General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Trinket Mage is a cube bastion, but i am seriously considering swapping him out for Tribute Mage based on number of targets.
Is anyone else running alternate or even multiple?
In my opinion it goes exactly in order you have listed when it comes to how good they are in a cube if you're running Sword of Dungeons & Dragons and friends.
I would personally love to switch Pithing Needle to Sorcerous Spyglass but there are just so many good 0 and 1 cost artifacts to run in cube.
It also feels a little unfair
Trinket can fetch 0 and 1
Tribute can fetch 2
Trophy can fetch 3
Treasure can fetch 6 and up
If we could smash Tribute and Trophy together..
I would personally love to switch Pithing Needle to Sorcerous Spyglass but there are just so many good 0 and 1 cost artifacts to run in cube.
It also feels a little unfair
Trinket can fetch 0 and 1
Tribute can fetch 2
Trophy can fetch 3
Treasure can fetch 6 and up
If we could smash Tribute and Trophy together..
I may make some excuse to run both XD
Here’s another fight:
Here’s another fight:
Resilient Khenra is definitely stronger, but they fill more of an aggro glue, I usually would see them in a Naya aggro list with the eternalize pushing for those last few points of damage on a trampler. When it finds its home in midrange the pump doesn't have much of an effect, but I have seen the times when it makes blocking really annoying or the recipient needs to devote more resources than they want to.
Mother Bear is a lot more tame in comparison.
Another lookalike is
Which is a lot better than it looks cuz you can get it back multiple times
Not sure if you're looking for green graveyard shenanigans or something that fits in both aggro and midrange,
For the former these are only as scary as how fast you can fill the graveyard
and if it's the latter I love
Mother Bear is a lot more tame in comparison.
Another lookalike is
Which is a lot better than it looks cuz you can get it back multiple times
Not sure if you're looking for green graveyard shenanigans or something that fits in both aggro and midrange,
For the former these are only as scary as how fast you can fill the graveyard
and if it's the latter I love
Resilient Khenra is definitely stronger ... Mother Bear is a lot more tame in comparison.
Another lookalike is
For the former these are only as scary as how fast you can fill the graveyard
I just added Mother Bear as a graveyard-synergy addition over Masked Admirers, but the Resilient Khenra is very tempting. I may consider adding it instead of Motherbear (and add a wolf-token-generator, see cardfight below) to not have multiple creature type tokens per arbitrary restriction... nice find!
Context:
162-card, peasant-power, nonblue grid with some restrictions:
- no +1/+1 counters
- limited tokens (try to not have same P/T for multiple types of tokens in a token color)
- attempt to keep to "cheap" cards - a few $ to acquire, think pennypincher cube
The grid loosely is a graveyard/enchantment synergy base with a lot of throughput (cycling, card selection, cantrips). In an attempt to slow down green in the redzone, I think I have to cut nostalgic favorite Werebear for a creature that isn't as impactful as a 4/4 on the board for the bargain cost of 2 mana. The following are up for consideration:
My thoughts are geared toward a 2cmc ramping spell that doesn't attack effectively or at all (and doesn't color fix outside of green):
- Wolfwillow Haven - I like this a lot as it subtly checks a lot of boxes (enchantment, graveyard synergies, ramps, converts to "card" that impacts the board for 4g), but I dislike the idea of having wolf and bear tokens per the arbitrary constraint, hence consideration if Mother Bear becomes Resilient Khenra).
- Llanowar Scout - can be a ramp spell if the deck has enough land drops (aka or draws enough cards); plays nicely with the 6 Rav block bounce lands (Gruul Turf, etc.)
- Leafkin Druid - wall-ish creature that can wear auras/equipment/etc. and attack it that's what the job demands! Also, the double-ramp plays into RG's identity, but I doubt it triggers.
- Druid of the Cowl - boring mana dork with 1/3 stats. Can attack.
- Overgrown Battlement - boring mana dork with 0/4 stats. CanNOT attack. Defender bonus when paired with Rage Nimbus in red.
- Explore - Cycling but without the key word. This isn't always ramp, similar to Llanowar Scout.
