Erik's "The cool side of Magic" cube

[Erik Twice]

It has been a while since I posted, but I'm still working on the cube. In fact, a couple people from my board games club have asked me to play it! So I decided to ask for your help.

1) I'm looking for ways to support decks with these three cards that I'm already running:



I have all the trinkets and little things but I wonder what decks you can really build with them. I always feel with them are good, but I don't know how to boost them a little, I think my approach (recurring small trinkets) is a bit limited.

2) I'm looking for ways to use these unfair cards in more decks:


3) I have a bunch of "meh" green cards I'm willing to replace. Any suggestions? Also, I'm not sure if Time Warp is doing anything.


I've been making some improvements here and there and I'm surprisingly fond of some of them like:

 

[Nanonox]

Could



be candidates? Emry triggers them with a cast, Tameshi returns an artifact card to hand and Welder can recur them if dead.

In the same vein, Breya’s Apprentive and Breya, Etherium Shaper are good to bounce to hand or cast/weld into play.



Not an actual suggestion because it does nothing with Welder, but a cool interaction with Tameshi and Emry.
Has me thinking that cards like



Might be what you are looking for, the Engine especially. You untap the Welder or Emry, then bounce with Tameshi to trigger Engine again.

 

[inscho]

Kappa Cannoneer is a freakin' HOUSE

 

[Erik Twice]

Kappa Cannoneer is fantastic, but I already run it!

 

[N0oh]

1) I'm looking for ways to support decks with these three cards that I'm already running:



I have all the trinkets and little things but I wonder what decks you can really build with them. I always feel with them are good, but I don't know how to boost them a little, I think my approach (recurring small trinkets) is a bit limited.
...

Some cards to play more with little things :



Edit : also :

 

[Erik Twice]

Some cards to play more with little things :

I would love to run Second Sunrise but I don't know how. Do you have any example decks for it?

 

[N0oh]

Decklist from a 4man draft, losing ot itself on mana or wining turn 4 with infinite thoper or 4/4 artifacts.



'Eggs' archetype shamelessly stolen from calebgannon vintage cube for mtgo some months ago, but adapted in non-powered environment. (https://calebgannon.com/2022/03/06/white-archetypes-in-my-powered-synergy-cube/#sunrise).

It's kinda parasitic in the same way that storm, but on the other hand, if you're already playing bloom/tinker/welder/strix/etc, the only fringe cards are sunrise, KCI and dance of the manse. I have yet to see Second Sunrise used for something else, it could be used in a wheenie sideboard against wrath, or for looping witness/infite damage with bloom and goblin bombardment, for example.

Edit : formating decklist is terrible

 

[Nanonox]

There are also some fun land things to do with it in the Naya colors.
You ramp a bit with Rampant Growth and company and then jam one of these



Sacrifice all your lands and then cast your Second Sunrise for a big ritual effect. Hopefully a Gitrog, Lotus Cobra or Titania can help you get even more value.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

It's gimmicky as shit but I run Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward in a Friendly Armageddons EDH deck. It may not be cube, but I can confirm they're both really sweet in lands.dec
The incidental crossover with aristocrats is kinda neat too, but a bit meh - it's cool if you run stuff like Cloudgoat Ranger, but way more feast-or-famine than the lands stuff, with a middling payoff.

 

[Erik Twice]

Question. Is this actually powerful or annoying?



It seems like it could be dumb

 

[Zoss]

It's powerful. LftL and pretty much all of the NEO lands get crazy together, and if you have a legendary creature on the board, you can forget about attacking into this. Or blocking productively. Or doing much of anything with creatures.

 

[safra]

That said, you can easily make a Loam player mill themselves out if they don't have a way to actually end the game.

 

[blacksmithy]

Decklist from a 4man draft, losing ot itself on mana or wining turn 4 with infinite thoper or 4/4 artifacts.



'Eggs' archetype shamelessly stolen from calebgannon vintage cube for mtgo some months ago, but adapted in non-powered environment. (https://calebgannon.com/2022/03/06/white-archetypes-in-my-powered-synergy-cube/#sunrise).

It's kinda parasitic in the same way that storm, but on the other hand, if you're already playing bloom/tinker/welder/strix/etc, the only fringe cards are sunrise, KCI and dance of the manse. I have yet to see Second Sunrise used for something else, it could be used in a wheenie sideboard against wrath, or for looping witness/infite damage with bloom and goblin bombardment, for example.

Edit : formating decklist is terrible

beautiful. making decks like this possible are why we run all that darn fixing

 

[Erik Twice]

Ok, I'm going to ask you for help. I feel my testing is getting increasingly inbred so I want to ask you a favour: Would you draft my cube?

If you can tell me which cards you missed from the archetypes you've drafted or any ideas you've had, that would be amazing. I just feel I'm spinning my wheels because I'm basing too many of my changes in how I play and draft and think things work instead of the actual reality for the players.

