I think you are right that women can wear lipstick if they want to, but sigh was critiqueing the use of lipstick in the art for Captain of the Watch as part of the total package. Combined with all the other art choices, like the pose and the boob armor, it creates the impression that the art is aimed at pleasing men with a "look at this hot chick" kind of vibe, instead of being a realistic (even if only in a fantasy setting) depiction of a female soldier. It's objectifying artwork, in other words. I don't believe sigh is against women using lipstick in general, and he confirmed as much at your request.
“Lipstick and a full face of makeup also apparently important for her job duties.... Also shields are for holding up hair, not for protection...”
To which I explain that some women actually want to look good to feel comfortable to perform well. But maybe I misunderstood Sigh. I thought he was being sarcastic.
If it’s a fictional character there are two and only two options to conclude:
1. It doesn’t matter because it’s fiction.
2. The woman made the decision herself to put on lipstick and anyone who challenges her on that decision should take a look in the mirror.
Velrun, I'm sorry, but saying "it doesn't matter because it's fictional" is super out of touch. There are plenty of fictional characters whose depictions have a markedly negative impact on society.
Fundamentally you're not seeing the framing of the argument correctly.
Velrun, I'm sorry, but saying "it doesn't matter because it's fictional" is super out of touch. There are plenty of fictional characters whose depictions have a markedly negative impact on society.
Fundamentally you're not seeing the framing of the argument correctly.
The problem with Middle Lady is that, in the event that someone tried to stab her, her armor would guide said stab right into her sternum (or her throat, depending). The decision that she made as a LARPer/re-enactor is pretty nonsensical from a "I would like to minimize my chances of dying as much as possible, please" perspective. Oh, sure, it looks badass, and that was obviously the intent... but badass does not good armor make.
The thing about people wearing armor where they have a cloth/mail torso piece and (expensive, hard-to-create-and-fit — those nicely fitted shoulders would be more expensive than torso protection) plate pauldrons is that they're going off of a Victorian misunderstanding, because in real life people wore a surcoat on top of their plate to A) keep it clean and B) identify who the hell they were so that their friends wouldn't kill them by accident. If you don't know that, however, it's not that hard to go "oh, armored shoulders, less armored torso — got it".
Compare her to this lady:
While she really needs to find herself a good helmet (and dump that cape), the way her torso is armored? Good shit. She's wearing plate with a surcoat on top, and she has a gorget that prevents some lucky schmuck from getting in a hit on her throat. Her hands and arms being unarmored is actually accurate — you pretty much worry about those body parts last, because they're a moving target in a way that the relatively stationary torso isn't.
That hair needs to be tied up, though. It's pretty and all for when you're parading through the streets after winning a fight, but it's a grabbing hazard.
As for the other two pictures you posted, @sigh...
Lady Left is wearing jousting armor (which is good, because she appears to be jousting). That's real, legitimate armor, but it's also armor designed for use in a very particular sport — it's optimized for the specific situation of having someone tilt at you with a big ol' lance. That's not what you'd wear to a fight, for the same reason that you wouldn't wear football padding to a fight.
Ser Right, on the other hand, is wearing legit armor... but the condition that it's in implies that she's dressed up for a victory parade (or, you know, a photo-shoot). You can tell because it's ultra shiny (which would mean that she had a bunch of servants scrub and buff it to a shine), and because she's wearing a cape (it's a popular look, despite being impractical).
...
Honestly, given that people made parade armor that made it look like they had chiseled abs, I can totally buy a rich warrior lady commissioning a set of armor that emphasized her boobs as a way of dunking on other people for being poor. That being said... that's not what's going on in Captain of the Watch, who is going to die very soon (from a Doom Blade or a Lightning Bolt). Greg Staples was obviously making some pretty key design decisions with his dick, and I agree that we should have less of that nonsense.
That being said, if I were more lady-shaped, I'd probably take the armor she's wearing over the armor that Middle Lady is wearing. It's ridiculous as fuck, yes, but it would help reduce my chances of catching pike-in-my-goddamn-sternum syndrome. Because despite that stupid ornamentation, it's still one solid piece of metal, which means it's effectively stab-proof.
Option two is extremely unlikely given all the other art choices the male painter made and the fact that this is card art without any backstory. Captain of the Watch was painted like a male fantasy of a sexy lady in boob armor, and the lipstick (and eyeliner) are part of that whole art trope. An art trope that has been plaguing game art for a long time, I might add. We're finally in an age where this kind of art rightfully gets called out. There's nothing wrong with a sexy lady, or a lady wanting to look sexy, but in this particular case the armor and pose are silly at best, and propagating a harmful art stereotype at worst. It's not just about the lipstick, and focusing on just that single aspect of the art (and single aspect of sigh's argument) is missing the forest for the trees.