- Nature's Lore - Played with this before and didn't like it, but I am including it again because if only finds forests.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I quite happily run Treasure Mage in my own cube, it's the only one that searches up the mana curve, and its targets are always impactful.
Trinket Mage is a cube bastion, but i am seriously considering swapping him out for Tribute Mage based on number of targets.
Is anyone else running alternate or even multiple?
Regarding the ramp cardfight above, it sounds like you need something simple that won’t turn sideways for damage, and if that’s what you need, Nature’s Lore and Explore are no-brainers for me. Battlement is cool but might give a false signal; Scout just looks bad tbh; Haven is oddly complicated. The 0/3 and 1/3 are tied for third place for me, as they are nice blockers but poor attackers.
Wolfwillow or Leafkin are the only ones that do anything somewhat interesting. They give you a little more decision making in either your play or your draft.
I'm a bit worried about the 3 toughness for your aggro decks, considering there's basically no 1-drops in the whole grid, but I didn't look into it too deeply. Just a thought.
I'm a bit worried about the 3 toughness for your aggro decks, considering there's basically no 1-drops in the whole grid, but I didn't look into it too deeply. Just a thought.
Treasure mage sounds pretty cool in a UG ramp deck with artifact fatties honestly!
Thanks, everyone, for the inputs! I think the Wolfhaven Willow will get another chance. If Nature's Lore cycled, I would be sooooo tempted. I might give drafters the choice between Explore and Haven for a while to get further insight.
I should've mentioned that I am trying to keep to colored-costed cycling in black and green (so that red-white doesn't become too much like Ikoria limited). Dissenter's Deliverance is a concession to Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws being rough opposition for the (black-)green graveyard decks, but is often goes unpicked unless the cycling synergy is useful. My current assumption is grid can support a small percentage of match-up-based playables, like Village Rites to counter Threaten effects/removal auras or Saving Grace versus red decks.
That being said, I will definitely keep an eye on Dissenter's Dev (and make the swap if it seems green could use another enchantment destruction spell or red-white would benefit from the cycler for 2 generic mana)!
I should've mentioned that I am trying to keep to colored-costed cycling in black and green (so that red-white doesn't become too much like Ikoria limited). Dissenter's Deliverance is a concession to Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws being rough opposition for the (black-)green graveyard decks, but is often goes unpicked unless the cycling synergy is useful. My current assumption is grid can support a small percentage of match-up-based playables, like Village Rites to counter Threaten effects/removal auras or Saving Grace versus red decks.
That being said, I will definitely keep an eye on Dissenter's Dev (and make the swap if it seems green could use another enchantment destruction spell or red-white would benefit from the cycler for 2 generic mana)!
I’m running the Vivids and a set of 5 all-color lands next to my 20 Evolving Wilds... But there are 6 rainbow lands up for those 5 spots! What’s your least favorite and why?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
No thought to:
?
Honestly all those have major issues.
-Even the most creature heavy deck usually has something else in draft for Zig
-Holdout Settlement is a catch 22 of needing to have cast a spell to cast your spells
-Cave of Temptation is limo bar low power level
-Paliano is a lot of work/memory for a random tri land, especially since you can end up with colors you don't need.
-Exotic Orchard would work well with a higher vivid count, but I'm not convinced if your opponent is just running evolving wilds.
-Crumbling Vestige is okay, but it demands a lot of specific timing, and just doesn't work if you need to cast 2 spells in a row.
?
Honestly all those have major issues.
-Even the most creature heavy deck usually has something else in draft for Zig
-Holdout Settlement is a catch 22 of needing to have cast a spell to cast your spells
-Cave of Temptation is limo bar low power level
-Paliano is a lot of work/memory for a random tri land, especially since you can end up with colors you don't need.
-Exotic Orchard would work well with a higher vivid count, but I'm not convinced if your opponent is just running evolving wilds.