In return, I'll do the same with your cubes. Just tell me what you need and I'll do it!

 

[shamizy]

I just put in a couple of drafts earlier, all of them ending up with different decks:

UW Artifact Tempo

Wasn't quite sure where to go with this early after a P1P1 Stoneforge, but it ended up coming together nicely once I got the Saga and a few 1 drop options to hit. Route to victory is probably through a number of big Karnstructs and just pushing through damage on the ground. Decent amount of cards to generate some tempo with bounces and pushing through additional damage. Only thing I was looking for during draft after the Stoneforge was more equipment, I feel like a Maul of the Skyclaves would be pretty great. Pleased with how this one turned out.

RW Aggro

Low to the ground RW Aggro deck, got the early Champion of the Parish and wanted to see how far I could push it. Nice number of humans at lower CMC to flood the board early and I like the cheap interaction options to help clear out small blockers and apply pressure as well. I didn't feel like I was lacking for interaction throughout the draft. It got a little dicey when I didn't see any curve-toppers for a while, but the Showdown and the Cleave showed up late in pack 2/early in pack 3 and should work well in closing games out. If only I had the Adeline from the earlier draft; this could have been even crazier.

UR Artifacts

Very similar to the types of UR Artifact decks you can also build in my cube, seeing an early Retrofitter and a Daretti put me on this route. I can see the Nettlecyst putting in a lot of work in this kind of build. I'm usually looking for another impact artifact body once I get a Daretti but it looks like none of the other options aside from Battleball came my way. This might just end up being more a Midrange build and scrap that cheat idea entirely without enough ways to loot, though Converter might be good enough to bridge the gap. What I think this deck is missing is something like a Dismissive Pyromancer or a Goblin Engineer to really get it rolling.

GB Gaak

Initially I was thinking of some reanimation build when I picked Archon and Hogaak early on, but I didn't see an actual reanimation spell until the Reanimate came back around very late. In the meantime I settled into just a GB Midrange deck splashing a little blue for Uro and hoping to just get there with 3 drops that I can grow. The Hermit is what made me pivot as I could use those squirrels to convoke out a stranded Hogaak and really put in some pressure. In this kind of build I for sure want something like a Fauna Shaman to set up some big turns where I can tutor/pitch Hogaak and convoke it out all in one go.

All in all I like how these drafts turned out. I'd imagine it might just be luck of the pool that kept me from seeing certain types of cards necessary to make a given deck come together, but I do think the handful of cards I've mentioned would definitely help flesh these out. I didn't really struggle for any playables or have any diffculties identifying archetypes; nothing felt like a trap on first glance. I was able to freely pivot after a few picks if I saw certain things open up or if my initial plan didn't look like it would quite get there. The only advice I would give is adding another support piece here and there for improved density of effects.

Phew! Reformatting these lists have made realize that we really need to get CubeCobra to put in that Riptide Export format. I brought it up on their discord a week back, a ticket has been sitting for a year plus with no follow-up, but man it would help so much if we could just easily have a ready to post list. Y'all think there's some way to expedite it? I think if enough people request it we might actually be able to get some traction and I can't imagine it would be all that difficult seeing as CubeTutor had it available from the get-go years ago.

 

[Nanonox]

Here are my takes since you asked for opinions. Missing cards



It's a cantrip like effect that you can play in your low curving decks, but it also a great synergy piece for the artifact decks. Welder, Emry, P&K can all put it to good use. Then Tameshi, Serra Paragon and co can abuse it since it’s a leave the battlefield trigger.



I think @shamizy is right on about Fauna Shaman, and I think your Green section could really use some discard effects. The color doesn't have a ton of options (you already run the best in Survival of the Fittest), but they fit into many archetypes.
The classic Hogaak deck loves them.
You could make an aggressive lands deck where you use Life from the Loam to fuel your Mongrel.
Then there is the discard matters deck. With colorless payoffs like Currency Converter, Containment Construct and Hollow One, the discard outlets would be perfect in your cube.

If you do decide that the discard cards are indeed worth it, then the Rootwallas allow you to set up some explosive draws as they are hopefully free. You can set up some sweet chains with Survival and Vengevine.

That's all I have for now, hope it gets your brain working!

 

[Erik Twice]

Thanks a lot for the drafts guys!

Only thing I was looking for during draft after the Stoneforge was more equipment, I feel like a Maul of the Skyclaves would be pretty great.

Something I've learnt is that there's more demand for equipment than I thought. I should absolutely run Maul of the Skyclaves, I cut it to try Brought Back and Kor Haven and it's absolutely more deserving of the slot than both.

I'm usually looking for another impact artifact body once I get a Daretti but it looks like none of the other options aside from Battleball came my way.

