General Fight Club

[sigh]

The "downside" of course assumes in this case that the stand out card is specifically not a creature (or land I suppose), which they often are anyways.

You can also put a card in the GY that activates other cards in ways that drawing them can't do (putting spell in GY for mizzix's mastery, putting anything in GY to be a target for Eternal Witness, activating delirium, etc.) AKA the self-milling often has real upsides that make the potential 'downside' either really minimal or a symptom of being included in a deck it shouldn't be in.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

While I mostly agree, I want to make some counterpoints to the argument that milling == not drawing:

I'm not arguing against that, but excluding a good card that mills you in fear of losing a good card is a beginners fallacy so I wouldn't not run Grapple with the Past based on it milling you, is my take on it.

 

[blacksmithy]

all this stuff being said, i’m gonna continue to stan Abundant Harvest and Living Wish for this slot

 

[blacksmithy]

Sweltering Suns
Anger of the Gods


How relevant is the cycling vs the exile?

 

[sigh]

I prefer the cycling overall, but these are very close contenders and Anger is also a great choice, especially if a recursive aggro theme is acting up in your format.

 

[blacksmithy]

one thing i like is that with my current sweeper suite, Anger gives red a distinct flavor of sweeper compared to black and white:
-white destroys everything with DOJ
-black gives everything -3/-3 so nabs indestructible creatures and regenerators
-red deals 3 and exiles so nabs recursive creatures and turns off delve/delirium

looking at these, blacks is actually probably the least relevant of all, but the effect i’m using is Yahenni’s Expertise which has its own unique upside…

 

[Brad]

Entirely depends on the relevance of the exile. Cycling is really good, so the exile needs to shut down a decent amount of stuff.

 

[Erik Twice]

vs

I don't want to overload my cube with 2 mana creatures that draw a card but they are all very useful. Which of these do you like more? I run Pod and Blink and both are good with those archetypes.

 

[sigh]

Watcher. Hideaway is really strong.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

vs

I don't want to overload my cube with 2 mana creatures that draw a card but they are all very useful. Which of these do you like more? I run Pod and Blink and both are good with those archetypes.

Fblthp, the Lost. Cantrip creatures are usually at their best when they can immediately draw the card when they come into play. Watcher needs to die or otherwise be blinked in order to provide its card value, making it a little bit weaker in strategies that desire the card more than the body.

Personally, I'd rather just have both of these cards if my Cube had synergy decks that wanted these effects. Playing both of these and cutting a different looter or something else entirely would be a sensible option in an environment with both pod and blink.

 

[blacksmithy]

oh man, maybe i should be running Mike Wazowscki… i always forget he exists

EDIT: i will say the selection and second power on watcher is nice, but etb tapped and delaying the draw is not

EDIT EDIT: also i currently run watcher, and he’s fine, but where you tend to struggle is that a blink deck wants to block well, and he don’t. but still nice if you have other cards that block well

 

[ravnic]

Which of these mono-white supporting anthems is cooler? Which is easier with a splash of another color?

 

[blacksmithy]

i like sacrament just because it has threshold tbh

 

[japahn]

Marshal better has less of a delta between the floor and the ceiling (which is huge in Divine Sacrament). The risk of a blowout creates a risk/reward dynamic during combat - do you attack/block assuming the anthem is on the board?

Threshold seems to make Sacrament a white graveyard-synergy card, but you're not going to play this outside of a white aggro deck, so that's more of an intersection between monowhite and graveyard, which might not make it a realistic synergy piece. Threshold can be naturally achieved though, and this elevation of tension in the late game makes the card more interesting.

I think Sacrament barely gets any worse if you splash a color, while Marshal gets a little bit worse, but from a power level standpoint, I'd be happier to play Marshal in both pure monowhite and also in monowhite + splash.

I would run Marshal personally, because it takes up less non-CABS (noncreature nonremoval) space in a deck and leaves room for cooler non-CABS effects.

 

[sigh]

I would probably run hall of triumph over Sacrament for a color-specific anthem effect. Would enable any color to play heavily one color, and much easier to cast obviously.

Of those two I'm on Marshal.

 

[japahn]

Heraldic Banner looks nice too, since it's more versatile, less explosive (due to not buffing toughness it's easier for the opponent to meaningfully trade), and like sigh said, works in other colors too.

 

[Erik Twice]

Both cards are cool, with Divine Sacrament being the coolest. However, I don't think it's playable for two reasons:

1) It only affects white creatures
2) White has an awful time filling the graveyard

The combination of both make the card just a bad design, sadly.

 

[Velrun]

Yeah Hall of Triumph and Heraldic Banner are way cooler because they can go into any color deck and are a little bit more mild.

 

[ravnic]

Okay, I will stick with Marshall then, since I still like a few devotion cards in my monocolor sections, but you guys opened up another fight club



I've cubed the Banner before and it was decent. But some decks just aren't interested in the 3-mana rock, so they'd much rather have the Hall. Hmmm.

 

[Brad]

I run Banner. I don't think either is amazing, but the Banner has a dual purpose, at least.

 

[Erik Twice]

vs

 

[blacksmithy]

so this depends mostly i think on your removal suite. if your opponents are likely to have 1-3 MV removal in hand and are going to kill your big dumb robot before you untap, Doom Engine is the easy pick in my mind as the evasion it carries is pretty OK and the death trigger will help you feel less bad.
if removal density is lower, or removal costs more like 4-6 MV, Hellkite has greater potential to win you the game in a single swing via its Engineered Explosives Breath Attack if not removed immediately, where Doom Engine can only swing for damage.

additionally, what’s your goal in adding a 6 mana artifact creature? is this going to the tinker/reanimator player? the tron/post player?
if the above decks are not present, then may i humbly suggest running/doubling up on modal-cost allstars Ballista and Walker instead, as they operate much more smoothly in a fair deck.

 

[Brad]

@inscho for this one

 

[inscho]

Doom Engine feels awfully reasonable for a card that can also one-shot a player....which is a pretty rare quality in a card, and one of the reasons why I value it so highly in my cube. I can totally see why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but it is one of my favorite combo pieces. It has a decent floor, but I would probably avoid it if I wasn't looking to abuse it tbh.

Hellkite is maybe serviceable, but feels so boring in comparison.

 

[ravnic]

Which of these discard outlets do you prefer for a lower powered cube to support a midrange madness deck? Is the increased card quality or the directly to the battlefield mans dork worth more?