If you would only run one, which one would you run and why?
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
If you would only run one, which one would you run and why?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The Skirge is better with ninja's, equipment, and other pump effects.
My opinion is typically wrong, but Benalish Marshal all day. While Honor of the Pure is resilient being an enchantment, and thus harder to remove by opponents, it's also a terrible topdeck on an empty board. Marshal is a 3/3 Body for three that contributes to swinging along with the rest of the field, which is where you want to be when pressuring the opponent's life total when playing an aggro archetype. In addition, the Marshal is not a racist... er, by that I mean if your mana base supports adding another color, the Marshal will other colored creatures as well, which Honor fails to do. I'll admit this last point is subjective, but I think a Triple-White casting cost is more of a signpost to push towards mono-white than Honor of the Pure.
I imaging this will vary depending on the quality of creatures and removal you are running, or the power band of your overall cube (I'd look at your cube, but CubeTutor is crapping the bed again...). But to me it's no real competition (hell I'm still trying to figure out how to squeeze Marshal in my cube).
I imaging this will vary depending on the quality of creatures and removal you are running, or the power band of your overall cube (I'd look at your cube, but CubeTutor is crapping the bed again...). But to me it's no real competition (hell I'm still trying to figure out how to squeeze Marshal in my cube).
of the two, Marshal, but what about:I'm consindering to add a payoff for the mono white weenie deck. Which one would you prefer and why?
which comes down as a finisher, has cute interactions with Alesha/'Llark, and is actually castable
Chris Taylor
Contributor
You might not need to lean in as hard into the Mono part of white weenie as you think
In the defensive blue spells-matter 2 drop category...
VS.
Thinking about trimming one of these because Fae of Wishes plays in the same space, and Snapcaster Mage is staying of course.
VS. Thinking about trimming one of these because Fae of Wishes plays in the same space, and Snapcaster Mage is staying of course.
Most Convincing Post 2019
Marshal if your mana can support it. Otherwise, neither. Honor doesn't do anything for me.
TITI if you're looking for raw power, which it sounds like you are.
Thanks for all the answers guys, we're going to test Benalish Marshal!
I had him the cube once and I was pretty disappointed. Maybe it wasn't the right environment, but we run the classic Glorious Anthem and he just was that effect for one more mana and much easier to remove. It just felt bad and that made him go late a lot and sleep in sideboards. Got it, sleep? Anyone?
What do you mean with that? For this card choice or the archetype in general?
These decks are often light on threats, so I would prefer to give one of the few creature slots to something that can actually win you games. Barrel can go off I guess, but he seems to need a more specific deck to actually be as good as Thing or even better. And in that deck, Thing would still be nice.
of the two, Marshal, but what about:
I had him the cube once and I was pretty disappointed. Maybe it wasn't the right environment, but we run the classic Glorious Anthem and he just was that effect for one more mana and much easier to remove. It just felt bad and that made him go late a lot and sleep in sideboards. Got it, sleep? Anyone?
What do you mean with that? For this card choice or the archetype in general?
In the defensive blue spells-matter 2 drop category...
Thinking about trimming one of these because Fae of Wishes plays in the same space, and Snapcaster Mage is staying of course.
These decks are often light on threats, so I would prefer to give one of the few creature slots to something that can actually win you games. Barrel can go off I guess, but he seems to need a more specific deck to actually be as good as Thing or even better. And in that deck, Thing would still be nice.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Kongming is a great card for white weeinie
Honor the pure is a great card for mono white weenie
Do you really need the anthem to also demand you're not playing another color? I find them niche enough as it is
Honor the pure is a great card for mono white weenie
Do you really need the anthem to also demand you're not playing another color? I find them niche enough as it is
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I've always been attached to:
I wouldn't call them narrow. Like, 90% of the white decks in my meta are creature decks and while not a super high priority for all, these decks would all like to pick up and play them. Aggro and tokens even love them.
And to the other point, I agree with you, that narrowness is more often a downside than an upside, and we should all aim for a cube with most card being really flexible tools. But there is a 'too much'. Imagine the abstract example of a cube where every card goes into every deck of or's color, like all lightning bolts. That would lead to a pretty uninteresting draft environment.
