore other elementals WotC prints because they don't have evoke (unless you really want to).

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Also, don't know if this is flying and 2/2 enough for you (it's kinda floating like a beholder), but maybe this works for you Chris?
No idea who the artist is, this image is mainly floating around on Pinterest... https://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-32/mff-evil-eye.html

 

[Chris Taylor]

Also, don't know if this is flying and 2/2 enough for you (it's kinda floating like a beholder), but maybe this works for you Chris?
No idea who the artist is, this image is mainly floating around on Pinterest... https://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-32/mff-evil-eye.html

View attachment 2191

That's amazing! I like it and i'll use it, but man, damnit Pinterest
Somehow it's nearly impossible to source anything there, and even any deep diving I did on this image only told me what your initial link did: It's from a game called Mobius Final Fantasy, which has an art team of like 10+ people.

no reason you can't commit to this yourself though!

There's not a lot of good reasons for me to make custom versions of cards like Vengevine, Flickerwisp, and Undergrowth Champion because they happen to be elementals without evoke The more real cards I can include, the better.

This is beautiful. Very well done all of you!

The only thing I see is Secretseeker is a bit off because:
1. Artwork
2. The only card without an actual MTG card text.

I might also test Probefester at 4 mana.

It's intentionally overcosted to encourage it to be evoked. This isn't in my cube to replace a 5cc creature, it's in there to replace a 1cc black spell (I didn't happen to be running blackmail before)

 

[Velrun]

It's intentionally overcosted to encourage it to be evoked. This isn't in my cube to replace a 5cc creature, it's in there to replace a 1cc black spell (I didn't happen to be running blackmail before)

I know. That is what you initially wrote and I haven’t forgotten. I would still test it at 4 though. I feel like a non-evasive 2/2 body is useless after turn 5.

Putting it at 4 would change your audience from 99 % evoking it and 1 % casting it to 90 % evoking it and 10 % casting it. In my opinion.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

That's amazing! I like it and i'll use it, but man, damnit Pinterest
Somehow it's nearly impossible to source anything there, and even any deep diving I did on this image only told me what your initial link did: It's from a game called Mobius Final Fantasy, which has an art team of like 10+ people.

Yeah, I kinda hate Pinterest for that. I also did that deep dive, and it was impossible to find out anything more for me. Anyway, I'm glad you like it!

Edit: Maybe this will lead you somewhere?
https://koukoupuffs.net/2016/06/06/the-artists-of-mobius-final-fantasy/

 

[safra]

agree w velrun you can always revise the cost up if it's problematic

 

[Chris Taylor]

Yeah, I kinda hate Pinterest for that. I also did that deep dive, and it was impossible to find out anything more for me. Anyway, I'm glad you like it!

Edit: Maybe this will lead you somewhere?
https://koukoupuffs.net/2016/06/06/the-artists-of-mobius-final-fantasy/

Well, the answer is probably there somewhere! I'll take a look.

I know. That is what you initially wrote and I haven’t forgotten. I would still test it at 4 though. I feel like a non-evasive 2/2 body is useless after turn 5.

Putting it at 4 would change your audience from 99 % evoking it and 1 % casting it to 90 % evoking it and 10 % casting it. In my opinion.

Maybe a 3/3, maybe menace, something like that. 4 you just hit every game, so people will hold back a lot.
Like if you have 4 lands, this a 2 and a 3, are you evoking it?

 

[Velrun]

I guess it depends heavily on the situation. What’s on the board, what are the 2 and 3 in your hand, what is also in your hand, what are the life totals etc.

Yeah menace or deathtouch.

Or nothing Totally up to you. I never tell people what to do but instead say what i would do in the situation. I would give it something. The two keywords seem to fit.

 

[Velrun]

This is not actual custom card talk. And then again, maybe it is.

I am putting labels on my 5 Swords. They have all lost their protection for X and Y but have all gained a keyword.

Body and Mind: Hexproof
Light and Shadow: Lifelink
Feast and Famine: Deathtouch
War and Peace: First strike

What do I put on Fire and Ice?
For reference:
Sword of Fire and Ice

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This is not actual custom card talk. And then again, maybe it is.

I am putting labels on my 5 Swords. They have all lost their protection for X and Y but have all gained a keyword.

Body and Mind: Hexproof
Light and Shadow: Lifelink
Feast and Famine: Deathtouch
War and Peace: First strike

What do I put on Fire and Ice?
For reference:
Sword of Fire and Ice

Prowess! And then you remove hexproof from Body and Mind and find something else, because hexproof suuuuuuuuucks and Body and Mind is already the strongest sword in limited.

 

[Velrun]

Prowess! And then you remove hexproof from Body and Mind and find something else, because hexproof suuuuuuuuucks and Body and Mind is already the strongest sword in limited.

Prowess is fucking genius. (Sorry mom but it was the right time to use that word)

What works for green-blue other than hexproof (Which sucks but is still better than colored protection) and flash which doesn't work on permanents already on the battlefield?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Prowess is fucking genius. (Sorry mom but it was the right time to use that word)

What works for green-blue other than hexproof (Which sucks but is still better than colored protection) and flash which doesn't work on permanents already on the battlefield?

Hmm... Blue and green can both untap creatures, maybe vigilance? It's not necessarily in blue's color pie, but it's also not too far removed from what it can do. Of course vigilance is also annoying, but I imagine it's less annoying than hexproof.

 

[Velrun]

It is completely outside blue/green’s color pie part.