People are discussing so many other things than the topic I submitted into.
In a world where fictional characters are real, just treat them like they are making their own decisions just like we do or should do with women in the real world. If anyone has a problem with this, take a look in the mirror. If anyone wants to discuss anything else, I did not sign up for it.
Once again and just to be clear, it might be me who misunderstood the premise in the first place.
Looking at the contours of that coat in the image you posted, I'm not even sure she is wearing any plate or brigandine, if it is a surcoat, she's improperly wearing it under the armor. She's wearing it like one would wear a gambeson. The armor piece that would go under the chestplate, which would go over the gorget (which is missing as far as I can tell, and the pauldrons hung by the bevor, which is very odd layout). Those details and the weird gap under the bevor indicate to me that it is indeed only an improperly worn surcoat. In that case she is even less protected than middle lady, except for specifically her throat and shoulders. One surcoat an effective defense does not make. The thin thermal underwear style inner layer also a sweet, sweet nothing in actual use.
man with surcoat over gambeson. Note how theoretical pauldrons affixed to his shoulders via gorget would be mostly covered except the arm portions of the pauldron. And how gotdang meaty the gambeson layer should be at the arms. 20-odd layers of linen after all.
That being said, if I were more lady-shaped, I'd probably take the armor she's wearing over the armor that Middle Lady is wearing. It's ridiculous as fuck, yes, but it would help reduce my chances of catching pike-in-my-goddamn-sternum syndrome. Because despite that stupid ornamentation, it's still one solid piece of metal, which means it's effectively stab-proof.
Mail and a gambeson combined are highly stab proof on their own, especially worn in that configuration (mail outside), and were far more common than spit-shined full harness. If middle lady is truly wearing all the armor she brought to the LARP in this picture*, I would simply remove the plate pieces to be ""more accurate"". A boob plate would crush your sternum from the impact of the pike, no matter how stab resistant it is, or at the very least severely knock the wind out of you. I'm picking middle lady's outfit and tossing the weird plate bits to a comrade with a chestplate lol.
The armor I would most want to wear in the CofW art is goon #2, who looks to be wearing full mail, leg and arm armor, and potentially a chestplate, but impossible to tell thanks to the Caps arm. Goon #3 seems to be entirely shirtless or wearing a form fitting cloth shirt only.... this is a very inconsistent military organization....
*I don't think she is, because the outer armor layers don't typically have many exposed buckles, and the gorget she is wearing is designed to be worn completely under the chestplate and bevor. Literally the only surviving version of middle lady picture I can find is from Pinterest so there's no way to dig in deeper that I can see, but that is my speculation. She took off layers because they are hot, heavy, and cumbersome, or she was asked for a photo partially ready. Something like that. Or she decided to just wear a gorget and pauldrons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Now THIS lady knows what's up. Gambeson (seen at her neckline and inner arms), mail tunic, apparently sleeveless (very common), and mostly full plate harness that doens't look like it's been silver plated.
Neck and head armor allowances made for the whole 'better photo' thing.
Yeah, she's looking pretty good. And Goon #2 clearly won the Armor Lottery.
...
I was going with an implicit "assuming that you don't let me add or remove things" for the "armor I prefer". If I can switch stuff around... Middle Lady's armor, a shield, and a helmet (holy fuck people wear helmets your skull needs the help).
And I'll admit, I mostly posted Gorget Girl's picture because A) she has a proper gorget that covers her throat, and B) the contours looked more-or-less right to me (I have bad eyes).
No one has been discussing anything else when they're addressing you. You've been repeating the same nonsensical argument over and over while it's been shot down half a dozen times by numerous posters.
A MAN DREW THIS WOMAN. SHE IS FICTIONAL. SHE CAN'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS.
They're super busted, but as a player I would probably go for Mox Jet. Most cubes tend to have heavier B mana requirements than R. Like you can cast almost all red two-drops off a single red mana, but Hymn to Tourach requires the full commitment.
That's like saying Mondrian had the bad tendence of not using curved lines.
Artistically speaking, most of the debate is nonsense. The artwork is not realistic and the armour is not meant for deflecting blows any more than the horned helmets are in an opera by Wagner. There's very little influence from Frazetta in the art and frankly, there's absolutely no eroticism in the piece. I can walk into the Church a couple blocks down the street and see more eroticism than in Captain of the Watch.
