General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Master has a ton of text, Nightpack Ambusher is very good and promotes a unique theme (Flash). Both are a bit dumb.
Note that it's A-Symmetry Sage, not the original. What's your pick?
Note that it's A-Symmetry Sage, not the original. What's your pick?
If you're doing the Alchemy version of Symmetry Sage, it's certainly the "better" card, but I still like everything Stormchaster's Talent does. Sage is going to help drive it home real hard though that UR prowess is a real deck though, where Stormchaser's Talent may get picked up by random Blue decks.
In defense of Master of the Wild Hunt's wordiness, there are two kinds of wordiness. Compare the following cards with eight lines of text:
Questing Beast is that wordy because it does it has three keywords and does three other things on top of that. Master of the Wild Hunt, on the other hand, does two things - it just happens that "Tap this and all of your untapped Wolves to have the wolves collectively fight one of villain's creatures" is hilariously wordy when written up in Magic-ese.
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In terms of creatures that care about spells for
... I feel like those two cards want to end up in different decks? Sage says tempo to me while Talent says control. I'm not sure that those gut feelings are accurate, mind you, but they're there.
Questing Beast is that wordy because it does it has three keywords and does three other things on top of that. Master of the Wild Hunt, on the other hand, does two things - it just happens that "Tap this and all of your untapped Wolves to have the wolves collectively fight one of villain's creatures" is hilariously wordy when written up in Magic-ese.
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In terms of creatures that care about spells for
... I feel like those two cards want to end up in different decks? Sage says tempo to me while Talent says control. I'm not sure that those gut feelings are accurate, mind you, but they're there.
I'd go Shoreline. Does the same thing as il-Kor as the baseline, can just become straight up card draw if the game drags further. Very easy to understand with Threshold being one of the more straightforward classic mechanics. I'm out on Malcolm because too much text and random counters are finicky, out on Stowaway because Day/Night is the worst paper mechanic I've ever played with.
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My favorite of these cards is Malcom since he can be a true threat in addition to providing some cool card advantage. Shoreline Looter is a fine version of this effect and the only version that isn't overly wordy or uses an obscure keyword.
A few different takes on the same idea. I played Looter il-Kor for ages, swapped over to Malcolm recently but I think I might swap again to Shoreline Looter as it feels the cleanest. Any thoughts?
I would rank them as follows:
Malcom, Alluring Scoundrel>Shoreline Looter>Looter il-Kor>>>>>>Suspicious Stowaway
Your 2 drop dealt 8 by the time the effect goes big. If the discard is getting cast, it was probably already over.
Unless you're concerned about the 2/1 flyer, which is sorta reasonable.
I'd go with malcom if you want your cube to be the more traditional good cards that that synergize in cool ways, and shoreline looter if your cube design is more archetype driven. Personally I prefer other ways to loot that can let you cast madness spells at instant speed because that's kewl. (I say as I have cut most madness cards in my cube for more open-ended payoffs like Hollow One, Currency Converter and Inti, Senechal of the Sun.)
It's less concern and more that I think there's more nuance to the gameplay experience when "creature that generates value" and "creature that meaningfully advances my game plan" are separate, on both sides of the table.
To put it a different way... Malcolm's a card that promises that it will do its cool thing if you can attack with it 4+ times. Outside of proliferating, there isn't really a way to change this clock, and the upside of "going off" is so large that you'll always be a bit disappointed when villain kills it after you've put three chorus counters on it. And that's almost always going to happen, because, as you pointed out, the game's probably already over if villain can't stop Malcolm from going off.
In contrast, Shoreline Looter has a much narrower range between its normal functionality and its cool thing (meaning that you're going to be less disappointed if villain kills it before you get there), it's less of an active threat if you don't buff it up (meaning that it's likely to live longer), and the countdown to drawing cards with it is based off of something that both players can manipulate through just playing the game.
I really like elder since it's good for both spellslinger and decks that profit from discarding and/or drawing cards. Not necessarily a staple, but for me always a card to consider.
I never played riddleform but I dislike that it's not a creature around half of the time, at least that's what I think how it plays.
I never played riddleform but I dislike that it's not a creature around half of the time, at least that's what I think how it plays.
I don't really like the play pattern with Riddleform, as you have to cast your spell before combat if you want to attack with it. Jeskai Elder I have played in my cube with some success: as Mondschwein says, it fits into more than one deck type, and even in the aggressive spellslinger decks the loot ability helps keep the spells flowing.
Edit: the Elder also gets bonus marks in my mind for depicting an older woman, and one with a great determined expression on her face.
