General Fight Club

RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Red has such a shortage of decent, playable 4-drops that I can't fathom cutting either, but I suppose I'd pick Hellrider in my format and Hero in token-heavy formats.
 
Tzenmoroth

Tzenmoroth

I actually removed Hero when he got sidegraded. Also, Hero's last ability was basically flavor text in my environment, making him feel a little vanilla. Hellrider I think is better because he's basically a 4/3 battlecry haste with the benefit of throwing some of the damage past blockers and red decks hate blockers so he's still sweet, I vote for him.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

Grillo_Parlante said:
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Ha, I run all three. Delver is double-squaded to increase build-around incentive. I'm surprised that people don't like the bear. He's been fine. You can't equip it but in blue aggro people tend to focus more on tempo anyway, at least over here. I might even try Frost Walker.

Rasmus Källqvist said:
Delver is a fan favorite over here, so I'll stick to that. I'd run 2x Delver 1x Cloudfin, for the occasional UR/UG aggro deck.

vs
Which one gets to stay?
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I just added Shaman of the Great Hunt but haven't seen him in action yet. Seems like the most interesting option for a hasty four-damage four-drop.

@Rave: I suppose it depends on your way of classifying things, but I always add Koth to the creature slot.
Also, I disagree about Ashcloud Phoenix. Slow? Yes. Doesn't seem boring though.

I really look forward to trying Avaricious Dragon when I can get my hands on one.
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

Shaman of the Great Hunt is easily our best 4-drop in red. The haste is real nice, he rewards a well-crafted board, and he has stalled state relevance with his activated ability if your colours allow it. Excellent card.

Avaricious Dragon is also super tasty, though not as straight-up "good". He goes great with Keldon Megaliths in the ULD and is the sort of high-risk, high-reward card I want at 4. Pretty good, but certainly skill-testing.

Re: Koth; I don't feel comfortable calling a Planeswalker anything other than a Planeswalker because they represent such a massive potential for unstoppable advantage. I think their power is honestly underestimated even by the wariest of cube-designers (myself included) because they have such an ability to take over the game on such a strange axis and force your opponent to make tough decisions virtually every time they're played. While Koth is certainly one of the most "fair" walkers, I still think he's got a lot more to him than just spitting out dudes, because he becomes another decision tree for both players to manage and that ultimate is pretty killer.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Another vote for Ashcloud Phoenix - he's been surprisingly good over here, and is a great addition to the Big Red decks that a lot of folks are trying to support. Doesn't fill the same role as the aggro curve toppers, but a nigh-unkillable creature is a great value card for any red deck trying to make the game go long.

Red aggro was getting too good around here, so I tried downgrading Hellrider to Hero of Oxid Ridge... which wasn't much of a downgrade, as it turns out. They're pretty comparable in terms of power level. Maybe I'll try Shaman of the Great Hunt next.

I wish Delver of Secrets were less swingy; a 1/1 ground pounder and a 3/2 flyer are night and day in terms of board presence. When the day comes that Wizards prints some sort of playable, blue, prowess one-drop, all my Delvers will get swapped out, stat.

I would recommend Phantasmal Bear only if you run Ninja of the Deep Hours, and love him. Which I do, and I do!
 
CML

CML

Contributor
I wouldn't cut Hellrider or Red Hero. My playgroup literally cheered (around two years ago) when I threw in the Hellrider in addition. Both cars together are great fun.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Grillo_Parlante said:
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Sigh.
Well, Delver has the rather large problem of assuming a 16 land, 4 delver, 20 spell deck, the odds of flipping it are 50/50. That's pretty unacceptably low for a creature that doesn't affect the board until it flips, so I'm not a fan. Even if you bump that up to more reliable numbers with scry and brainstorm, the end result is that delver is either horrible or absolutely insane. The only upside to this card I can see is that the alternatives are so horrible it looks reasonable.