Narrowness has upsides. You are right, why would you make people draft mono white? There are dozend of great arguments to go into boros gowide aggro or into the orzhov lifegain aggro or even draft selesnya tokens/aggro or an azorius tempo deck maybe. So a card like Glorious Anthem would not pull you into mono white in most drafts, because you just saw that Skyknight Vanguard or something. How often in a draft does it happen, that you just feel pulled into one color? If you want monocolor decks be a regular thing, I think you should make them tempting in some way.
For example I support black devotion as an archetype with 6 cards that get better in mono black, two of them even unplayable in anything with less than 16 swamps. People would just not not go into mono black, limiting the pool of cards they can pick and play during the draft, if it wasn't for tempting payoffs like Crypt Ghast. Just like people would not go out of their way and draft a deck with 16 instants/sorceries if there wasn't that Rise from the Tides. Without narrow cards people would just draft good stuff decks.
So a card like Benalish Marshall now can lead people to draft a deck they wouldn't otherwise - if it is tempting enough in the meta. Momo white plays and feels different to boros or orzhov, so it's cool to have that additional variance. That was my thought behind that fight club - without creating a larger archetype around this, like I have in black. Of course you can't have too many cards like that, since they will make too many dead cards in packs quickly. But a few narrower build around cards, that can by their own make people draft a little different, make a cube meta better in my opinion.
I've made the same positive experience with Vernal Bloom as my only card really encouraging going mono green.
I want white to have a few card advantage spells and I'm having a tough time chose between the following.
I have room for 2 of the 4 and right now, I'm leaning towards Bishop and Bugler mainly because their bodies are way better than the other 2 (having a board presence in multiplayer games is important!). I do not have human synergies, so that isn't a factor.
Mentor:
Works with blink and tokens
Crappy body
Need to pay the mana upfront
Can draw a ton of cards
Recruiter:
Works with blink
Super crappy body
No extra mana
Can tutor for some sweet cards (Angel of Invention, Snapcaster Mage, Braids, Cabal Minion, Flametongue Kavu, Tireless Tracker, ...)
Bishop:
Good body
Artifact synergy
No extra mana upfront
Lower ceiling
Bugler:
Works with blink
Good body
Card drawn right away
No extra mana upfront
Vigilance (big game in MP)
Lower ceiling
I'm 90% sure about Bugler, but less convinced about Bishop. I'd like recruiter to be good enough, but it might be too slow/fragile. Thoughts for a higher powered cube?
Another one:
VS
I have a few artifact synergies (Steel Overseer) and a few flying synergies (Serra the Benevolent). I imagine I'm casting these at 4 mana both most of the time. Is the extra free spell worth losing flying and sometimes casting Procession for 3 mana?
I have room for 2 of the 4 and right now, I'm leaning towards Bishop and Bugler mainly because their bodies are way better than the other 2 (having a board presence in multiplayer games is important!). I do not have human synergies, so that isn't a factor.
Mentor:
Works with blink and tokens
Crappy body
Need to pay the mana upfront
Can draw a ton of cards
Recruiter:
Works with blink
Super crappy body
No extra mana
Can tutor for some sweet cards (Angel of Invention, Snapcaster Mage, Braids, Cabal Minion, Flametongue Kavu, Tireless Tracker, ...)
Bishop:
Good body
Artifact synergy
No extra mana upfront
Lower ceiling
Bugler:
Works with blink
Good body
Card drawn right away
No extra mana upfront
Vigilance (big game in MP)
Lower ceiling
I'm 90% sure about Bugler, but less convinced about Bishop. I'd like recruiter to be good enough, but it might be too slow/fragile. Thoughts for a higher powered cube?
Another one:
VS I have a few artifact synergies (Steel Overseer) and a few flying synergies (Serra the Benevolent). I imagine I'm casting these at 4 mana both most of the time. Is the extra free spell worth losing flying and sometimes casting Procession for 3 mana?
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I like Bishop quite a bit since the extra toughness and Flying is a substantial upgrade over just being a 2/2 and my white creature decks often want to return/replay creatures (Glint Hawk/Kor Skyfisher/Stonecloaker) so you can rack up Clues easily
I want white to have a few card advantage spells and I'm having a tough time chose between the following.
I have room for 2 of the 4 and right now, I'm leaning towards Bishop and Bugler mainly because their bodies are way better than the other 2 (having a board presence in multiplayer games is important!). I do not have human synergies, so that isn't a factor.