You didn't find it because there isn't one. As I added more X-costed creatures, I cut some of the artifact top end , which means it's my only real fatty right now. This has made Daretti and, particularly, Sneak Attack much worse. Any suggestions? Looking on Scryfall, these are the options I like this most, though the second is fairly underpowered:

All in all I like how these drafts turned out. I'd imagine it might just be luck of the pool that kept me from seeing certain types of cards necessary to make a given deck come together, but I do think the handful of cards I've mentioned would definitely help flesh these out. I didn't really struggle for any playables or have any diffculties identifying archetypes; nothing felt like a trap on first glance. I was able to freely pivot after a few picks if I saw certain things open up or if my initial plan didn't look like it would quite get there. The only advice I would give is adding another support piece here and there for improved density of effects.

I'm glad to hear that! I do think you were a bit unlucky, since my cube is very small (386 cards) but you still missed some of the support.

Phew! Reformatting these lists have made realize that we really need to get CubeCobra to put in that Riptide Export format. I brought it up on their discord a week back, a ticket has been sitting for a year plus with no follow-up, but man it would help so much if we could just easily have a ready to post list. Y'all think there's some way to expedite it? I think if enough people request it we might actually be able to get some traction and I can't imagine it would be all that difficult seeing as CubeTutor had it available from the get-go years ago.

If you tell us how to do it, I can jump in and ask for it. It shouldn't be too difficult to implement and it would be massive for the forum.

Here are my takes since you asked for opinions. Missing cards



It's a cantrip like effect that you can play in your low curving decks, but it also a great synergy piece for the artifact decks. Welder, Emry, P&K can all put it to good use. Then Tameshi, Serra Paragon and co can abuse it since it’s a leave the battlefield trigger.

I didn't notice it also triggers when it leaves the battlefield. I do wonder if my artifact deck is oversupported, though. It seems they appear much more often than other decks.

I think @shamizy is right on about Fauna Shaman, and I think your Green section could really use some discard effects. The color doesn't have a ton of options (you already run the best in Survival of the Fittest), but they fit into many archetypes.
The classic Hogaak deck loves them.
You could make an aggressive lands deck where you use Life from the Loam to fuel your Mongrel.
Then there is the discard matters deck. With colorless payoffs like Currency Converter, Containment Construct and Hollow One, the discard outlets would be perfect in your cube.

If you do decide that the discard cards are indeed worth it, then the Rootwallas allow you to set up some explosive draws as they are hopefully free. You can set up some sweet chains with Survival and Vengevine.

I used to run these guys in Green, but I ended up cutting them. The problem is that you do have the discard effects, but you don't have any real payoffs. So you end up using Green as a second fiddle to Red, Blue and Black and it ended up being a trap. I know Inscho does it, but I never managed to get it to truly work. Of course, that was before I added the colorless discard package so who knows?

 

[Erik Twice]

I truly appreciate all your drafts because you show me what's possible, what I was overvaluing, what I was not, etc. Some thoughts:

1) You pick far more fixing than I do and do not move into three colours as often. This is the right move, I'm just greedy and undervalued the power of three different fetches targetting the same dual.

2) I overvalue counterspells, you pick them much lower and often choose to run more proactive cards instead.

3) You guys really like Hoogak. I keep forgetting about him, and I shouldn't! Most notable, I see it too often as a graveyard card when it's actually very strong with tokens. You also like Nested Shambler andrun equipment more often in non-white decks. It also seems Yawg-win is more popular and less parasitic than I thought it to be.



4) I absolutely underrate Delve control decks, like this one drafted by Inscho (https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/6348717ac898db3abe2c8b31). I don't think I've ever truly drafted them. Adding Tasigur was a huge boon, I think.



5) You run slighty less interaction. I think I pick too many kill spells instead of proactive cards.

6) I am very glad Kodama of the West Tree has made it in a couple lists. I think it's a cool build-around. I reall like this decklist by Dom, which is close to what I wanted the card/archetype to look like (https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/63485e45c898db3abe2b0d92). Interestingly, he didn't draft any equipment.

Some other cards I undervalue are:


It's not that I think they are bad, but that I see them as being much narrower than they actually are.

7) I run too many spells in green and greatly overvalue them. Again, instead of running a bunch of "do-nothing" cantrips, you prefer actual creatures. You weren't in a rush to take Abundant Harvest and Traverse the Underwald.

 

[safra]

I drafted two beautiful Storm decks.

UB Tendrils

Grixis YawgWin

I feel like both Storm decks have enough action going on, but are reliant on YawgWill / Wheel / Jar as 'draw-7s' in order to get the density of cards required. I'd like to see a copy of Underworld Breach to act as a kind of 'currency converter' between cards-in-graveyard/mana/cards-in-hand, but otherwise I'm quite happy with the CA engines available to either of these lists. (Tinker for Bolas' Citadel in particular.)