-Crumbling Vestige is okay, but it demands a lot of specific timing, and just doesn't work if you need to cast 2 spells in a row.
i really don’t want good 5-color fixing in the cube, as all my other fixing comes in tapped (wilds, bounce, scry, gain, man, vivid).
but you make a good point that maybe these are all just TOO bad! i could certainly use the slots for either spells or utility lands. or more wilds.
but you make a good point that maybe these are all just TOO bad! i could certainly use the slots for either spells or utility lands. or more wilds.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Wait, I've got it:
This thing isn't great unless you can use it more than once most of the time, but proliferate, bouncelands, or other energy cards (Hey maybe there's something) would let you
This thing isn't great unless you can use it more than once most of the time, but proliferate, bouncelands, or other energy cards (Hey maybe there's something) would let you
after pondering this some more, i do believe i will just take out the cycle of 5c fixing. the vivids can stay because they’re cute and can be proliferated or bounced for value, but like i said, a critical analysis confirms that 5c spots 5-10 are probably better used on cool spells or utility lands.
(i do kind of want to make a cube where the interaction between Crumbling Vestige and bouncelands is a real thing though)
(i do kind of want to make a cube where the interaction between Crumbling Vestige and bouncelands is a real thing though)
Plays out excellent! This is the least least favorite. My favorite!
In the store a friend of mine first picked this land in Pack 1 and asked “Which colors am I?” So funny
Also the card is fairly strong since it is not a triland in the traditional sense that people think of when they say triland. This one enters the battlefield untapped. Even when drafted in the third pack you are going to often end up with a regular dual land that can’t be fetched.
My least favorite is Ancient Ziggurat. I can’t imagine a deck that wants this. I think I feel the same way about Holdout Settlement.
Cave of Temptation is surprisingly cool and can do some flexible tricks. However you need to be below average power level. I use it for the starter decks in my deck-builder format and people have fun with it because it can do some unusual things like push for lethal damage with Walking Ballista or sacrifice to draw two additional cards with Return of the Wildspeaker. Grand Coliseum is also in the starter decks.
The really powerful ones are: City of Brass and Mana Confluence. This is a design decision. How well do you want your 3, 4 and 5-colored decks to be supported?
I would not run either Aether Hub or Crumbling Vestige since they are both low powered and also doesn’t enable multicolored decks. Fixing your mana once is low value if you are left with a land worse than a Basic land afterwards.
“Exotic Orchard is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you’re gonna get.”
Not really my thing unless you have several opponents.
My advice:
- Test Paliano, the High City no matter what power level you are at. Remember to watch Game of Thrones if you haven’t already!
- Test City of Brass and Mana Confluence if you want to support many-colored decks.
- Test Cave of Temptation if you are low power.
thanks for the analysis!
my cube already runs 20-40 Evolving Wilds as the main fixing support, so anything i put on top of that and the dual cycles will be pretty marginal. i think i’m better off focusing on the manabase interactions i originally designed the cube around (wilds and bounce + etb duals) rather than spending slots on either generically powerful or cute but bad alternatives to that core manabase.
my cube already runs 20-40 Evolving Wilds as the main fixing support, so anything i put on top of that and the dual cycles will be pretty marginal. i think i’m better off focusing on the manabase interactions i originally designed the cube around (wilds and bounce + etb duals) rather than spending slots on either generically powerful or cute but bad alternatives to that core manabase.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Also wait, no thought towards reflecting pool? Pairing with your own vivids is at least more interesting than trying to line up exotic orchard with your opponents
(And yes more powerful)
(And yes more powerful)
Yeah, i actually had it on my original short list, but i didn’t think about the Vivid interaction and cut it because Exotic Orchard has cooler art XD
Doubling down on cutting all of these though! It’s just like Brad said, Wilds good, others bad! (except vivids)
And here’s a new fight:
I think Shaman wins handily in my list due to few sac outlets in UGR, but still want to soak up some good discussion on these two and the different roles they can play in a cube.
Doubling down on cutting all of these though! It’s just like Brad said, Wilds good, others bad! (except vivids)
And here’s a new fight:
I think Shaman wins handily in my list due to few sac outlets in UGR, but still want to soak up some good discussion on these two and the different roles they can play in a cube.
correction, cooler art than MY reflecting pool XD