It's telling that Captain of the Watch, which portrays a woman in full armour, is being seen as sexualized but these men aren't:
Let's be honest. The issue is not eroticism, sexuality or anything of the sort. The issue is women and how they are constantly held to arbitrary standards on how they should look. If you think Captain of the Watch has "no place in MTG" but the above cards do, I ask you to reconsider why you think something is acceptable for men but not for women. Frankly, I find the idea that Captain of the Watch depicts "object" for "male" consumption to be orders of magnitude more sexist than the art could ever hope to be. It's the same reduction of a person to their sexual characteristics, only from the opposite end.
I'm as tired as anyone of fanservice, male-pandering and all other nonsense as anyone here. I cringe at the pathethic stuff that goes on in, say, anime, or cards like Reversal of Fortune. But the current push towards improving the matter is every bit as uncritical and artistically ignorant as the original problem. At its core, it's the same Puritan nonsense. It follows the same principles and has the same solutions. It all boils down to "women should be covered up" and "women should not have big breasts" under the guise of protecting the weak from being exposed to sin. I don't find Captain of the Watch any more "sexy" or erotic than Syona or whatever MTG woman of your choice:
The issue is breasts. Women are not allowed to have breasts without being painted as "oversexualidad" and "slutty". I firmly believe that the only reason Captain of the Watch is seen as "oversexualized" and Syona isn't is their breasts. The rest is extremely minor if not outright accessory. You could put the same breasts in any clothing and we would have the same debate. Meanwhile, men are allowed to show their breasts and nipples and nobody bats an eye. It's only women and their features that are to be covered up.
Women are hit with exactly the same the same lines, in an identical manner in real life. And women artists in particular are hit with exactly the same criticism their male counterparts are, with the added benefit of being told they suffer from "internalized misoginy" if they disagree. For example, the "Men drawing women" subreddit is infamous for repeatedly targetting female artists with their "critique".
I'll buck the trend and go with Mox Ruby, if only because Red is likely to have heavier artifact themes. Again, it depends a lot on the context of the cube--if it's synergy-driven, Ruby, assuming that we don't have Kethis, the Hidden Hand loops. If it's power-driven, then yeah, I think that Jet is typically going to be the better choice for a P1P1.
My vote goes to Mox Ruby for this exact reason. Because aggro decks are typically very low mv, Ruby Mox helps you to sequence out multiple threats in a turn, accelerating your clock significantly. All the Moxen are broken, but Mox Ruby and Mox Pearl are the best ones, because they allow you to empty your hand even quicker than the other three, thanks to the lower mana curves of typical red and white cube decks.
LSV lists Mox Ruby over Mox Jet in the MTGO Vintage cube and I agree.
The reason is that the red decks are usually both stronger and more reliable than black decks. Opening with a Mox Ruby when you are playing Red Aggro is far more impactful than anything you can do with the black mana from Mox Jet.
Women are hit with exactly the same the same lines, in an identical manner in real life. And women artists in particular are hit with exactly the same criticism their male counterparts are, with the added benefit of being told they suffer from "internalized misoginy" if they disagree. For example, the "Men drawing women" subreddit is infamous for repeatedly targetting female artists with their "critique".
This is an actually male artist though, because I read the artist line on the bottom of the card, and found where Greg is selling the print. It's a dude.
Reddit bros incorrectly checking artist sources is not what's happening here. Even though female artists can and should be critiqued for making objectifying art without underlying purpose, just not with the same lens of critique. I didn't even need to think about that, because I know there are no women involved in this art. A male's decisions did go into the composition of this piece.
Like why even bring this up? No female artist or anybody of the female gender at all is involved here. A little sad they get targeted like that, but.... not applicable here.
The reason why those shirtless dudes don't come off as being sexualized comes down to a difference in social expectations for men and women in Western cultures. Long story short: the Bog Standard Male Power Fantasy includes being sexy, because, hey, having those chiseled abs implies that you're strong as fuck, and that confident swagger is, well, a confident swagger.
And, honestly, out of that line-up? Oko's the only one who's posed in a "hey, look at how hot I am" kinda way. That's an "I'm on the cover of a romance novel, ladies" pose right there. Which is actually kinda creepy, given how much of an abusive fuck the dude is.
As for this being a "boobs" or "nudity" thing. I doubt someone is going to look at these cards and go "those girls are totally being sexualized":
...
I vote Mox Ruby, because Red is better than Black. Fight me, Brad.
). Greg Staples was obviously making some pretty key design decisions with his dick, and I agree that we should have less of that nonsense.