RE: your Storm archetype:
-Tendrils and Brain Freeze are both great kills. Brain Freeze with Thassa's Oracle is a very different kind of gameplay experience than 'Brain Freeze you for lethal' is, and it's one that I think is more fun for both players, to boot.
-I can't imagine Mind's Desire or Grapeshot being as satisfying or consistent - I don't think I saw any red rituals, btw - but if there ARE red rituals and I Just Didn't See Them, then I think either of these decks would have played them and/or an Empty the Warrens.
-I'd like maybe one more ritual available. Whether it's a red spell or an efficient artifact doesn't matter to me - "Storm players don't even see cardtype anymore, we just see mana, resource acquisition, recursion" - but I think these decks are much more likely to be constrained on the access of available burst mana than anything else.

 

[shamizy]

Something I've learnt is that there's more demand for equipment than I thought. I should absolutely run Maul of the Skyclaves, I cut it to try Brought Back and Kor Haven and it's absolutely more deserving of the slot than both.

For myself, once I see a Stoneforge Mystic early enough I will then be on on the lookout for any and all equipment to maximize it. You've got some big targets there with the likes of Grafted Wargear and Embercleave that I'm happy to see in just about every aggressive deck, but I wanted to see just like one other top-end option if I'm mostly in white. Batterskull is the classic but Maul of the Skyclaves is one I actually like more for pure aggro decks. Being able to push in 4-5 damage in the air is pretty big game when it comes to turning the corner and finishing out a game. It also gives enough a boost + keywords that midrange decks would also be interested in it.

Another option that might be worth checking out is Greatsword of Tyr which I'm trying to find a slot for currently. I've always like cards that let you tap down blockers for W/x Aggro decks and this probably plays much better than it reads. I have fond memories of Goblin Heelcutter just kicking a whole lot of ass back in FRF Limited and in my cube years ago. Being able to crunch in when your opponent thinks they've stabilize is such big game for aggressive decks so I tend to value this effect very highly.

You didn't find it because there isn't one. As I added more X-costed creatures, I cut some of the artifact top end , which means it's my only real fatty right now. This has made Daretti and, particularly, Sneak Attack much worse. Any suggestions?

It's a big body on the ground, worth cheating in with both Daretti and Sneak Attack, 9 mana and colorless makes it potentially castable for green ramp decks, and it leaves behind bodies if it eats a non-exile kill spell. It's easy to understand on first read and Encore will be relevant once in a blue moon. I like it much more than clunkier options you see in cubes like Ancient Stone Idol which just reads like a mess. A 9/9 is a big body to rumble on the floor and splitting into three 3/3 bodies makes perfect sense to drafters new and old. Big fan of this card.

If you tell us how to do it, I can jump in and ask for it. It shouldn't be too difficult to implement and it would be massive for the forum.

I'm a patron and have access to the Cobra discord so I just brought it up in the feature request section. Not quite sure how else to reach them, might just have to wait till their next big update post on reddit, but I feel like if we had enough people asking for it we could probably get it set up.

 

[Mown]

I went in mostly blind and drafted a pile for you. Don't think too hard about my picks, because I certainly didn't. I think I skipped over a crucible because I forgot I had a fastbond, among other things.

I'm a patron and have access to the Cobra discord so I just brought it up in the feature request section. Not quite sure how else to reach them, might just have to wait till their next big update post on reddit, but I feel like if we had enough people asking for it we could probably get it set up.

Remind me next week and I'll see if I can take a look at their codebase and make a pull request.

 

[Nanonox]

Could this be the equipment and artifact fatty your are missing? You lose on Sneak Attack, but Welder and Daretti still pick it up. As does Tinker. It hits hard, but doesn't close the game up immediately giving opponent a chance to respond.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

7) I run too many spells in green and greatly overvalue them. Again, instead of running a bunch of "do-nothing" cantrips, you prefer actual creatures. You weren't in a rush to take Abundant Harvest and Traverse the Underwald.

I think these cards are really strong in a deck that isn't in your Cube. If you had more of the delve/self-mill/delirium stuff these would be pretty important cards.

 

[Erik Twice]

Could this be the equipment and artifact fatty your are missing? You lose on Sneak Attack, but Welder and Daretti still pick it up. As does Tinker. It hits hard, but doesn't close the game up immediately giving opponent a chance to respond.

It's too powerful with Stoneforge Mystic and I would rather keep it. I also don't like indestructible. I know that, pound for pound, there are stronger things to cheat in my cube, but, at least, they can be interacted with.

 

[Erik Twice]

I think these cards are really strong in a deck that isn't in your Cube. If you had more of the delve/self-mill/delirium stuff these would be pretty important cards.

That's probably true. I just never got the payoffs I wanted in green, so I don't run them. Not sure if I'm missing out.