Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, agree with the rest, in that case cut the Swarm and keep the Vermin!
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Battlefly Swarm is so boring. I don't know if I've ever been happy to put it into a deck. It definitely feels like the easy cut here.
its like a french vanilla but worse... rats actually does stuff but both get outclassed by that new uncommon faerie that surveils and draws cards from the yard
Cut both and do two Faerie Dreamthief 
Adding a 5th land of each guild to my cube just to smooth games, looking for some input on the few I haven't settled on yet.
At the moment I run an ABUR dual, Shock, Bicycle dual and Fetch for each guild, plus 10 Triomes and 10 utility/gold lands.
Looking to break the symmetry on this final land per guild, with the only condition that they don't have basic land types.
Am open to other suggestions, including customs if they don't push power level. Preferably these are the "feature" land that helps tell drafters what to do in these colours.
VS
RG Madness is a deck, RG(x) midrange is a deck, 'Wet Jund' Aggro Loam has occurred more than once (when people don't prioritize their fixing) and I'm cool with that continuing. I would like the land to be able come in untapped, as RG Madness is hella aggressive and loves its 1-drops - that's the only reason I'm not windmill-slamming Raging Ravine.
Also considering Rootbound Crag and Cragcrown Pathway for entering untapped in the midgame, but less sold on them.
VS
WB is either a midrange-y humans list that wants to get from 1WW to 2BB, or a control deck that needs to get from 1WW to 2BB.
Fetid Heath does that on its own, but I'd also quite happily run Restless Fortress in either deck as reach/inevitability.
Neither tap for coloured mana turn 1, but I'm okay with that.
VS VS
I don't really know what I want here. UG is either a tempo Madness deck circa 2002 (With more and better counterspells), or turboramp. UG also has all the untap effects that are part of the tokenstorm and Kiki-Jiki stuff, and Growth Chamber feels like it has been missed in the past.
Then there's Temur payoffs that care about topdeck manipulation, so maybe the Temple signposts that? I used to run all 10 temples when my cube was slower (and cheaper), and it along with Temply of Epiphany were the only ones that felt consistently "right".
Hinterland Harbor feels like the "safe but boring" pick.
VS VS
Similar to Simic, I don't really know what I want here. UR is usually combo-control that takes a beating early, and Temur has payoffs that care about topdeck manipulation, so I feel like the Temple is the obvious choice.
OTOH, Ux tempo and R aggro are both very supported, and I can imagine a world where someone tries for an Izzet Blitz deck that I haven't explicitly planned, or says "Fuck my manabase, Temur Madness". Islet and Snarl feel like they bridge that gap.
I'm even sorta considering Sulfur Falls and Frostboil Snarl too, for the "safe" option.
For context, here's what I have so far:
Most of those should be self-explanatory. Peatland is for Loam decks and to double down on Gitrog signposting. Riftstone Portal is a potshot to see if all the discard effects I run make it worth adding to greedy Aggro Loam decks and maybe justify an experimental Realms Uncharted a little bit. UW Control needs the help so I'm happy to give them the best land.
At the moment I run an ABUR dual, Shock, Bicycle dual and Fetch for each guild, plus 10 Triomes and 10 utility/gold lands.
Looking to break the symmetry on this final land per guild, with the only condition that they don't have basic land types.
Am open to other suggestions, including customs if they don't push power level. Preferably these are the "feature" land that helps tell drafters what to do in these colours.
VS RG Madness is a deck, RG(x) midrange is a deck, 'Wet Jund' Aggro Loam has occurred more than once (when people don't prioritize their fixing) and I'm cool with that continuing. I would like the land to be able come in untapped, as RG Madness is hella aggressive and loves its 1-drops - that's the only reason I'm not windmill-slamming Raging Ravine.
Also considering Rootbound Crag and Cragcrown Pathway for entering untapped in the midgame, but less sold on them.
VS WB is either a midrange-y humans list that wants to get from 1WW to 2BB, or a control deck that needs to get from 1WW to 2BB.
Fetid Heath does that on its own, but I'd also quite happily run Restless Fortress in either deck as reach/inevitability.
Neither tap for coloured mana turn 1, but I'm okay with that.