Edit: the Elder also gets bonus marks in my mind for depicting an older woman, and one with a great determined expression on her face.
On the one hand, being a noncreature is great for the other prowess cards, however you won’t always be able to attack and it’s narrow in the decks that will include it.
So I like the Elder better.
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Prowess adjacent since a lot of times cantrips trigger prowess. The flash is nice with Blue’s interaction too. Might be too snowbally though.
So I like the Elder better.
?Prowess adjacent since a lot of times cantrips trigger prowess. The flash is nice with Blue’s interaction too. Might be too snowbally though.
I always liked to play the vandal, flash is one of my absolute favorite archetypes. It really depends on how easy it is for your blue section to actually draw cards or if you have a lot of cards that draw you a card every turn for no further investment (eg phyrexian arena or an unblockable looter il kor). Usually I didn't find it to be too snowbally if you have to put some work in, at least that's what I remember from a few years ago.
Yeah, without being super versed in playing spell slinger decks but, surely we have to assume access to cantrips or other ways of keeping your hand stocked with spells to cast? Otherwise the deck doesn't work
If you think the combination of flash, flying and being relatively easy to grow is a bit pushed for a two drop there are alternatives:
No flash here though
No flash here though
Spells matter red two drops
Which ones do you like and is electrostatic infantry very pushed
the ones I did not list here aren't there on purpose like firebrand archer, kiln fiend, that wall and the ward prowess dwarf. Infantry looks pretty strong to me? Never played it.
Bonus question how do you like harmonic prodigy? Looks a bit like a mono red veyran, voice of duality which I also consider for my izzet section.
Which ones do you like and is electrostatic infantry very pushed
the ones I did not list here aren't there on purpose like firebrand archer, kiln fiend, that wall and the ward prowess dwarf. Infantry looks pretty strong to me? Never played it.
Bonus question how do you like harmonic prodigy? Looks a bit like a mono red veyran, voice of duality which I also consider for my izzet section.
Harmonic Prodigy is a ton of fun, particularly with unusual effects like Toby, Beastie Befriender, Venser, Shaper Savant or Ignoble Hierarch. It is, however, a narrow card and, if you are strict, it probably shouldn't make it in anyone's cube. That said, it's a fun pick and you can slot it in Izzet.
Do you prefer that 2-drop to say noncreature spell or instant/sorcery?
So, my favorite would be Heartfire Immolator. An elegant design with a lot of agency for both players. My number two vote would go to Thermo Alchemist as I like the machine gun feeling.
Question: why do you like Flamebreather but not Firebrand Archer, who can attack for 2?
So, my favorite would be Heartfire Immolator. An elegant design with a lot of agency for both players. My number two vote would go to Thermo Alchemist as I like the machine gun feeling.
Question: why do you like Flamebreather but not Firebrand Archer, who can attack for 2?
Yeah the prodigy obviously is quite narrow even if there are a lot of shamans/wizards in my list. I also think that it's not going to make the cut.
@ravnic
Since there are going to be quite some tokens and ping damage in the cube I really like the 3 toughness on an aggressive two drop.
Noncreature/instant sorcery isn't going to be a big difference in this list, especially for red decks.
@ravnic
Since there are going to be quite some tokens and ping damage in the cube I really like the 3 toughness on an aggressive two drop.
Noncreature/instant sorcery isn't going to be a big difference in this list, especially for red decks.
I'd like my players to pay for repeatable sac fodder that is no chump blocker every turn. I don't know if the conscript too often is just a 1 drop aggressive creature that gets replayed from time to time instead of being used for sacrifice shenanigans. On the other hand I don't see many other decks wanting ReSkel. Opinions?
I think it really depends on whether or not you want your aristocrats cards to be playable elsewhere. I really like including cards like Cult Conscript and Bloodsoaked Champion because they can go into the all-in sacrifice deck, or they can just be a solid 1 drop for an aggro deck that occasionally gets recurred. I think the jackal pup style sac fodder is cool because it means that aristocrats decks can take a few different forms. In my cube you often see the more midrangey value sac decks but there's also leaner aggressive ones too. And I like it when players have to fight for picks. Nobody but the value sac deck wants to play Reassembling Skeleton.
Skeleton is also just not particularly strong, I think you can definitely build a power level where it's good but it's quite slow. I think if Cult Conscript is a reasonable card in your environment then Skeleton is probably a bit under the curve.
Skeleton is also just not particularly strong, I think you can definitely build a power level where it's good but it's quite slow. I think if Cult Conscript is a reasonable card in your environment then Skeleton is probably a bit under the curve.