Green gets vigilance rarely but blue never gets it. And in 20 years they have not printed a blue-green creature with vigilance.

It could get an untap effect but I would rather cut the card than break the ‘cycle’ by giving it a non-keyword effect.

It could be trample because blue-green creatures get trample. It just feels weird.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Trample will probably play nice and well.
But honestly you could have body and mind give cumulative upkeep and it'd still be strong as hell.

Quick Question: What's more powerful?
W
Flying, Prowess
1/1

or

W
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, ~ gains flying until EoT.
2/1

Env is pretty fast.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

It is completely outside blue/green’s color pie part.

Green gets vigilance rarely but blue never gets it. And in 20 years they have not printed a blue-green creature with vigilance.

It could get an untap effect but I would rather cut the card than break the ‘cycle’ by giving it a non-keyword effect.

It could be trample because blue-green creatures get trample. It just feels weird.

Vigilance was moved to blue in Planar Chaos for a reason. While it's not currently in blue's color pie, it is very close to what blue can do, and it definitely is in green's color pie. I feel like it would be a reasonable keyword to put on there. In any case, I wouldn't be opposed to cutting Body and Mind either, it's kind of a silly weapon in limited. You only need three hits with it to kill your opponent.

 

[Velrun]

Vigilance was moved to blue in Planar Chaos for a reason. While it's not currently in blue's color pie, it is very close to what blue can do, and it definitely is in green's color pie. I feel like it would be a reasonable keyword to put on there. In any case, I wouldn't be opposed to cutting Body and Mind either, it's kind of a silly weapon in limited. You only need three hits with it to kill your opponent.

What's the reason?

Counter argument: Blue has not received vigilance in 10 years for a reason.

'For a reason' arguments don't hold up in court in my opinion. I have heard wrong reasons being argued for too many times to fall for that.

I understand your logic about "Untapping a creature is almost like vigilance" except that argument only holds water if you actually ignore the true idea about the color pie. Everything in Magic is almost the same but the small differences are what makes the color pie the color pie. Doom Blade is almost Remove Soul but it isn't. Same goes with flash creatures with deathtouch vs. instant removal spells. They are almost the same but it is no longer Magic if you break the color pie. I am not against breaking the color pie but I am against it for this specific cube.

I think I will go with trample or with the cut BUT I still want to thank you for helping. You always bring insightful information and a fruitful debate. Sometimes we do not end up agreeing but I always learn something along the way.

----

Chris
Ehm

I believe the 2/1 is more powerful.

Scenario 1: You do not have an instant or sorcery in your hand
You get to attack for 2. It can be blocked but will most likely take the blocker with it to the grave. At least in the early game. In late game neither really matters much.

Scenario 2: You have an instant or sorcery in hand.
They will be similiar. Both will attack for 2 flying damage.

The 2/1 can fall behind if the 1/1 prowess actually gets to be triggered several times in a turn.

Above is my opinion.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Quick Question: What's more powerful?
W
Flying, Prowess
1/1

or

W
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, ~ gains flying until EoT.
2/1

Env is pretty fast.

Why not "both". What if...

W
Spell mastery — As long as there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, CARDNAME has flying.
2/1

I feel like this keyword wasn't used enough. It lends itself well for creature buffs like this I think.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

What's the reason?

Counter argument: Blue has not received vigilance in 10 years for a reason.

'For a reason' arguments don't hold up in court in my opinion. I have heard wrong reasons being argued for too many times to fall for that.

I understand your logic about "Untapping a creature is almost like vigilance" except that argument only holds water if you actually ignore the true idea about the color pie. Everything in Magic is almost the same but the small differences are what makes the color pie the color pie. Doom Blade is almost Remove Soul but it isn't. Same goes with flash creatures with deathtouch vs. instant removal spells. They are almost the same but it is no longer Magic if you break the color pie. I am not against breaking the color pie but I am against it for this specific cube.

I think I will go with trample or with the cut BUT I still want to thank you for helping. You always bring insightful information and a fruitful debate. Sometimes we do not end up agreeing but I always learn something along the way.

Fair enough. I do feel strongly you shouldn't go with a miserable keyword just because it happens to be the only available on-color-pie option. Better to break the cycle and cut the card altogether than introduce hexproof on an equipment that only needs to connect three times.

Actually, trample is probably just as miserable, because now the equipped creature can't be chump blocked anymore, and you need to throw everything under the bus just to avoid getting milled in three turns. Sword of Body and Mind just doesn't offer a very compelling sub-game to be honest.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Could knock it down to 5 cards if you're already changing things

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Could knock it down to 5 cards if you're already changing things

That is also a very interesting option Gotta make sure people don't play it wrong though, if people play on autopilot by the art, that might be a problem.

Maybe if you throw in some custom art? This one might work?

https://www.deviantart.com/firebornform/art/Endings-and-Beginnings-380738481

Maybe come up with a new name as well that sticks close to the old one. Sword of Body and Soul or something like that.

 

[Velrun]

I have the foil Masterpiece Invention for each of them. I will not custom them up

What I do want to do, however, is what I said: Give each of them a keyword in place of the protection.

This solution looks elegant and feels fair. Color hate is one of the only unfair things in Magic and I want to get rit of it for a fair tournament where skills matter more than luck. It is also immediately recognizable by the players because the text is short, simple and put at the top of the card text. For this technique I use labels.

If I were to completely change the cards and make them customs I could just as well design something cooler than this cycle. My point is: If they requirements are removed from the challenge then the designs could get a lot more creative.