General Fight Club

[Aston]

Force kind of has a place in decks where you can tap out for a threat and then protect it for a turn. It also plays really well with cards like Vial Smasher and Rashmi, Eternities Crafter if you play any of those.

That said, it's not essential and I would cut the effect completely before putting in Pact of Negation which is just not what most cube decks are looking for.

 

[Mondschwein]

vs

Which one do you prefer? Especially in low-mid powered cubes.
Tatyova would get support from bouncelands, while Gitrog loves Ash Barrens (which I prefer over EWilds and TExpanse as I support cycling heavily, but landfall not that much).

 

[sigh]

If "low-mid" isn't too low, The Gitrog Monster for sure. Just a much more interesting line of play with Gitrog than with Tatyova in my opinion.

Note that Gitrog also benefits from Bouncelands thanks to the "you can play an extra land a turn".

 

[ravnic]

The Gitrog stat monster is quite a lot for low-mid power. Tatyova isn't quite that strong in cube. But in general I wuld ask myself what you want to support more, loam or landfall? If the answer is both, Gitrog has more synergy potential from different angles.

 

[Mondschwein]

I'd like to support lands.dec as a kind of value deck (temur + either white or black). There are some landfall cards that will/could find their way into the (somewhat) final list, but I won't have a possible 'have as many lands enter the battlefield in one turn as possible' kind of deck (Ash Barrens > Evolving Wilds in my cube, because cycling/discard matter). Short: Loam > Landfall, although there are some value landfall cards/midrangey cards. I'm just not quite sure if Gitrog will end up too strong, as I power my cube down far enough so combat tricks are viable, so heroic* could be a thing and werewolves* also. on the other hand, Gitrog is a gold card, and as such I like them to be a bit stronger.

Really need to put down a prototype of my list so people can evaluate.

**they have some crossover with spellslingers/flash

 

[ravnic]

It sounds like an environment where a 6/6 deathtouch for 5 with much more upside than downside (barely any) could be pretty scary. I'd give it a test maybe, as it is a fun card. I'd maybe cube it if it were a 4/4 or something like that. That being said, as soon as you start shifting your cube to justify it, cut it.

 

[Nanonox]

There is a fight I'd like some insight on. I would like an extra combat card for my high power multiplayer cube (curve is lower than a traditional battlecruiser cube). I think they are pretty fun and can surprise win the games sometimes. 2 options I am considering:



Waves is narrow (no body attached), but is hybrid (opening the effect to white aggressive decks) and can be pitched early and still be played later on.

Moraug has an insane ceiling with fetches and such, but is asking you to have extra lands while casting a 6 drop. He does boost the team the turn he ETBs, but I am afraid he is a Gruul card more than anything else.

I am leaning towards Waves of Aggression for the sheer amount of decks that can play it and the fact that I have a Boros slot open (multiple actually ).

Maybe the right answer is none of the above, and that is fine too!

 

[Erik Twice]

I would take Wavwes of Aggression. It's the more interesting card and 5 mana for an "overrun" effect is fine. Moraug isn't going to get played in aggro because he requires 7 lands to be useful. Even then, he's weak on its own terms. It's a non-trampling 6/6 that only shines with other creatures in play. If you are doing poorly, or if he gets blown up, you are in a pretty bad position. I would rather have a dragon or other flyer than him.

I've found he reads much better than he actually plays, at least from my little limited experience. And he was in a set where breaking stalls was very important and removal was scarce. Not a fan.

 

[Erik Twice]

vs

A classic. What I want to hear is: Why do you prefer one over the other?

 

[Brad]

I prefer a big knight over modern ETB spam. Old school cards were much more based on having a lot of stats as value rather than ETB +1s. That's something I kind of want to get back to, but modern designs make it difficult.

That said, a 3/2 for 3 that ramps or gets back a threat in a fetchland format is almost surely stronger.