I'm 90% sure about Bugler, but less convinced about Bishop. I'd like recruiter to be good enough, but it might be too slow/fragile. Thoughts for a higher powered cube?
I'd go with Recruiter of the Guard and Bygone Bishop.
Recruiter of the Guard is insanely powerful. This card is basically Demonic Tutor for Death and Taxes style decks with a 1/1 attached. A lot of the best value dudes in magic have 2 or less toughness. In addition to the cards you named, Recruiter can grab stuff like Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Goblin Rabblemaster, Eternal Witness, Scavenging Ooze, and a plethora of other decent toolbox style cards like Reclamation Sage. On face value, I would say Recruiter of the Guard is a strong option. However, the card also has some really gross synergies which cause it to go from being a "cute tutor effect" to "the engine of a whole deck." Consider Recruiter of the Guard and Soulherder. You can tutor for the herder with the recruiter, and then get a free re-roll on your recruiter trigger ever turn. It's pretty hard for the opponent to come back from that, since you can basically always get an answer to what their doing from then on out. Even just combining Recruiter of the Guard with a Flickerwisp or Charming Prince is pretty gross.
I think Dom is correct with his assessment of Bygone Bishop. The only thing I'd add to that statement is the Bishop has evasion, so he can be used to help weenie decks close out the game in a way neither Mentor nor Bugler can.
I think Bishop is significantly better than Mentor of the Meek, both in power level and for cube. The difference is larger than it appears because Mentor of the Meek is surprisingly weak.
1) Being a 2/2, Mentor won't be able to attack very often. It can do it in a pinch, but those situations are not common. This makes him compare rather poorly with actual card draw, which draws more cards without delay and isn't attached to a creature. Bishop can fly, can block and matters as an actual card on the board.
2) Paying 1 to draw is significantly worse than creating a Clue. It's very hard to both curve out and draw with Mentor and you'll often find yourself in situations where you either wait a turn or don't draw a card.
3) The artifacy synergies are very relevant. Boros aggro is easy to support and fun.
4) Flying gives Bishop equipment synergies. White always welcomes flyers and it easier to lean into other colours, like blue.
1) Being a 2/2, Mentor won't be able to attack very often. It can do it in a pinch, but those situations are not common. This makes him compare rather poorly with actual card draw, which draws more cards without delay and isn't attached to a creature. Bishop can fly, can block and matters as an actual card on the board.
2) Paying 1 to draw is significantly worse than creating a Clue. It's very hard to both curve out and draw with Mentor and you'll often find yourself in situations where you either wait a turn or don't draw a card.
3) The artifacy synergies are very relevant. Boros aggro is easy to support and fun.
4) Flying gives Bishop equipment synergies. White always welcomes flyers and it easier to lean into other colours, like blue.
I wanna make a stand for Mentor here. It's ceiling is much higher than Bishops and I think he's better in midrange. I prefer it mainly because it works with two things that are really big in my and many other white sections: Tokens and Blink.
Repeatable token producers like Sacred Mesa/Bitterblossom/Squirrel Nest or whatever you run at your power level, they all turn into absurd draw engines. Even simple stuff like Raise the Alarm becomes a better, white Inspiration.
And Blink loves this guy too, as he makes your value grinding match plan so much stronger. Blinking Lone Missionary is great already,but try blinking something that makes tokens on EtB and draw 2-3 cards from it. That's a good feeling.
Bishop is better for aggro, but I'd go with mentor because he draws more cards, and that's the goal of MtG, right?
Repeatable token producers like Sacred Mesa/Bitterblossom/Squirrel Nest or whatever you run at your power level, they all turn into absurd draw engines. Even simple stuff like Raise the Alarm becomes a better, white Inspiration.
And Blink loves this guy too, as he makes your value grinding match plan so much stronger. Blinking Lone Missionary is great already,but try blinking something that makes tokens on EtB and draw 2-3 cards from it. That's a good feeling.
Bishop is better for aggro, but I'd go with mentor because he draws more cards, and that's the goal of MtG, right?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Why not both? Card advantage is hard enough to come by in white!
Yeah, I run mentor, Bishop and Bugler. I really like the ca they bring to white.