General Fight Club

FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
There was a time in magic history when I played Hammerheim instead of a mountain because wtf are they going to do Blood moon? I don't think it ever actually came up, but against goblins and their mountainwalk it wouldn't have hurt.

Also, flagstones. If I'm going to randomly support a creature type in the utility land draft, I'm going to randomly support four of them.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
oh man swarmyard.

i'm not sure Eiganjo has ever actually saved anything (or enabled an attack). flagstones is sweet if you have mass land death
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
CML said:
oh man swarmyard.

i'm not sure Eiganjo has ever actually saved anything (or enabled an attack). flagstones is sweet if you have mass land death
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I've gotten several Geist and uh... names are hard, 3/1 flash faerie tucker dude attacks in because of Eiganjo.
 
Jonas

Jonas

I don't get all the hate that Omenspeaker gets compared to Augur, seeing how often Augur whiffs and people gets sad. Omenspeaker always does its thing, and the info is always relevant.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

Jonas said:
I don't get all the hate that Omenspeaker gets compared to Augur, seeing how often Augur whiffs and people gets sad. Omenspeaker always does its thing, and the info is always relevant.
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That's why I find the choice difficult. Augur has a higher ceiling (1 card > scry 2), but Omenspeaker is more consistent. And scry 2 is actually great.

I'm running Augur right now, but I waffle a lot on that selection.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Even though it can whiff, I find that Augur of Bolas is more interesting for drafting and deckbuilding, because he poses a challenge to you. Omenspeaker is always going to be her same mediocre self, but Augur asks you to unlock its potential by skewing your draft a certain way. I enjoy a small amount of cards like that in cube.
 
Lucre

Lucre

Auger is a design decision, like Quirion Dryad. Quirion Dryad isn't amazing but it convinces people to draft more to a certain tune. Maybe you like those decks showing up. If not there is a certain oracle that you will like more.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Lucre said:
Both both both both both

If you're gonna cube em, make it draftable enough that you can sorta expect to have to fight one of these dumb decks!
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you are not permitted to run Natural Order if you use the portal art

i generally think of omenspeaker as augur that whiffs 100% of the time. augur is better for development here and his ability is fun to draft around.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
CML said:
you are not permitted to run Natural Order if you use the portal art

i generally think of omenspeaker as augur that whiffs 100% of the time. augur is better for development here and his ability is fun to draft around.
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I will say that judge foil looks beautiful, but for cards that old, you take what you can get
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Onderzeeboot said:
I agree, the Visions art is so much better, the portal art cries itself to sleep every night.
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i LOVE terese nielsen's art, but most of my favorite terese pieces involve trippy shit like nature's spiral. natural order is a cat killing something, which is even better.

i haven't minded most of the recent art, but the best art in Magic history is easily in Mirage block. it makes me think they've taken the photorealism thing a little too far
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Lucre said:
Auger is a design decision, like Quirion Dryad. Quirion Dryad isn't amazing but it convinces people to draft more to a certain tune. Maybe you like those decks showing up. If not there is a certain oracle that you will like more.
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Quirion Dryad is so week that it's not remotely worth building around. Especially when cards like Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze just take a giant shit on it without any effort.
 
Lucre

Lucre

Yeah I love all those cards. Even that vinelasher isn't horrible. I do think we are due for a Quirion Dryad + but I am content to play her in green tempo and multicolour decks and be excited about casting more than one card per turn.

It's weird that people are so cool on tarmogoyfe in their cubes, I feel like it isn't that hard to make an environment that supports it, but the best thing in green decks is often to just play a couple green permanents and go big on board.

On that note, Scavenging Ooze and the good graveyard hate quite literally shit all over goyfe. I remember playing Dryad and goyfe in the same standard brew ages back and thinking that goyfe was a dryad you could play later but was more vulnerable to graveyard hate.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

I don't think goyf is that great in cube honestly. It's just a big dumb undercosted beater that really is only undercosted in decks that get lots of stuff in the GY. And to Lucre's point, it can be hosed by other good cards that get played.

Plus the stupid card costs $200 and I'd personally rather sell mine for that and get a few dozen other rares for my cube.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

ahadabans said:
I don't think goyf is that great in cube honestly. It's just a big dumb undercosted beater that really is only undercosted in decks that get lots of stuff in the GY. And to Lucre's point, it can be hosed by other good cards that get played.

Plus the stupid card costs $200 and I'd personally rather sell mine for that and get a few dozen other rares for my cube.
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I did exactly this a month ago. Do it. You won't even notice.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Diakonov said:
I did exactly this a month ago. Do it. You won't even notice.
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i own 0 goyfs and i have one in cube. its power is context dependent, going from completely useless in grim mongo cubes to somewhere around a 2.5/3.5 here (if i had to name a number). i've thought about goyf and granularity in magic design (what if it cost 2.5? what if it was a */*+.5?) and it's in a good spot in typical rip cubes imo

Jason Waddell said:
Quirion Dryad is so week that it's not remotely worth building around. Especially when cards like Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze just take a giant shit on it without any effort.
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it's a bad topdeck but it gets pretty big over here. compares favorably to vinelasher

Dom Harvey said:
->
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i like these cards but nobody will ever play doran realistically. frostburn is also a tough sell given the functions of u/r in cube
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

CML said:
i own 0 goyfs and i have one in cube. its power is context dependent, going from completely useless in grim mongo cubes to somewhere around a 2.5/3.5 here (if i had to name a number). i've thought about goyf and granularity in magic design (what if it cost 2.5? what if it was a */*+.5?) and it's in a good spot in typical rip cubes imo
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Let me clarify. I don't think goyf sucks in cube. I just don't think he justifies his $200 price tag (or anywhere near that number). I don't like proxies. Never have. I've run them before (moxen), but I'm not a big fan. So when I try to rate cards, I rate them partially on how much they will cost me to buy. The fact of the matter is, there are no cards I want in my cube bad enough to pay $200 for them. If goyf cost $20, I might run it. Maybe. There's just plenty of other stuff I could run which may not be quite a good, but it will be good enough (and probably more interesting) and only set me back 5-10 bucks.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
well that's just dumb.

to be clear, i used to do the same ('work with what i have'), and my cube got much, much better when i accepted a gift of high-quality dual proxies so my fixing wasn't bouncelands and signets. the cost constraint is just about the least interesting part of magic (a massive design flaw for gamers imo) and part of the point of cube is that it costs $0 to play and corrects that design flaw. i get the resistance but i also think the resistance is silly.

if you limit yourself to the cards you can afford and you cannot afford cards you would like to run then you cannot really do design.

not to make an auto-da-fe out of this but jesus, dude, just make some proxies and your cube will be 1,000 times more fun, it's even more arbitrary than not adding a second Birthing Pod
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

I understand what you're saying CML, but Goyf isn't really all that interesting. It's vanilla enough that it's unlikely anyone would even notice if it's replaced by something similar.

If Birthing Pod were $200, this would be a different story. Then I'd either proxy or suck it up (probably suck it up, since I also resist proxies).
 
CML

CML

Contributor
I don't mean to specifically stick up for Goyf so much as not limiting yourself by card availability. On the other hand, how many ahada posts make more sense if they are oblique defenses of "only cards I own"

I kind of like Goyf and think there's a decent amount of play and draft-around to it. Also, every Cube needs a critical mass of creatures who just attack and block. (You're obviously right that it's just about the least cost-effective Cube investment possible, were that to matter)
 
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