 

[sigh]

Knight Ramps too. I like the Knight much, much better. Fuels lands strategies better, a much stronger late game drop (assuming some discard and/or fetches in the deck), and powers itself! One neat package

 

[Nanonox]

Honestly, can't go wrong with either. I think it depends on what synergies you want to support.

Rallier: Blink, sacrifice
Knight: GY, lands

This is obviously a pretty big oversimplification, but a relatively fair one I think. In the end, I can get blink synergies with other GW cards, but KotR is unique for landfall and as a tutor.

 

[Erik Twice]

One of the reasons I ask is that I cut "lands" a a white/green archetype long ago. Lands is in GR and while it may move into white for wraths and Cataclysm, it's not really common. I do have blink and sacrifice as more adjacent themes. However, Knight of the Reliquary is a mana fixer and a big enough beater than it can push through the enemy while you have far better blink targets than Rallier.

 

[sigh]

GR lands should be able to easily splash a little white for the Knight if they want. Regardless, since the Knight is so good at powering itself, it doesn't really need to be in a dedicated lands archetype to shine, especially with fetches in the mana base.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Yeah Knight of the Reliquary does pretty well as a big dumb beater and a way to fetch up something like a creature land.-

 

[sigh]

If you aren't in love with Knight or want another blink target besides Rallier, a good one I just saw in the multicolor thread is

• Broad ETB effect that is obviously synergistic with blinking
• artifact/enchantment control, which is neat
• can enter at the magical 4/3 P/T

 

[Erik Twice]

vs

Would love to hear your thoughts in this one. The idol seems stronger on paper and it seems to put a harder limit on control. But perhaps I should see how it plays compared to the Helm.

 

[Nanonox]

I cut the Helm from my MP cube because it was very strong and the play pattern was boring. Your worst creature becomes the best one on the battlefield every single turn. There isn't much counter play either. You can activate it without passing priority (like Recurring Nightmare) unless your creature has an ETB effect.
I've never played with Idol, but the ping pong between players seems fun.

I would recommend Altar of Dementia if you are looking for a colorless sacrifice outlet. It is rather unique and enables some funky lines of play. It is repeatable which the others are not, so might be a deal breaker.

 

[Erik Twice]

My big worry with Jinxed Idol is that it turns into Sulfuric Vortex. After all, you can sacrifice a creature that is going to die to removal anyways so there's little cost to it.

Altar of Dementia seems very strong to me. I'm very wary of mill effects in cube in limited because there's a real chance of them winning the game simply because it went long. I know others have raved about the card and I already run Mesmeric Orb but I'm not sure. I think I could print proxies all three cards and give them a whirl.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Jinxed Idol is super powerful in an Aristocrats shell. I am a fan, but maybe not every environment will work for it.

 

[ravnic]

If you want to go down in power level a notch, I am very fond of this card:

 

[Mondschwein]

VS

 

[whydirt]

A third challenger appears.

 

[sigh]

Ransack is a really nice card, but not really the same sort of effect. Regarding Final Parting v. Buried Alive, those two also aren't really doing the same thing. What are you looking to do with the slot? Final Parting sets up GY interaction combos in one fell swoop (it can grab any type of card after all), and Buried Alive charges the GY for some big reanimation turn or fills the yard with creatures that have unearth, eternalize, GY effects, etc.

 

[Mondschwein]

Yeah, I already run a lot of card filtering effects that fill the yard (or even selfmill).

Tbh, I was just curious if people could tell me more about Buried Alive or Final Parting, as both of them fulfill the roles of tutors, and I wonder if they're worth the mana? I love the aforementioned selfmill/graveyard fillers, but I also like Gifts Ungiven, which actually is too strong for my environment, but I wondered about those two. It's lame if setting up reanimation is the best you can do with those, though, so I just put them here in hope you guys could tell me something interesting. but thinking about it after going to bed, getting up again and working a bit, those two look just a bit narrow/broing to me.