VS VS I don't really know what I want here. UG is either a tempo Madness deck circa 2002 (With more and better counterspells), or turboramp. UG also has all the untap effects that are part of the tokenstorm and Kiki-Jiki stuff, and Growth Chamber feels like it has been missed in the past.
Then there's Temur payoffs that care about topdeck manipulation, so maybe the Temple signposts that? I used to run all 10 temples when my cube was slower (and cheaper), and it along with Temply of Epiphany were the only ones that felt consistently "right".
Hinterland Harbor feels like the "safe but boring" pick.
Restless Vinestalk would also be cool but I do have a few decks that like to slam a big ol blocker as their only way to survive until they come online, and I worry about it invalidating that a bit.
Waterlogged Grove would also play well I suspect, but I think it would be consistently misplayed by my group - the decks that would pick it (three or four colour Loam) don't need the additional card draw, where the ones that wouldn't draft it (Madness) do.
Waterlogged Grove would also play well I suspect, but I think it would be consistently misplayed by my group - the decks that would pick it (three or four colour Loam) don't need the additional card draw, where the ones that wouldn't draft it (Madness) do.
VS VS Similar to Simic, I don't really know what I want here. UR is usually combo-control that takes a beating early, and Temur has payoffs that care about topdeck manipulation, so I feel like the Temple is the obvious choice.
OTOH, Ux tempo and R aggro are both very supported, and I can imagine a world where someone tries for an Izzet Blitz deck that I haven't explicitly planned, or says "Fuck my manabase, Temur Madness". Islet and Snarl feel like they bridge that gap.
I'm even sorta considering Sulfur Falls and Frostboil Snarl too, for the "safe" option.
For context, here's what I have so far:
Most of those should be self-explanatory. Peatland is for Loam decks and to double down on Gitrog signposting. Riftstone Portal is a potshot to see if all the discard effects I run make it worth adding
to greedy Aggro Loam decks and maybe justify an experimental Realms Uncharted a little bit. UW Control needs the help so I'm happy to give them the best land.
I think a lot of these come down to whether you think the color pair needs fixing or a little extra juice. My instinct is to make the lands all about fixing, so my vote would be Copperline Gorge, Fetid Heath, Simic Growth Chamber, and Temple of Epiphany. Cool choices!
That said, if you're interested in customs, may I recommend a RG horizon land if you're looking for something to enter untapped at all stages of the game? RG is likely not a control deck, so it wouldn't mind the life loss.
That said, if you're interested in customs, may I recommend a RG horizon land if you're looking for something to enter untapped at all stages of the game? RG is likely not a control deck, so it wouldn't mind the life loss.
i will never not tell someone to run creature duals if theyre looking for untyped duals. you can even mix and match now!
I think you're right, this is what I'll go with. I'm already running 5 custom lands (Enemy-coloured Bicycles) and a RG Horizon land is very much in line with that.
@blacksmithy - As much as I like manlands, especially the new ones from WOE, I'm kind of wanting to use these as signposts in the same way I use my gold/hybrid cards. There's a Mutavault in the utility lands pile at least
How would you rank these?
I am running the first three currently and they are very good. I'm considering to replace one with WttF, but I DON'T want to increase the power level of my stealing effects, as they are close enough to be annoying as they are. So I would NOT want to add it over something that's significantly weaker.
I am running the first three currently and they are very good. I'm considering to replace one with WttF, but I DON'T want to increase the power level of my stealing effects, as they are close enough to be annoying as they are. So I would NOT want to add it over something that's significantly weaker.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ever considered
Slight upside over Confiscate at the cost of a slightly more prohibitive casting cost, but seeing that you run Invoke the Winds, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
Slight upside over Confiscate at the cost of a slightly more prohibitive casting cost, but seeing that you run Invoke the Winds, that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
@Onderzeeboot I didn't know Volition reigns existed, I might add that too. Thanks!
But for the main quest here, I wasn't looking for a cut. I mostly wanted to know if welcome to the fold is better than my current suite of stealing effects, because I don't want it to be.
And yes @LadyMapi, Invoke is there for mono blue drafters.
But for the main quest here, I wasn't looking for a cut. I mostly wanted to know if welcome to the fold is better than my current suite of stealing effects, because I don't want it to be.
And yes @LadyMapi, Invoke is there for mono blue drafters.