Cloudfin Raptor is great assuming A) Your opponent ignores it and B) You curve out perfectly evolving it 2-3 times
Here are the thoughts going through my head when I resolve a raptor T1:
  • Boy I hope my opponent doesn't play something I need to interact with. Precinct Captain would fuck my curve up right now.
  • Boy I hope I don't miss a land drop.
  • Boy I hope my blue deck has 18-20 creatures in it so I can actually evolve this piece of crap
  • Boy I hope all the creatures (in my blue deck, I remind you) have reasonable power/toughness for their CMC. No small utility creatures!
  • I'm so glad I drew my raptor in my opener. I really hope I don't draw any more, since it's a horrible topdeck! I mean, savannah lions at least trades with other moderately sized creatures, but I'm playing blue.
  • I hope this thing lives long enough for it to have 2 power, since if that doesn't happen it hasn't really contributed to my board at all.
Like, I get it. If it had 1 power it'd be insane, since the last thing experiment one needs is evasion. But every one of the above bullet points is a problem, and if any of them go wrong you're stuck with storm crow. This thing's average case scenario is awful
Phantasmal Bear is the least shit of the three, and for that I recommend it. It plays horribly with blue's otherwise undersized creatures, since it can't pick up the equipment you'd usually need to make them work, and it also can't be protected by a counterspell, or attack well into the lategame like other blue creatures, but at least it is a functional magic card that attacks and blocks, and does damage without the absurd amount of setup the other two require.
I don't even run it since custom cards let me avoid the aforementioned frustrations. This is my 1 drop of choice:
DNd0e09.jpg

This thing is an unprintable abomination basically on par with making Hymn to Tourach a pitch spell (Like Misdirection and co), because blue isn't allowed to have actual creatures, just sorceries that happen to have power and toughness:


Attacking? With a blue deck? Pfft play white
 
B

blacksmithy

Eric Chan said:
I would recommend Phantasmal Bear only if you run Ninja of the Deep Hours, and love him. Which I do, and I do!
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Just a side note, Phantasmal Bear -> Remand -> Tangle Wire is the play sequence that took Tangle Wire from "always tables to me" status to "first pick" status in my playgroup, but it wouldn't have been possible without my fuzzy-wuzzy friend.

Defensive red critters at 3 you say?

Obviously I'm stretching the definition of defensive here a bit, but these guys all block/do useful stuff for the not-beatdown player.
 
K

kevthewalker

blacksmithy said:
Defensive red critters at 3 you say?

Obviously I'm stretching the definition of defensive here a bit, but these guys all block/do useful stuff for the not-beatdown player.
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Already have the dealer, and decided to go with the Crater Elemental. Thanks for the suggestions though! Might consider Squee + Jaya in a future update. :D

Two more before I logout.
Firstly:
VS

Note:
WR is a control pair in my cube. Red also has a goblin token theme going while white deals with enchantments. Rise if obviously the better card, but I'm considering the Trenches because I have a
in red + I support lands in yard in green as minor themes.

Secondly:
VS

Note:
Blue is aggro in my cube. Efreet is the better basic beater while Sphinx supports some graveyard themes (flashback, lands, etc..) but is more iffy. I'm also considering:

because it has nice stats and supports lands in yard as well.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Sea Drake is usually suicidal to cast on curve and the land bounce isn't very much in the way of late game utility. Its also pretty unlikely you'll be able to cast it with one land out (and thus avoid the trigger) unless you run uberfast mana. I've run it in the past, but its pretty marginal. It would be pretty powerful/interesting with flash.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Cloudfin Raptor is awesome, don't let Chris tell you otherwise! Unless you insist on mono blue aggro being a thing, then you should run customs, like that silly pie-breaking Benthic Seer. I mean, you could also run the Raptor in a multicolor deck, with green creatures for example, which willconsistently trigger evolve and complement the beatdown plan very well. A blue-green tempo deck featuring two Raptors has even 3-0'd one of my drafts!
 
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