General Debate Topics

Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I am writing an article on debate topics.

E.g. 360 v 720
Is Kiki Pod really stupid.

Give me more topics.
 
Alfonzo Bonzo

Alfonzo Bonzo

The terminate test in 2014.
Synergy vs power.
The role of green.
Is white the dullest colour?
How cube design changes based on the number of players.
Does the hivemind restrict creativity?
How does speed of the cube affect gameplay.
What makes for a satisfying game of cube magic?
 
silasw

silasw

If a card is iconic among Magic players or your playgroup, but not actually good for your cube, should you still run it?
Support blue aggro/tempo or not?
Proxy or not?
Un-cards, okay or not?
Is land destruction fun? Stax? Winter Orb?
Are fetchlands necessary?
Are Swords of X and Y just dumb?
 
Soshi

Soshi

Damage on the stack for older cubes.
Balance - Most fun card ever?
stopping midrange/goodstuff from being the best decks
Pw v. non-pw
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

I forgot about damage on the stack. I mean, I obviously remember it since I actually still run that. But it's a great discussion point.
 
Jesse G

Jesse G

Synergy cards vs. goodstuff/versatility

I find this to be the most difficult part of my cube to balance, and I'm constantly arguing the merits of both types of cards with a fellow cube designer... it strikes me as a really deep topic, and a great one to debate since obviously the "ideal environment" includes some of both..... Although, now that I think about it, some dude wrote this article called "The Poison Principle" a while back with a pretty similar topic. I wouldn't want you to step on his toes. :p
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Another idea... how much consistency is too much consistency? In other words, how much do you want cube to play like constructed vs limited. Somewhat ties into how much you support and push specific decks versus just running a collection of good cards.
 
Tyrole

Tyrole

It's probably been done, but maybe Powered vs. Unpowered?

While the riptide crowd has a pretty good understanding of the design benefits of unpowered, the public at large is less....educated. There was another thread here recently discussing the value of having powered cube "story games" where also sorts of crazy fun happens, even if these games are only 10% of the time. Could be used as a legitimate counterpoint to keeping GRBS in check.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I think the main thing with powered vs unpowered is that when you randomly include a smattering of completely "next level" cards and mix them in with Ember Hauler or whoever fills that slot these days, it creates a lot of really feel bad moments (I first picked Preordain, you first picked Ancestral Recall, that's totally fair). I think if you went all in on a powered design (i.e. designed for vintage style gameplay) it could be a fun, but would also be a completely different experience.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

FlowerSunRain said:
I think the main thing with powered vs unpowered is that when you randomly include a smattering of completely "next level" cards and mix them in with Ember Hauler or whoever fills that slot these days, it creates a lot of really feel bad moments (I first picked Preordain, you first picked Ancestral Recall, that's totally fair). I think if you went all in on a powered design (i.e. designed for vintage style gameplay) it could be a fun, but would also be a completely different experience.
Click to expand...

This really hits home with me. I know this is an idea thread for Jason, but rant incoming...

When I first discovered this format, the "power max" "best cards of all time" idea was pretty much the only thing there was. And it was novel and it made sense at the time.

Anyway, fast forward almost 10 years and I think we are at a very different place with cube. For me anyway, it quickly became clear that only running the most powerful cards was a flawed design principle for two very important reasons:

1. Over time, the power level of your meta can only go UP. That might not sound like a problem, but it's what leads to degenerate game states. Power cannot continue to increase without the game breaking down. Wizards is constantly printing a powerful set and following it up with weaker sets. Some guys might think that is by accident or because they don't know what they are doing, but it's not. They are doing it for a reason - so they can keep a constant power level over time. The only way to do that is to cycle the power of the sets they release. There is even an article about this very thing (it's a good read). In cube though, most guys aren't doing that. They are simply increasing the power of the cube. At some point (if it hasn't happened already), it will degenerate the meta. Some guys like the brokenness you see in legacy/vintage (and if this is you, then by all means live well and prosper), but for me personally I don't want to play that type of magic.

2. Running the most powerful cards of all time is not inherently balanced. And the reason for that is simple and obvious - the most powerful cards are not in and of themselves balanced and they certainly aren't balanced with each other. So running all of them with impunity by default creates an unbalanced meta and the only way to achieve any semblance of balance is to speed the meta up so you hide the degenerate nature of what you're running. There's a reason guys are pushing aggro and lower and lower CMC curves in cube. This is an oversimplification of course, but the main point is valid.

For me at least, these two two things has made the "powermax" model a non-solution. I think lowering the power level (even if just a little) offers a lot of benefits (beyond the obvious increase in design space) and I think more people will see that over time.
 
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