All of those cards are pretty weak, but I think Welcome to the Fold is by far the worst.
agree 100%, except i think the NEO control magic variant is actually pretty cool in standard-y cubes
In my experience the text "enchant permanent" is worth a lot, and kept Confiscate in my cube for a long time. At six mana, big enchantments and planeswalkers are often on-board already (in addition to creatures and artifacts), so I would guess that even at six mana Confiscate is more powerful than any of others.
"I take your best guy" is a really powerful effect, especially when it can't be Disenchanted.
I'd like to toss Lay Claim into the ring. I think that Welcome could be better than Vapor Snare depending on synergies and curve, but Vapor Snare will have a more even power band. It's going to do what you expect it to do much more consistently.
Confiscate > Vapor Snare >= Invoke the Winds >>> Welcome to the Fold
Like, that depends on some factors like how blue my deck is, the sorts of stuff I need answers to (Because of the sorts of threats in the cube as well as what I've already picked up), but if my P1 was these four and nothing else of consequence that's the order I'd draft them in.
Like, that depends on some factors like how blue my deck is, the sorts of stuff I need answers to (Because of the sorts of threats in the cube as well as what I've already picked up), but if my P1 was these four and nothing else of consequence that's the order I'd draft them in.
Welcome is . . . difficult to make good. I struggle to think of situations in which I'm happy to steal a creature for likely 2 more mana than was used to cast it. If you want something less powerful per pound than what you have going, that's a good option.
May I suggest Beguiler of Wills as a cool "steal your stuff" creature? It has a higher ceiling, fun interactions, and telegraphs itself nicely.
May I suggest Beguiler of Wills as a cool "steal your stuff" creature? It has a higher ceiling, fun interactions, and telegraphs itself nicely.
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Okay, thanks, now I am more than convinced that I can safely test Welcome to the Fold with no fear of it's power level
I'll probably test it over Confiscate as a version that synergizes with madness, spells matter and is more useful against aggro than against midrange. If it add these synergistic upsides without increaskng this slot's power level, I'll be more than happy.
I'll probably test it over Confiscate as a version that synergizes with madness, spells matter and is more useful against aggro than against midrange. If it add these synergistic upsides without increaskng this slot's power level, I'll be more than happy.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Here are a few more effects that are of a similar power level to what you currently play, that I personally like better than Welcome to the Fold, which looks quite underwhelming tbh. Note that Hypnotic Siren is incidental support for ninja's as well
By the way, do you want the opponent to be able to get their creature back? Do you want Disenchant to be the kind of counterplay or something more like Boomerang?
@Onderzthese are cool, I could see me adding the Siren at least, bit it's not that much about stealing effects per se. Vapor Snare and Invoke are just in my list as non parasitic support for Landfall or devotion respectively.
I think I'd like the aura versiln better as this gives non-blue decks a chance to answer this. But it's not a crucial part for me. Synergizing positively with themes I want to support is far more important.
I think I'd like the aura versiln better as this gives non-blue decks a chance to answer this. But it's not a crucial part for me. Synergizing positively with themes I want to support is far more important.
How do you feel about
I've been running Reckless Impulse in my cube and it has been a B-tier spell. Solid, but nothing spectacular. You run it because it's yet another instant you can use to draw, trigger storm, Pyromancer, etc. And I wonder if it would be too much of a downgrade to do this:
->
It doesn't affect turns in which you go off but it is substantially worse of for set-up and it's very much not a turn-two play. Do you think the difference will be huge or will the difference be small enough that it's worth the sacrifice of slotting in the Druid? It's a human, it uses counters and I already run Managorger Hydra as spells support.
Thoughts?
-> It doesn't affect turns in which you go off but it is substantially worse of for set-up and it's very much not a turn-two play. Do you think the difference will be huge or will the difference be small enough that it's worth the sacrifice of slotting in the Druid? It's a human, it uses counters and I already run Managorger Hydra as spells support.
Thoughts?
Seek the Beast is an Instant with "Until your next end step", so unless you're main-phasing it to hit a land drop you'd otherwise miss it's a straight upgrade. You cast it at the end of their turn to have access to the cards in your own, so yeah it's still a t2 play. I'd definitely make the swap if colour balance isn't a consideration for you.